HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

[OTT/MIN] Senators trade a 6th round pick in 2014 for Matt Kassian.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-13-2013, 03:49 PM
  #301
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
you're having two conversations here and one of them isnt with me.
you're debating with someone else about fighting in hockey, the conversation im having is the value of a UFC fighter on skates vs a guy who takes a regular shift.
A guy who takes a regular shift and provides the same deterrent/creates a fear of revenge etc is a very useful player since he's not disrupting the rest of the team by forcing the juggling of lines throughout a game.

A "Break Glass in case of Emergency" guy who sits on the bench for 58 minutes is not useful and IMO detrimental to team success.
I suppose you can take the position that its better than nothing but barely.
Id trade a lot more to get another Neil, a player who would not just give us the balance people want to be able to respond but also acutally make our team better.
Agree in principle, but a 4th liner sitting in the penalty box or on the bench really has little effect on the lines considering the average 4th line player plays 5-7 minutes a game 5 on 5.

How many other Neil's are there and what are do you think the potential is to get one if he exists?

While it is fine to talk about the ideal, it is pointless in the real world unless it has some opportunity to be achieved. Teams that have players like Neil aren't about to trade them any time soon.


Last edited by Holdurbreathe: 03-13-2013 at 04:02 PM.
Holdurbreathe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 03:55 PM
  #302
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I'm wondering if all these people ******** on Kassian have even watched him play much? Maybe he has tools that can be used to mould him into a defensive, energy winger that can play 8 - 10 minutes a night while also being the guy that can pound on whoever needs/deserves it. He's not exactly old.
I think you already know the answer to this question.

This is no different than the people that claimed Methot is no more than a 6/7 guy when that trade went down.

Holdurbreathe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 04:00 PM
  #303
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jeremy View Post
Enforcer defenseman gives you more options though. You can have him out with your 1st line of forwards if the other team has its checking line out there.
Agreed, however losing a D for 5 - 15 minutes places a greater load on the D than losing a 4th liner for that amount of time.

Like everything, there are pros and cons.

Holdurbreathe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 04:21 PM
  #304
The Expert
Registered Expert
 
The Expert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ottawa
Country: Jersey
Posts: 11,604
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jeremy View Post
Enforcer defenseman gives you more options though. You can have him out with your 1st line of forwards if the other team has its checking line out there.
Yeah, the amount of people here who don't see the positives of having an enforcer type on D is staggering. Was one of the things that made Carkner so valuable.

The Expert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 04:23 PM
  #305
SilverSeven
Registered User
 
SilverSeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,225
vCash: 500
So we got the fighter who lost his spot to the fighter who can actually play hockey that the Sens didnt resign for some reason that no one understands.

Okay. Really wish we had just kept Konopka.

SilverSeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 04:23 PM
  #306
bert
Registered User
 
bert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,858
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Stupid trade. Horrible, because

1-Kassian can't play hockey and is worse than about 20 or more forwards the Sens have playing pro in NA
2-Mark Stone, Mikael Wikstrand, etc.
3-He could have been picked up on waivers.

Stupid Murray is stupid
You managed to contradict yourself in 4 lines of text... Good job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
I think you already know the answer to this question.

This is no different than the people that claimed Methot is no more than a 6/7 guy when that trade went down.
Sounds familiar.... No wait Kubas better HAHA

bert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 04:25 PM
  #307
bert
Registered User
 
bert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,858
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSeven View Post
So we got the fighter who lost his spot to the fighter who can actually play hockey that the Sens didnt resign for some reason that no one understands.

Okay. Really wish we had just kept Konopka.
Konopka isnt a real heavy Kassian is. Ben Eager is on waivers right now id love to see him picked up he can actually play hockey is an unreal skater and is from Ottawa.

bert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 04:28 PM
  #308
SilverSeven
Registered User
 
SilverSeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,225
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wham City View Post
So fighting doesn't deter dirty play, except when it does?

Here's a more believable explanation of an NHL player's mindset - players don't think about Matt Kassian at all. They play the game as they would any other game. And if they do find themselves on the ice with him they probably have the puck on their stick.
This goes against pretty much everythign players have ever said on the subject. They constantly mention being aware of who they are on the ice with...they say it for scorers, big hitters, dirty players, and enforcers. Hell, just look at the responses of players when talking about Cooke/Karlsson. A common theme was "you have to know who is on the ice"

SilverSeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 04:52 PM
  #309
ChiassonTale
Registered User
 
ChiassonTale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Regin and Daugavins have only played more TOI/game than Stone and Grant. Kassian is a big guy, and there has to have been a reason at the time he was taken in the 2nd round of the draft. I'm sure he could be moulded into a PK specialist. He can bring more to the table than those two.
Seeing as their minutes per game exceeds Kassian's career high (all on sub-par Wild teams) by a wide margin, I'm not sure how it can be concluded that Kassian will be more effective. It seems like TOI would be a poor choice of stats to use to promote Kassian over either Regin or Daugavins.

I'd be thrilled if Kassian could become a good PKer but I'm not sure why you think that he could. He has literally never touched the ice in the NHL on the PK.

If you could name one other heavyweight who has become a really good PKer like Regin or Daug I'd be interested to hear who they are. I honestly can't think of one outside of maybe Matt Carkner and I would doubt they have ever been traded for a 6th rounder.

I hope the guy does well and can contribute more than fighting to this team. Even if he only does fight he's still worth a 6th rounder at least. I have no objection to this trade, I just feel that to say he's going to be more effective than either Regin (23 points in his last 73 NHL games and good defensively) or Daugavins (the top SHTOI/game forward on the league's 2nd ranked PK unit) is premature to say the least.

Just MHO.

ChiassonTale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 05:10 PM
  #310
Curtinho
YNWA
 
Curtinho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,292
vCash: 500
Yeah but you can see what I said. I didn't say he would be more effective; I said that he could be. We've seen what Regin and Daugavins can do. Neither of them are sticking on this team when it's healthy and definitely not moving forward (they can't even stick on the team right now).

I think if they focus on his skating and making him a defensive specialist there's potential there for him to be a useful every day player. If not he can at least still be an enforcer...someone that we can throw out there when we really need some toughness and energy.

Curtinho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 05:25 PM
  #311
BK201
Registered User
 
BK201's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,276
vCash: 500
^ exactly guys like Regin and Kdaug barely out produce Kassian. If Kassian can play a good defensive game it's a great move for more than just toughness. Let's hope he's not too slow.

BK201 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 05:40 PM
  #312
Xspyrit
Registered User
 
Xspyrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal, Canada
Country: Monaco
Posts: 14,449
vCash: 1000
I'm not sure if the Ottawa Senators franchise will ever recover from losing that 6th round pick.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
I think you already know the answer to this question.

This is no different than the people that claimed Methot is no more than a 6/7 guy when that trade went down.
My membership on HF lives for these posts. The amount of crow available is huge and the quality looks delicious, too bad those "people" never eat it. "Old timers" just know that those "people" are preparing a big plate of crow for themselves with their ridiculous positions. It's just a matter of time before the plate is ready to be served

PS : I have not really read this thread, but it's not like I need to do it to know


Last edited by Xspyrit: 03-13-2013 at 05:48 PM.
Xspyrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 05:43 PM
  #313
Wham City
Registered User
 
Wham City's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Whistler
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,312
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSeven View Post
This goes against pretty much everythign players have ever said on the subject. They constantly mention being aware of who they are on the ice with...they say it for scorers, big hitters, dirty players, and enforcers. Hell, just look at the responses of players when talking about Cooke/Karlsson. A common theme was "you have to know who is on the ice"
Yes everyone is game planning against Kassian + he's also in their heads and they're peeing their pants.

Wham City is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 05:55 PM
  #314
Ice-Tray
Registered User
 
Ice-Tray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,841
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wham City View Post
Yes everyone is game planning against Kassian + he's also in their heads and they're peeing their pants.
But what if there was some form of realistic effect as opposed to the hyperbole that you enjoy posting. Is that even possible?

Ice-Tray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 06:03 PM
  #315
Curtinho
YNWA
 
Curtinho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wham City View Post
Yes everyone is game planning against Kassian + he's also in their heads and they're peeing their pants.
Why don't we just put it this way.

Players, coaches, GMs, analysts and journalists all agree that toughness, enforcers and energy all have a big impact on the game. It's that simple. Hockey people that live, breathe and **** hockey know the value in having guys like that on the ice doing what they do. They know how it affects the teams and players on the ice a lot better than we do.

That's enough for me to recognize that the logic behind it is sound. I trust their judgement and experience in this facet of the game.

Curtinho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 06:10 PM
  #316
Tundraman
GoneCountry
 
Tundraman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: North
Posts: 6,676
vCash: 500
Bryan Murray prefers giving his coach another type of asset to use. He'll let him decide how and when to deploy that asset. Better to be well equipped for various situations than to find yourself wanting.

Tundraman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 06:28 PM
  #317
Wham City
Registered User
 
Wham City's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Whistler
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,312
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Why don't we just put it this way.

Players, coaches, GMs, analysts and journalists all agree that toughness, enforcers and energy all have a big impact on the game. It's that simple. Hockey people that live, breathe and **** hockey know the value in having guys like that on the ice doing what they do. They know how it affects the teams and players on the ice a lot better than we do.

That's enough for me to recognize that the logic behind it is sound. I trust their judgement and experience in this facet of the game.
I agree, monolithic agreement in hockey on the value of enforcers. It's why you see so many in the playoffs when the games matter.

Wham City is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 06:31 PM
  #318
Wham City
Registered User
 
Wham City's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Whistler
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,312
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice-Tray View Post
But what if there was some form of realistic effect as opposed to the hyperbole that you enjoy posting. Is that even possible?
Plenty of people go farther than that with the whole "prevents injuries' spiel.

I thought I was being quite charitable.

Wham City is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 06:37 PM
  #319
Qward
Because! That's why!
 
Qward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Behind you, look out
Posts: 14,091
vCash: 500
"Compensation

A team who makes a successful claim for a player on waivers must compensate the team giving up the player for purchasing the player's contract. The prices are set out in Article 13.16 (a) of the CBA, and are based on years of service and position. Basically they range from $3,375 US (any player with more than 9 years experience) to $90,000 (a goaltender with 2 years experience)."

Maybe Melnyk is being cheap. A 6th round pick is free.

Qward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 07:57 PM
  #320
sensageddon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 377
vCash: 500
Can you go punch Colby Armstrong in the face please.

sensageddon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 01:31 PM
  #321
Berserker*
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,671
vCash: 500
Has he got his jersey number yet? Please tell me he is taking #69.

Berserker* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 01:54 PM
  #322
Johnny Hanson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,501
vCash: 500
Kassian just told Terry Marcotte that he's not here to play patty cake. Might be the line of the year.

Johnny Hanson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 02:01 PM
  #323
Mark Effin Stone
Jävla grisapa!
 
Mark Effin Stone's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,992
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post
Has he got his jersey number yet? Please tell me he is taking #69.
Yes #28

Mark Effin Stone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 03:23 PM
  #324
aragorn
YES WE CAN
 
aragorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Azores
Posts: 12,092
vCash: 500
It's unbeleivable what some people write, Murray has done great with this franchise. He has restocked a depleted organization with a number of quality prospects, he has three of the best goalies in the NHL. He has a Norris winner on defence which he drafted & not only is Ottawa in a very good playoff position but his farm team is fighting for first overall in the AHL with a depleted roster.

He hired Paul Maclean, he hired Luke Richardson & he is showing the hockey world how deep this organization is. IMO he has done the best job as a GM in the NHL in the last few yrs, he has the best coach in the NHL, he has the best coach in the AHL & he has some of the best scouts/management in the NHL. What more do people want from this guy? All this because he traded for an enforcer is ridiculous & shows a complete lack of understanding hockey at this level.

aragorn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 03:50 PM
  #325
Magix
Registered User
 
Magix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,509
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
It's unbeleivable what some people write, Murray has done great with this franchise. He has restocked a depleted organization with a number of quality prospects, he has three of the best goalies in the NHL. He has a Norris winner on defence which he drafted & not only is Ottawa in a very good playoff position but his farm team is fighting for first overall in the AHL with a depleted roster.

He hired Paul Maclean, he hired Luke Richardson & he is showing the hockey world how deep this organization is. IMO he has done the best job as a GM in the NHL in the last few yrs, he has the best coach in the NHL, he has the best coach in the AHL & he has some of the best scouts/management in the NHL. What more do people want from this guy? All this because he traded for an enforcer is ridiculous & shows a complete lack of understanding hockey at this level.
But but but but...think about it...we lost a 6th ROUNDER

Who cares if hes done an exceptional job reconstructing the team from the destruction muckler caused.

Murray traded a 6th ROUNDER think about it... 2014 will have 6 or 7 Crosbys available from the 150th pick onward

Magix is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:23 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.