HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

NYR- Chi/ NYR- Mtl

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-13-2013, 12:52 PM
  #51
Galchenyuk4habs
Registered User
 
Galchenyuk4habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montreal
Posts: 461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ginovegas View Post
Moen for Boyle+

Habs 4th line would be

Prust / Boyle / White-Armstrong
It does seem like both players need a change of scenerie, althought I would still not do this in a habs POV because, Moen can fight and Boyle doesn't bother even at his size(we saw that last year vs the Sens in the playoffs). I rather have toughness than size on my 4rth line. Boyle would replace Armstrong very nicely tough.

Is Bickel still avalaible?If so, Moen+Armstrong for Bickel+Boyle.

I would love to see Bickel pummel Campbell again

Galchenyuk4habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 01:48 PM
  #52
Kwayry
Take the damn deal
 
Kwayry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Plano
Country: United States
Posts: 2,914
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
I'll add to Olsen, you can have a 4th to go along with him.
Sorry, the value is not there because Olsen is a lefty, if he was a righty, it would be a no brainer.
Rangers can get value from other contenders.

Kwayry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 06:35 PM
  #53
vokiel
#NoTradesWithEDM
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Midgetland
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,675
vCash: 500
Moen will not be moved for picks. Montreal has 3 2nds in the next draft they don't need more late picks.

Edit: .... and 2 3rds...

vokiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 07:52 AM
  #54
Hawkguy
Hockey's Back!!
 
Hawkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 41,847
vCash: 500
3rd and 4th for Moener? Done. Solid PKer, but you can tell he's upset with his spot on the team right now.

Once Bourque comes back, his spot will be even lower.

Hawkguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 11:17 AM
  #55
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
I'll add to Olsen, you can have a 4th to go along with him.
My Ranger brethren and I often agree to disagree. IMO, if you profit on a transaction, if you realize an upgrade overall, you take it. Sometimes the benefit/upgrade is not immediate. Sometimes it is 2 steps back to go 5 steps forward. That is a legit component that discounts, but does not deny the benefit.

If a better deal is to be had, we should pursue it.
If not we should not reject Boyle for Olsen simply because, as noted in a sandwiched post, Olsen is a lefty not a righty, if he were it would be a no brainer.

You acquire more, and more quality assets. Once you have built enough, the added depth then enables you to add and swap from SURPLUS a lefty for a righty. To not add to surplus because a player is worth acquiring, but not 100% the ideal fit based on L-R or some other criteria is, IMO, foolish.

While I appreciate the 4th sweetener, I again suggest you help make a proposal they can't refuse.

Rangers add to Boyle
Hawks add to Olsen

Your side has shot down Christian Thomas for McNeil.

We need help at C; D, especially RD, preferably one with a cannon shot; and LW.

I understand you really want to avoid dealing from the parent deck as much as possible. What prospects/assets can you extend? What do we need for balance, whether that is talent balance or cap or # of contracts?

bernmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 12:06 PM
  #56
Hawkaholic
Registered User
 
Hawkaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,909
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
My Ranger brethren and I often agree to disagree. IMO, if you profit on a transaction, if you realize an upgrade overall, you take it. Sometimes the benefit/upgrade is not immediate. Sometimes it is 2 steps back to go 5 steps forward. That is a legit component that discounts, but does not deny the benefit.

If a better deal is to be had, we should pursue it.
If not we should not reject Boyle for Olsen simply because, as noted in a sandwiched post, Olsen is a lefty not a righty, if he were it would be a no brainer.

You acquire more, and more quality assets. Once you have built enough, the added depth then enables you to add and swap from SURPLUS a lefty for a righty. To not add to surplus because a player is worth acquiring, but not 100% the ideal fit based on L-R or some other criteria is, IMO, foolish.

While I appreciate the 4th sweetener, I again suggest you help make a proposal they can't refuse.

Rangers add to Boyle
Hawks add to Olsen

Your side has shot down Christian Thomas for McNeil.

We need help at C; D, especially RD, preferably one with a cannon shot; and LW.

I understand you really want to avoid dealing from the parent deck as much as possible. What prospects/assets can you extend? What do we need for balance, whether that is talent balance or cap or # of contracts?
I don't think there is a deal to be made, really.

Prospects not available for Boyle - Teravainen, Morin, Pirri, McNeill, Danault, Clendening, Johns, Hayes, Hayes

C's not available, Toews, Bolland, Shaw, Kruger

Dmen not available for Boyle - Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Leddy, Roszival, Oduya

LW not available for Boyle - Saad, Sharp, Stalberg, Bickell

So out of that, all we really have is - Beach, Flick, Ross, Olsen, Broadhursts', Stanton, Brookbank, Mayers, Montador, Carcillo, and maybe Frolik. 4th round pick or later.

Hawkaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 12:27 PM
  #57
iamitter
Thornton's Hen
 
iamitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
I don't think there is a deal to be made, really.

Prospects not available for Boyle - Teravainen, Morin, Pirri, McNeill, Danault, Clendening, Johns, Hayes, Hayes

C's not available, Toews, Bolland, Shaw, Kruger

Dmen not available for Boyle - Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Leddy, Roszival, Oduya

LW not available for Boyle - Saad, Sharp, Stalberg, Bickell

So out of that, all we really have is - Beach, Flick, Ross, Olsen, Broadhursts', Stanton, Brookbank, Mayers, Montador, Carcillo, and maybe Frolik. 4th round pick or later.
So basically nothing of value. Agreed that there is no deal to be made.

We traded a 3rd for Boyle when he was not an NHL player. We molded him into one. He's almost 57-58% on faceoffs. He can chip in goals. Gaustad was not much different and he garnered a first.

iamitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 12:31 PM
  #58
DevilChuk*
(not that -chuk)
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
So basically nothing of value. Agreed that there is no deal to be made.

We traded a 3rd for Boyle when he was not an NHL player. We molded him into one. He's almost 57-58% on faceoffs. He can chip in goals. Gaustad was not much different and he garnered a first.
For ***** sake, can we stop with this "but Gaustad got a first" crap?

That doesn't mean any marginal NHL player for the rest of NHL history will get a first.. one mistake doesn't set precedent.

You can think he may be worth the first (he's not) but please, use logic that doesn't include comparing him to Gaustad.

Boyle is not returning a first round pick. He's probably not returning a 2nd round pick either but that's possible with a good market.

DevilChuk* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 12:44 PM
  #59
Kwayry
Take the damn deal
 
Kwayry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Plano
Country: United States
Posts: 2,914
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilChuk View Post
For ***** sake, can we stop with this "but Gaustad got a first" crap?

That doesn't mean any marginal NHL player for the rest of NHL history will get a first.. one mistake doesn't set precedent.

You can think he may be worth the first (he's not) but please, use logic that doesn't include comparing him to Gaustad.

Boyle is not returning a first round pick. He's probably not returning a 2nd round pick either but that's possible with a good market.
Boyle's value is probably a late second. But in this market, I can absolutely see him get a late first.

Kwayry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 12:46 PM
  #60
iamitter
Thornton's Hen
 
iamitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilChuk View Post
For ***** sake, can we stop with this "but Gaustad got a first" crap?

That doesn't mean any marginal NHL player for the rest of NHL history will get a first.. one mistake doesn't set precedent.

You can think he may be worth the first (he's not) but please, use logic that doesn't include comparing him to Gaustad.

Boyle is not returning a first round pick. He's probably not returning a 2nd round pick either but that's possible with a good market.
Gaustad is not a marginal player. He's an excellent faceoff man who can contribute on both ends of the ice.

There is no way Boyle doesn't return at the very least a second rounder. 80% of 2nd round picks don't even MAKE it to the NHL.

iamitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 12:48 PM
  #61
DevilChuk*
(not that -chuk)
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Boyle's value is probably a late second. But in this market, I can absolutely see him get a late first.
I don't agree, but that's still a valid argument that I'd respect and listen to.

Telling me that "Well... last year... Gaustad got a first and Boyle > Gaustad, therefore by the transitive property.. Gaustad should get at least a first" isn't a valid argument. That's not how things work.

I doubt he gets a late first though. That's basically asking me right now if I'd trade Stefan Matteau (Devils 1st last year, 29th overall) for Boyle.. and I'm not sure if I would. You kind of know what you're getting with Boyle and while he's a very good defensive 3C, I'd rather take the risk that my 1st round pick would develop into something a little more.

1st rounders should ideally become 1st/2nd line players so unless Boyle is the last piece to the puzzle (I don't think many teams would see him as this), I think a GM would rather take a 1st rounder who has the potential to hit the top 6 and for the most part develop into decent players that you can throw in on the bottom 6. The pick may not end up better than Boyle but there's definitely more upside.

DevilChuk* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 12:54 PM
  #62
iamitter
Thornton's Hen
 
iamitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilChuk View Post
I don't agree, but that's still a valid argument that I'd respect and listen to.

Telling me that "Well... last year... Gaustad got a first and Boyle > Gaustad, therefore by the transitive property.. Gaustad should get at least a first" isn't a valid argument. That's not how things work.

I doubt he gets a late first though. That's basically asking me right now if I'd trade Stefan Matteau (Devils 1st last year, 29th overall) for Boyle.. and I'm not sure if I would. You kind of know what you're getting with Boyle and while he's a very good defensive 3C, I'd rather take the risk that my 1st round pick would develop into something a little more.

1st rounders should ideally become 1st/2nd line players so unless Boyle is the last piece to the puzzle (I don't think many teams would see him as this), I think a GM would rather take a 1st rounder who has the potential to hit the top 6 and for the most part develop into decent players that you can throw in on the bottom 6. The pick may not end up better than Boyle but there's definitely more upside.
Most first rounders drafted outside of the top 10-12 wind up as minor leaguers. Most of those who make it, wind up as low-end NHLers. Only a few make it as top-6 forwards or top-4 defensemen. If a GM can get someone in the second half of the first round who's almost definitely going to be a third liner, he usually jumps on that guy. By the time you get to the end of the first round, the prospect only has a 40% chance of making the NHL.

Someone like Boyle is a moderate success for a late first rounder.

iamitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 12:55 PM
  #63
DevilChuk*
(not that -chuk)
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
Gaustad is not a marginal player. He's an excellent faceoff man who can contribute on both ends of the ice.

There is no way Boyle doesn't return at the very least a second rounder. 80% of 2nd round picks don't even MAKE it to the NHL.
I was referring to Boyle, with a little hyperbole thrown in.

You don't get how GMs think of draft picks though. They don't consider the chances of picking a similar player with that draft pick, as in "What round can we pick up a Brian Boyle, that's what we'd give up for him." That would just be lateral movement that would delay a team's development by years each time.

They look at it as established player vs. potential player. Typically, the pick is the piece in a trade with more long-term upside (talking 1 v 1 trades, not blockbuster deals with picks involved). A GM is willing to trade an established player because he doesn't need his help ASAP but is willing to gamble on the pick turning into a player with more potential upside. Basically, giving up value now for a potential HIGHER value player later on. Make sense for both team.. one sacrificing the future for immediate help (cup run) and the other sacrificing the current (bottom feeder) for future help.

Boyle may get a 2nd but that has nothing to do with how many 2nd round players make the NHL. Ponikarovsky returned a 4th and a 7th.. how many players make it to the NHL from those rounds?

DevilChuk* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 12:57 PM
  #64
iamitter
Thornton's Hen
 
iamitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilChuk View Post
I was referring to Boyle, with a little hyperbole thrown in.

You don't get how GMs think of draft picks though. They don't consider the chances of picking a similar player with that draft pick, as in "What round can we pick up a Brian Boyle, that's what we'd give up for him." That would just be lateral movement that would delay a team's development by years each time.

They look at it as established player vs. potential player. Typically, the pick is the piece in a trade with more long-term upside (talking 1 v 1 trades, not blockbuster deals with picks involved). A GM is willing to trade an established player because he doesn't need his help ASAP but is willing to gamble on the pick turning into a player with more potential upside. Basically, giving up value now for a potential HIGHER value player later on. Make sense for both team.. one sacrificing the future for immediate help (cup run) and the other sacrificing the current (bottom feeder) for future help.

Boyle may get a 2nd but that has nothing to do with how many 2nd round players make the NHL. Ponikarovsky returned a 4th and a 7th.. how many players make it to the NHL from those rounds?
I realize that. But you stating that most first rounders are projected as top-6 forwards is extremely incorrect.

iamitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 12:58 PM
  #65
DevilChuk*
(not that -chuk)
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
Most first rounders drafted outside of the top 10-12 wind up as minor leaguers. Most of those who make it, wind up as low-end NHLers. Only a few make it as top-6 forwards or top-4 defensemen. If a GM can get someone in the second half of the first round who's almost definitely going to be a third liner, he usually jumps on that guy. By the time you get to the end of the first round, the prospect only has a 40% chance of making the NHL.

Someone like Boyle is a moderate success for a late first rounder.
40% chance of making the NHL is pretty good.. and if you're a team that develops talent well, that number is assuredly higher.

Simple question: Would you trade JT Miller (mid 1st round) for Boyle? Would you trade Chris Kreider (late 1st round) for Boyle? Michael Del Zotto (late 1st round)?

That's picks 15, 19 and 20. Teams that would trade for Boyle would be making a playoff push and if they aren't successful in the first round, would be picking right around there.

DevilChuk* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 01:01 PM
  #66
DevilChuk*
(not that -chuk)
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
I realize that. But you stating that most first rounders are projected as top-6 forwards is extremely incorrect.
Absolutely never said that.

I said ideally, they would be 1st/2nd liners as in GMs don't go into the 1st round looking for bottom 6 players. They pick based on potential to be a top 6 player or top 4 defender. I think you'd see someone with the upside to be a top 6 player go before the player guaranteed to be a 3rd line player.. risky pick but that upside is typically worth it.

DevilChuk* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 01:04 PM
  #67
iamitter
Thornton's Hen
 
iamitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilChuk View Post
40% chance of making the NHL is pretty good.. and if you're a team that develops talent well, that number is assuredly higher.

Simple question: Would you trade JT Miller (mid 1st round) for Boyle? Would you trade Chris Kreider (late 1st round) for Boyle? Michael Del Zotto (late 1st round)?

That's picks 15, 19 and 20. Teams that would trade for Boyle would be making a playoff push and if they aren't successful in the first round, would be picking right around there.
I consider late first round picks 25-30. 15-20 is percentiles 50-66, right around the middle.

Also, you pick and chose current players who have shown they can play in the NHL. Kreider could still turn out to be nothing more than a third liner. Miller was a safe pick, who has limited upside probably not more than 50 points. He's already exceeded expectations for a 15th overall pick.

For every Del Zotto, there are way more Sanguinneti's, John Moore's, Pickard's and Esposito's.

iamitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 01:05 PM
  #68
Kwayry
Take the damn deal
 
Kwayry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Plano
Country: United States
Posts: 2,914
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilChuk View Post
I don't agree, but that's still a valid argument that I'd respect and listen to.

Telling me that "Well... last year... Gaustad got a first and Boyle > Gaustad, therefore by the transitive property.. Gaustad should get at least a first" isn't a valid argument. That's not how things work.

I doubt he gets a late first though. That's basically asking me right now if I'd trade Stefan Matteau (Devils 1st last year, 29th overall) for Boyle.. and I'm not sure if I would. You kind of know what you're getting with Boyle and while he's a very good defensive 3C, I'd rather take the risk that my 1st round pick would develop into something a little more.

1st rounders should ideally become 1st/2nd line players so unless Boyle is the last piece to the puzzle (I don't think many teams would see him as this), I think a GM would rather take a 1st rounder who has the potential to hit the top 6 and for the most part develop into decent players that you can throw in on the bottom 6. The pick may not end up better than Boyle but there's definitely more upside.
If team A and team B are rivals, they both need a defensive 3C that can win FO and are both cup favorites, don't you think they will make sure they and not the other team gets him. So, yes if there is a market for him, he will absolutely get a first from the top contenders who are loaded with prospects (You can guess who I am thinking of ).
Devils not being one (heavy cup favorite), I wouldn't blame you for keeping your prospects and picks.

Kwayry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 01:06 PM
  #69
iamitter
Thornton's Hen
 
iamitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilChuk View Post
Absolutely never said that.

I said ideally, they would be 1st/2nd liners as in GMs don't go into the 1st round looking for bottom 6 players. They pick based on potential to be a top 6 player or top 4 defender. I think you'd see someone with the upside to be a top 6 player go before the player guaranteed to be a 3rd line player.. risky pick but that upside is typically worth it.
That's just not true...
Many teams pick on safety and not potential.

You think the Devils picked Matteau because they saw a future 1st liner? He was a pretty safe bet to make the NHL. The big kids with upside go in the top ten. You can get loads of smallish forwards with skill in the later rounds, 95% of whom bust.

iamitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 01:14 PM
  #70
DevilChuk*
(not that -chuk)
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
I consider late first round picks 25-30. 15-20 is percentiles 50-66, right around the middle.

Also, you pick and chose current players who have shown they can play in the NHL. Kreider could still turn out to be nothing more than a third liner. Miller was a safe pick, who has limited upside probably not more than 50 points. He's already exceeded expectations for a 15th overall pick.

For every Del Zotto, there are way more Sanguinneti's, John Moore's, Pickard's and Esposito's.
That's great, but teams don't know where they are picking when they would pick up Brian Boyle for a playoff run. You can bet they are considering the value of the pick being anywhere between 15-30.

If you want a late 1st round pick for him.. you can look for 25-30 but you're waiting until after the draft where is value decreases relative to the trade deadline.

I didn't pick and choose anything btw.. I just went back to the Rangers last few 1st round picks and asked if you would trade them for Boyle. Figured it'd be better than asking you about another team's prospects..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
If team A and team B are rivals, they both need a defensive 3C that can win FO and are both cup favorites, don't you think they will make sure they and not the other team gets him. So, yes if there is a market for him, he will absolutely get a first from the top contenders who are loaded with prospects (You can guess who I am thinking of ).
Devils not being one (heavy cup favorite), I wouldn't blame you for keeping your prospects and picks.
Lovely, I was waiting for my team to be brought into this as typical.

But that's a pretty unique situation.. I mean if teams A and teams B are rivals, they both need a 4th line RW who shoots left-handed, can fight and plays good pre-game music.. oh and they are both cup favorites.. is that player getting a 1st round pick too?

It took decades for the Gaustads of the NHL to be dealt for a 1st.. it doesn't happen too often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
That's just not true...
Many teams pick on safety and not potential.

You think the Devils picked Matteau because they saw a future 1st liner? He was a pretty safe bet to make the NHL. The big kids with upside go in the top ten. You can get loads of smallish forwards with skill in the later rounds, 95% of whom bust.
I think they picked him because they think he can be a very good 2nd line player. I don't think they picked him because they think he is a sure bet to be a 3rd line winger.

It's a balance between safety and potential but typically in the first round, you're going for the 1st/2nd line players not the safe bets to be a 3rd line center. Obviously the risk varies given certain factors (team needs, how close the team is to competing, etc.).

DevilChuk* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 01:15 PM
  #71
DevilChuk*
(not that -chuk)
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,879
vCash: 500
And about Matteau..

Heck, I wouldn't trade him for Brian Boyle and he was the 29th overall pick. That's pretty late in the first round.

I would much rather have the player Matteau is ALREADY + the potential Matteau has than Boyle.

Subtracting Matteau for Boyle isn't helping much in the present and it certainly isn't helping in the future.

DevilChuk* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 01:17 PM
  #72
iamitter
Thornton's Hen
 
iamitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilChuk View Post
That's great, but teams don't know where they are picking when they would pick up Brian Boyle for a playoff run. You can bet they are considering the value of the pick being anywhere between 15-30.

If you want a late 1st round pick for him.. you can look for 25-30 but you're waiting until after the draft where is value decreases relative to the trade deadline.

I didn't pick and choose anything btw.. I just went back to the Rangers last few 1st round picks and asked if you would trade them for Boyle. Figured it'd be better than asking you about another team's prospects..
Well, we've had extremely good success in the 1st round lately, much better than the average team.

Quote:
I think they picked him because they think he can be a very good 2nd line player. I don't think they picked him because they think he is a sure bet to be a 3rd line winger.

It's a balance between safety and potential but typically in the first round, you're going for the 1st/2nd line players not the safe bets to be a 3rd line center. Obviously the risk varies given certain factors (team needs, how close the team is to competing, etc.).
I just don't see it. I think they picked him exactly because they knew he was sure fire great 3rd liner.

Same with Miller for us. I don't think the Rangers ever expected him to be anymore than a 2nd/3rd line tweener center.

iamitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 01:18 PM
  #73
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
I don't think there is a deal to be made, really.

Prospects not available for Boyle - Teravainen, Morin, Pirri, McNeill, Danault, Clendening, Johns, Hayes, Hayes

C's not available, Toews, Bolland, Shaw, Kruger

Dmen not available for Boyle - Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Leddy, Roszival, Oduya

LW not available for Boyle - Saad, Sharp, Stalberg, Bickell

So out of that, all we really have is - Beach, Flick, Ross, Olsen, Broadhursts', Stanton, Brookbank, Mayers, Montador, Carcillo, and maybe Frolik. 4th round pick or later.
Thank you for a thoughtful and extensive response.

Having done the due diligence to confirm there is no other player(s) NY could add which would have appeal as to the overall parameters of an expanded deal, I agree that I don't think there is a expanded deal to be made.

As to the original deal, NY should keep looking for best offer, but at this point I believe we should do something around Boyle for Olsen.

I accept Boyle for Olsen or Boyle for Olsen + 4th.

If we can agree on what minor leaguers Rangers would throw in, like, say, Brandon Mashinter and Mike Vernace, I would consider expanding the core to include Kyle Beach, Steve Montador, or Shawn LaLonde (the latter 2 being righties).

On a separate ? with an outside chance of merging 2 deals into one larger deal, what would the price be for Clendening (a righty)? Obviously, not Boyle.

bernmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 01:22 PM
  #74
DevilChuk*
(not that -chuk)
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
Well, we've had extremely good success in the 1st round lately, much better than the average team.



I just don't see it. I think they picked him exactly because they knew he was sure fire great 3rd liner.

Same with Miller for us. I don't think the Rangers ever expected him to be anymore than a 2nd/3rd line tweener center.
But you're asking a team to gamble away that potential success for Boyle.. I'd rather take my chances and see if I can hit a good pick like you say the Rangers have the last few years.

Would you trade Skjei or whatever for Boyle?

HF gave him a 7C meaning:

"7. Second-Line Forward/ No. 3-4 Defenseman / Journeyman No. 1 Goaltender players not quite good enough to play on the top line or pairing on a regular basis, but still possessing enough talent to contribute offensively, defend with some authority, or competently play the goaltender's position for long stretches.

Defense: Filip Kuba, Christian Ehrhoff, Henrik Tallinder
Forward: Andy McDonald, Ryan Malone
Goaltender: Chris Mason, Dwayne Roloson, Mike Smith"

"C May reach potential, could drop 2 ratings has shown some flashes, but may ultimately not have what it takes to reach his potential. The potential rating is multiplied by 80 percent for depth chart purposes to show the uncertainty of a player reaching his potential."

DevilChuk* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 01:24 PM
  #75
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
So basically nothing of value. Agreed that there is no deal to be made.

We traded a 3rd for Boyle when he was not an NHL player. We molded him into one. He's almost 57-58% on faceoffs. He can chip in goals. Gaustad was not much different and he garnered a first.
There is nothing of value as to an expanded deal, as I suggested. Thus there is NO EXPANDED deal.

There is a deal to be made, Olsen for Boyle in principle, which has been upgraded to Olsen for Boyle + 4th.

If we get a better offer, by all means, no sacred cows.

If we don't, we should do Olsen for Boyle +.
The fact that Olsen is not righty and thus an ideal fit is not more important than upgrading by adding more total value.

bernmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:33 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.