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[OTT/MIN] Senators trade a 6th round pick in 2014 for Matt Kassian.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:23 PM
  #251
TeamRenzo
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Originally Posted by Serbian Power View Post
Knee-jerk reaction to last night's fight by Weicioch?
I doubt it was a reaction to Weicoch's fight, I think it was more in response to Durzynski's fight.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:25 PM
  #252
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Eager is on Waivers today. Should have just picked him up.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:26 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Trigun View Post
Eager is on Waivers today. Should have just picked him up.
If he would have been on waivers yesterday, sure

Also has 1.1M next year

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:34 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
I thought it was fairly classless (if not trolling) of a mod to say a player only has 2 brain cells.
So he thinks Neil's a dummy? so what?
Are we allowed to comment on say Phillips' novice caliber shot?
or that we think Roy's a whiny diving baby?
or that Scott Parker is a useless goon?

Its a game, and we are fans, including the mods - how anyone could take anything like that personally or consider it classless/trolling etc is absurd to me.

And on the subject of class - can we all please acknowledge that there is a considerable difference between hockey "class" and real world class?
It makes me laugh to hear of all these classy hockey players simply because they give a decent interview.
The vast majority are not 'classy' individuals in any context.

They are awesome hockey players and lets leave it at that.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:49 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Hagelin's hit has absolutely nothing to do with how the tone of the series changed after Carkner gave Boyle a beating. It's not like Hagelin is a goon that was going around running people -- it was just an unfortunate situation. That kind of stuff happens. He got suspended for it and that's that.

I was responding to your assertion that 'deterrence doesn't exist' or something to that effect. Which just isn't true. There are always going to be psychos that act outside of the norm -- most guys in the league are going to think twice about taking that late hit, or throwing that questionable hit if they know that Kassian is going to be the next guy out on the ice.
So fighting doesn't deter dirty play, except when it does?

Here's a more believable explanation of an NHL player's mindset - players don't think about Matt Kassian at all. They play the game as they would any other game. And if they do find themselves on the ice with him they probably have the puck on their stick.

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03-13-2013, 12:55 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Wham City View Post
So fighting doesn't deter dirty play, except when it does?
Just like Police don't deter crime except when they do.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:57 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Wham City View Post
So fighting doesn't deter dirty play, except when it does?

Here's a more believable explanation of an NHL player's mindset - players don't think about Matt Kassian at all. They play the game as they would any other game. And if they do find themselves on the ice with him they probably have the puck on their stick.
Or it's practice and they're on his team... Probably more likely.

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Old
03-13-2013, 12:57 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Wham City View Post
So fighting doesn't deter dirty play, except when it does?

Here's a more believable explanation of an NHL player's mindset - players don't think about Matt Kassian at all. They play the game as they would any other game. And if they do find themselves on the ice with him they probably have the puck on their stick.
Do you think Carkner changed momentum in that NYR series? If not, I question your knowledge of hockey.

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03-13-2013, 01:04 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Just like Police don't deter crime except when they do.
Goons are just like the police, exactly. Same tactics, methods and punishments.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:09 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by H2ODP View Post
Do you think Carkner changed momentum in that NYR series? If not, I question your knowledge of hockey.
Carkner could play a little hockey, that's fairly important in this discussion.
you know what else changes momentum a guy with limited skills getting caught on the ice at the wrong time.
you know what else changes the momentum? not be able to roll 4 lines because you can no longer trust the 4th one.

There is a good argument to be made for having a guy who can take care of business there is a way better argument for a guy who can take care of business, take a regular shift and forecheck the crap out of the other team....like say Neil.
Lets not pretend there is no downside to having Kassian take up a roster spot. (altough maybe less so right now with all the injuries its not like huge skill is being removed.)

hopefully he comes in and shows his stuff and surprises!

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:13 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Wham City View Post
Goons are just like the police, exactly. Same tactics, methods and punishments.
Have you ever played sports before? Honest question.

Anyone that has played sports at any level (any sport really, but physical sports especially) can attest to the mental aspect of a game being almost as important, if not just as important, as the physical side.

As a player in any sport you are more likely to rush decisions, make mistakes, and generally play more tentatively if you think that you are in danger of being hurt, or if you think someone is going to do something illegal against you. In soccer of someone keeps tackling recklessly and isn't getting called by the refs you are going to try and get the ball away sooner. If you get hit by an unlucky hop in baseball you are going to be more tentative the next time you try to field a ball like that. If someone is taking runs at people all over the ice you are going to be very wary of that when you are on the ice.

The same mentality applies to people that are doing that act. They are more likely to take runs at you, slash, elbow, etc. if they aren't afraid of the consequences. Reffing and discipline has certainly proven to be arbitrary at best. However, most people don't like being punched in the head by someone that is 6'5 230 lbs (might just be me).

This is assuming that someone thinks rationally of course.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:14 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Tyskie View Post
I remember a similar board-wide reaction to the Methot trade. Now I'm not saying he's going to blow us away like Meth, but give the guy a few games in a Sens sweater before writing him off as a scrub.
I don't think it's a question of whether Kassian will do his job, it's more the philosophy of playing such a player for few minutes in a game with a single purpose than playing a good 4th line player for 10 or more minutes.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:17 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
Carkner could play a little hockey, that's fairly important in this discussion.
you know what else changes momentum a guy with limited skills getting caught on the ice at the wrong time.
you know what else changes the momentum? not be able to roll 4 lines because you can no longer trust the 4th one.

There is a good argument to be made for having a guy who can take care of business there is a way better argument for a guy who can take care of business, take a regular shift and forecheck the crap out of the other team....like say Neil.
Lets not pretend there is no downside to having Kassian take up a roster spot. (altough maybe less so right now with all the injuries its not like huge skill is being removed.)

hopefully he comes in and shows his stuff and surprises!
Matt Carkner didn't even play for the rest of game 2, or in game 3, I fail to see how Carkner taking a regular shift added to the momentum shift in that NYR series. It was the act of pummeling Boyle itself and not his actual playing ablity (Although having Carkner over someone like Orr is way more valuable I will agree)..

Do you remember when McGrattan dropped Domi back in 05-06? Same thing. That fight ended years of Leafs physical dominance over Ottawa and changed the way we played Toronto.

Fighters have their place and you can't argue they change momentum in certain situations. At the very least you have to be happy that we won't have to see Phillips and Wiercioch fighting from now on.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:18 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by H2ODP View Post
Do you think Carkner changed momentum in that NYR series? If not, I question your knowledge of hockey.
Nope. But I do think Neil fighting Prust swung the "momentum" back to New York in games 6 and 7. It's why our defence was so bad in those games, fighting is magic like that.

It seems like a lot of people are surprised Ottawa took it to 7 games if not for Carkner knocking out Boyle. Which doesn't really make sense to me when head to head in the regular season they were the better team.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:20 PM
  #265
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This is a premeditated move before we play Buffalo. The thing that most people don't realize is that enforcers smell blood in the water and prey on weakness - almost exactly like bullies. They see Phillips and Weircioch having to stand up for their teammates. They see guys like Dziurzynski getting knocked out cold in their first NHL fight. It's almost 80% mental. They feel like they have the psychological edge against a team with no true fighters even before the puck drops. That's a dangerous scenario for a team already dealing with the adversity of multiple key injuries throughout the roster. You can't have guys like Scott feel like it's going to be an uncontested **** show before the game even happens. You put a guy like Kassian in the lineup and suddenly your attitude shifts just slightly because Kassian is a guy who can handle himself against any heavy. Do fighters act as deterrents on-ice? Not in a tangible way that can be measured. But they will give your skill guys a lift knowing that someone's got their back. And, for me, that's worth paying a 6th round pick for.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:30 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Have you ever played sports before? Honest question.

Anyone that has played sports at any level (any sport really, but physical sports especially) can attest to the mental aspect of a game being almost as important, if not just as important, as the physical side.

As a player in any sport you are more likely to rush decisions, make mistakes, and generally play more tentatively if you think that you are in danger of being hurt, or if you think someone is going to do something illegal against you.
So Kassian playing 5 minutes a night is going to alter decision making up and down the oppositions lineup? This guy sounds incredible, surprised he's only making league minimum with that rare skill.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:32 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
I can't believe Buffalo and Vancouver gave up on this guy, what a steal for a 6th rounder.
Wrong Kassian...

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:38 PM
  #268
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I like the move. Willing to give Kassian a chance to show what he can do. If he plays a simple game and can play a bit, while providing the ability to go with anybody in the league, it brings Ottawa's young guys that sense of safety that can be very important.

From all indications he is a great team guy and person as well, could fit in very well on this team. Pretty young too. I have a feeling sens fans will enjoy having Kassian on the 4th line after a couple of scraps against Toronto and Boston.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:41 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Wham City View Post
So Kassian playing 5 minutes a night is going to alter decision making up and down the oppositions lineup? This guy sounds incredible, surprised he's only making league minimum with that rare skill.
So you haven't played sports before. That's all you had to say. Thanks for the discussion without any real substance.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:44 PM
  #270
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Great, now we don't have to watch Phillips and Wiercioch embarrass themselves and give the other team a powerplay.

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03-13-2013, 01:47 PM
  #271
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Carkner seems like the perfect enforcer. Can play, and he'll find you, and he will pummel you. Is there a forward version of him?

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:48 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
Yeah, in fact he's so effective, his role has been taken over by Konopka.
He may be fine here but can we stop pretending that this is a potential star 4th liner about to break out that we stole from Minny?

Mods take note? of what? of people with differing views who dont think its suitable for mods to have an opinion?
yes, i agree...mods take note.
I don't believe for one second Konopka replaced Kassian in the enforcer role.

What is more likely is that a 4th line consisting of ZK and MK just wasn't feasible.

Given Konoka's usefulness in the face-off circle, his new 2 year contract, nobody should be surprised a 4th liner on a 2-way lost out.

IMO Kassian will do fine on the Sens 4th line.

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03-13-2013, 01:52 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
So you haven't played sports before. That's all you had to say. Thanks for the discussion without any real substance.
Who hasn't played sports? It didn't even think it was a serious question so I chose to ignore it.

Just personally, the presence of bad players on my team never gave me more confidence.

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Old
03-13-2013, 01:52 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
I don't believe for one second Konopka replaced Kassian in the enforcer role.

What is more likely is that a 4th line consisting of ZK and MK just wasn't feasible.

Given Konoka's usefulness in the face-off circle, his new 2 year contract, nobody should be surprised a 4th liner on a 2-way lost out.

IMO Kassian will do fine on the Sens 4th line.
When they had Pierre on the morning show today he said the Rupp trade probably made Kassian redundant. So yeah I would agree Konopka was not the reason behind this move.

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03-13-2013, 01:56 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
So he thinks Neil's a dummy? so what?
Are we allowed to comment on say Phillips' novice caliber shot?
or that we think Roy's a whiny diving baby?
or that Scott Parker is a useless goon?

Its a game, and we are fans, including the mods - how anyone could take anything like that personally or consider it classless/trolling etc is absurd to me.

And on the subject of class - can we all please acknowledge that there is a considerable difference between hockey "class" and real world class?
It makes me laugh to hear of all these classy hockey players simply because they give a decent interview.
The vast majority are not 'classy' individuals in any context.

They are awesome hockey players and lets leave it at that.
That's a great post about how everyone is entitled to an opinion while belittling mine.

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