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Act II: 27-18-3 Playoffs!!!....we talkin about Playoffs??!?!

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04-22-2013, 01:03 PM
  #651
AlexBrovechkin8
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I don't watch any Habs games except when they're against us or on NBCSN but they are just a soft looking team. Their only "grit" seems isolated to stick work and cheap shots. Is Emelin a better defenseman than Erksine? Again, I admittedly have no idea. I just know they look weak and soft.

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04-22-2013, 01:23 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by AlexBrovechkin8 View Post
I don't watch any Habs games except when they're against us or on NBCSN but they are just a soft looking team. Their only "grit" seems isolated to stick work and cheap shots. Is Emelin a better defenseman than Erksine? Again, I admittedly have no idea. I just know they look weak and soft.
Emelin has a lot of upside and is young. He is good from what I've seen. But to Montreal he is even more valuable since they don't have another dman like him on their roster. In fact they don't have much grit on their roster outside of him.

The idea is that you want synergistic pieces when building a team. You need some defensively responsible forwards, some puck moving dmen, some scorers, some passers, some guys that combine multiple traits. some hitters, some agitators etc.

You need roleplayers to do their part as much as you need your top guns to do theirs.

We have a lot of mobile dmen who are good puck movers but outside of Erskine we have no dman who can bring pain unless you count Oleksy but he's not as good as #4.

I wouldn't want a team with 6 John Erskine's on defense anymore than I'd want a team with 6 Karl Alzner's.

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04-22-2013, 01:28 PM
  #653
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"Erskine is not a top 4 D" is quite different from "The Caps don't need Erskine or his type of game".

Either way, Erskine is slotted as the 2LD for the playoffs (assuming they make it). He's always had an extra gear before, so let's hope he has one again. I want to see full-on superbeast Erskine manhandling fools.

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04-22-2013, 01:35 PM
  #654
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"Erskine is not a top 4 D" is quite different from "The Caps don't need Erskine or his type of game".

Either way, Erskine is slotted as the 2LD for the playoffs (assuming they make it). He's always had an extra gear before, so let's hope he has one again. I want to see full-on superbeast Erskine manhandling fools.
Well my take:

Erskine has played like a top 4 this year.

The Caps need Erskine's type of game.

The Caps need Erskine's type of game within their top 4.

All that equals this year's Erskine>>>>>Last years Hamrlik for THIS Caps team.

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04-22-2013, 01:37 PM
  #655
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Meh.

They haven't had much problem with the regular season choking dog aspect of things. They've had success getting into the playoffs....it once there that's the problem and where the choking dog label really comes from.
I hear what you are saying, and agree for the most part. I just see this situation a bit differenct because of the shortened season, the Caps horrible start and their ROAR back from oblivian. Tomorrow is a statement game. Finish the comback right by thoroughly kicking the ass of their nearest compeition in the rankings.

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04-22-2013, 01:41 PM
  #656
Ridley Simon
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OK lets look at those teams in question:

Detroit - No doubt one of the best run orgs in the long run but it is nice to have a guy like Lidstrom there thru all that who is probably one of the top 2 or 3 dmen in NHL history. Great drafting has led to their success moreso than making big bold moves. Datsyuk, Fedorov, Zetterberg, Lidstrom etc in hindsight went WAY too low in their respective drafts.

New Jersey - Personally I'm not liking their moves since the lockout..since Stevens retired. Not forfeiting their 1st this past year was beyond absurd since they were picking so late. Lou felt the need to win now I guess.

Pitt - Getting Kunitz and Guerin weren't earth shattering moves. I like the moved but its not like Shero took huge risk. Again another team built via draft but in this case super high draft picks and winning the suspicious Crosby lottery held behind closed doors.

Alot of these teams are built through the draft and thats why the sustain.

Lou was steering the ship in NJ when they were a "Mickey mouse" organization. They stuck by him through all that and he was fortunate Caron got far too zelous with his RFA offers. He also heisted Toronto in the Kurvers deal. Another shining example of Toronto management not wanting to build the right way and hoping for expedient results.

Lets not forget that there were serious high expectations for the Red Wings after the 86-87 post season where they made it to the CF and played Edmonton tough. They didn't win a cup until about 10 years later and thats with the likes of Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom etc. They got far more heat for choking miserably in the playoffs than the Caps have if you can believe that. It was just that there was no internet around to gang up on them as much.

The Caps are not the best run organization out there for sure. But they are nowhere near the worst either.

Either way there is no use getting worked up all in a knot over this. We all know GMGM is not going anywhere.



Anaheim did make a bold move to get Pronger. If most can go that far back to remember they will know where I stood on that. It was stupid for GMGM to pass over Pronger on 3 separate occassions.

Philly HAD to trade Richards and Carter due to their mismanagement of the cap. They were so bent on winning now that they threw out reckless contract after contract and in the end had to move some guys out and bring back younger cheaper players. Throwing out RFA offers like they do it is only a matter of time before the old boys club gets back at them.

The Jagr thing we can all agree was on Ted. He is the one who forced that trade. GMGM didn't like Jagr and wanted to keep Beech. Was he not on vacation when Ted called him up in regards to that offer? I thought he was and sitting on a sandy beach.

The Caps wanted Guerin that year. It was down to us and the Pens. The problem? The stupid Nylander signing in the offseason. That signing, made for expedient reasons, cuffed our hands for a couple TDLs and prevented us from getting guys like Guerin to help.
lol. Ok, so you dismiss all the winning organizations, and want to continue to focus on the losing ones.

"We may never be like X, but we are better than Y!!" Hooray for that.

And then you tell me that it doesnt matter anyway, as GMGM wont go anywhere. I see, so we should just sit here and take it...dont voice frustrations and displeasure. I dont live that way amigo. Accepting crap isnt a good way to live.

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04-22-2013, 01:43 PM
  #657
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Really? I think Carlson and Alzner are outstanding Dmen and they raise their level significantly when the games are more important.

Carlson for instance, after a tough start, is a +10 and is a league leader in blocked shots who also chips in very well offensively. Alzner is no slouch either.

Green is returning to offensive form and his D is much better than a couple years ago.

Erskine has been great this year and he too has always been better in the playoffs. We can do alot worse than our bottom pairing too.

For the record I didn't like any of those contracts to the 3 dmen in question. Poti the first go around proved me wrong on him. I never though Hammr was the kind of dman we needed and absolutely hated Schultz.

But that was then and this is now. My contention is that GMGM is learning and trending up.
Lets just give him another 15years (maybe a lifetime contract??), and he should be the tops by 2030!

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04-22-2013, 01:48 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
lol. Ok, so you dismiss all the winning organizations, and want to continue to focus on the losing ones.

"We may never be like X, but we are better than Y!!" Hooray for that.

And then you tell me that it doesnt matter anyway, as GMGM wont go anywhere. I see, so we should just sit here and take it...dont voice frustrations and displeasure. I dont live that way amigo. Accepting crap isnt a good way to live.
No I'm suggesting good orgs are generally built through the draft especially in a salary cap environment.

I thought you were voicing frustrations and displeasure!! I'm on board with venting but lets call it what it is.

The reality is..you're going to accept the crap whether you like it or not since getting really really angry on a message board won't do a thing to change the way the Caps are run.

So may as well look on the bright side of things right? Or at least not get so worked up about it. What I say is true...there are better run orgs than the Caps and there are worse.

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Lets just give him another 15years (maybe a lifetime contract??), and he should be the tops by 2030!
Not sure we have much say in the matter huh? Maybe someone really motivated can get a petition going and have STH sign it or something...

But the more realistic solution to perserve hair is acceptance. And with this comes just looking at the bright side of the matter and to supplement with plenty of beer or tequila now that the weather is getting better....


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04-22-2013, 02:20 PM
  #659
Ridley Simon
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No I'm suggesting good orgs are generally built through the draft especially in a salary cap environment.

I thought you were voicing frustrations and displeasure!! I'm on board with venting but lets call it what it is.

The reality is..you're going to accept the crap whether you like it or not since getting really really angry on a message board won't do a thing to change the way the Caps are run.

So may as well look on the bright side of things right? Or at least not get so worked up about it. What I say is true...there are better run orgs than the Caps and there are worse.


Not sure we have much say in the matter huh? Maybe someone really motivated can get a petition going and have STH sign it or something...

But the more realistic solution to perserve hair is acceptance. And with this comes just looking at the bright side of the matter and to supplement with plenty of beer or tequila now that the weather is getting better....
I am not worked up. I like to have fun on this board and voice my frustrations about Boy George, but thats about as far as it goes. I find it semi-laughable when people here defend the management team withoutfail... but again....thats about as far as it goes.

I would like to see a Caps Cup before I die. I am 43, and have been following the Caps for 35 years. So....I am a bit impatient, but not without good reason!

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04-22-2013, 02:36 PM
  #660
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I am not worked up. I like to have fun on this board and voice my frustrations about Boy George, but thats about as far as it goes. I find it semi-laughable when people here defend the management team withoutfail... but again....thats about as far as it goes.

I would like to see a Caps Cup before I die. I am 43, and have been following the Caps for 35 years. So....I am a bit impatient, but not without good reason!
I think all Caps fans need to give their liver a good workout down the stretch here.

Most all management teams make bad moves and they make good ones. Have to acknowledge the bad with the good and to me the Caps have been making more good moves than bad over the last few years. GMGM is not without fault that is for certain.

It could be ALOT worse! You think we have it bad? There are plenty of other fanbases would trade places with us in a heartbeat.

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04-22-2013, 02:40 PM
  #661
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I think all Caps fans need to give their liver a good workout down the stretch here.

Most all management teams make bad moves and they make good ones. Have to acknowledge the bad with the good and to me the Caps have been making more good moves than bad over the last few years. GMGM is not without fault that is for certain.

It could be ALOT worse! You think we have it bad? There are plenty of other fanbases would trade places with us in a heartbeat.
If McPhee hadn't won the Lotto with Ovechkin, that would read "There aren't many fanbases that would trade places with us".

Nothing like have to list winning the draft lottery as your number 1 accomplishment on your resume....

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04-22-2013, 02:48 PM
  #662
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If McPhee hadn't won the Lotto with Ovechkin, that would read "There aren't many fanbases that would trade places with us".
Only if you assume everything that happened after winning the lottery happens the exact same way, which wouldn't have happened...

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04-22-2013, 03:13 PM
  #663
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If the idea is to compare Alzner and Carlson to at his peak Rafalski and the current version of Seabrook then I 100% agree. But I don't think there is any problem comparing Carlson to Seabrook at a similar age/stage of his career and while they are completely different types of players at Alzner's age Rafalski was finishing up his last season in Finland.
I don't necessarily agree that they have ceilings that high, but I guess it's not outlandish to hope that they do. To the other question, I was talking about where they are now...since I do believe that we should be making an effort to compete. And if we compare ourselves to other teams looking to compete right now, our d is well behind the pack in terms of both depth and quality.

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04-22-2013, 03:22 PM
  #664
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Only if you assume everything that happened after winning the lottery happens the exact same way, which wouldn't have happened...
No, but it still doesn't change the fact that his biggest accomplishment is lucking into the #1.

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04-22-2013, 03:27 PM
  #665
Ridley Simon
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
I think all Caps fans need to give their liver a good workout down the stretch here.

Most all management teams make bad moves and they make good ones. Have to acknowledge the bad with the good and to me the Caps have been making more good moves than bad over the last few years. GMGM is not without fault that is for certain.

It could be ALOT worse! You think we have it bad? There are plenty of other fanbases would trade places with us in a heartbeat.
ok, I will bite. BUT, part of this exercise also takes into account that I would be a fan of those teams for 35 years (or as long as they've been in existence).

So..fanbases that should stick with their teams, IMO (in no particular order):Pittsburgh (Cups), Boston (Cup), Montreal (Cups), NYIslanders (Cups), NYRangers (Cup), New Jersey (Cups), Philadelphia (better history), Carolina (Cup), Tampa Bay (Cup), Chicago (Cup), Anaheim (Cup), Vancouver (better history), Los Angeles (Cup), Detroit (Cups), Dallas (Cup), Calgary (Cup), Edmonton (Cups), Colorado (Cups)

Fanbases that would be 50/50, IMO:Toronto, Ottawa, Buffalo, San Jose, St Louis, Minnesota,

Fanbases that would trade with us, IMO:Winnipeg, Florida, Columbus, Phoenix, Nashville

So....18 wouldnt trade. 6 could go either way, and 5 are one that would trade with us. Nashville and Winnipeg are "maybe's" too. But I see more actually wanting to trade franchises than not.

Really, Columbus, Florida, and Phoenix.

3 out of 29? That's your best argument to me?


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04-22-2013, 03:30 PM
  #666
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I don't necessarily agree that they have ceilings that high, but I guess it's not outlandish to hope that they do. To the other question, I was talking about where they are now...since I do believe that we should be making an effort to compete. And if we compare ourselves to other teams looking to compete right now, our d is well behind the pack in terms of both depth and quality.
Well I'm not even sure how I would equate a player who plays Alzner's game to Rafalski at his best. They are just too different.

But I can see Carlson developing into a Seabrook caliber player. Playing next to Keith for as long as he has definitely made Seabrook a better player but IMO it has also made him look better than he really is though.

Regardless no neither of the Caps' guys are currently of the stature of either of the other two.

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04-22-2013, 03:36 PM
  #667
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ok, I will bite. BUT, part of this exercise also takes into account that I would be a fan of those teams for 35 years...
I'm pretty sure he meant trade their current franchise situation for the Caps'.

That changes your list quite a bit IMO.

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04-22-2013, 06:28 PM
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I'm pretty sure he meant trade their current franchise situation for the Caps'.

That changes your list quite a bit IMO.
If thats the case, then its non-sensical. Cant pare away the good times and look at only current cases. None of us became fans this season.

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04-22-2013, 07:47 PM
  #669
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If thats the case, then its non-sensical. Cant pare away the good times and look at only current cases. None of us became fans this season.
Your lists will be different depending on your age and how long you've followed the Caps. A definitive list is impossible to make, and 35 is just an arbitrary # to me.

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04-22-2013, 08:56 PM
  #670
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I'm not sure which thread this belongs in so I'm putting it here. Is anyone else seeing this pathetic display of incompetence by the Caps beat reporters going on right now on Twitter?

Someone asked what the scenarios were for tomorrow (before WPG game was over).

Both he and Katie got it wrong. Then some random twitterer corrected them. So now they are both frantically tweeting the correct info.

How can you be a ****ing Caps beat reporter and not know the answer to that question right off the top?

It's a disgrace. Really. Say what you want about him but Dave Fey is turning in his grave.



EDIT: Nevermind. I guess the algorithm really is that complicated. The NHL's own twitter account just got it wrong about the Sens and had to issue a correction. If it's that ****ing complicated, it needs fixing. All the loser points and ROW vs. Wins. Embarrassing.


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04-22-2013, 09:24 PM
  #671
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You are being a little hard on them.

It was a simple mistake on the fact that the Caps own the 2nd tie breaker.

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04-23-2013, 07:02 AM
  #672
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ok, I will bite. BUT, part of this exercise also takes into account that I would be a fan of those teams for 35 years (or as long as they've been in existence).

So..fanbases that should stick with their teams, IMO (in no particular order):Pittsburgh (Cups), Boston (Cup), Montreal (Cups), NYIslanders (Cups), NYRangers (Cup), New Jersey (Cups), Philadelphia (better history), Carolina (Cup), Tampa Bay (Cup), Chicago (Cup), Anaheim (Cup), Vancouver (better history), Los Angeles (Cup), Detroit (Cups), Dallas (Cup), Calgary (Cup), Edmonton (Cups), Colorado (Cups)

Fanbases that would be 50/50, IMO:Toronto, Ottawa, Buffalo, San Jose, St Louis, Minnesota,

Fanbases that would trade with us, IMO:Winnipeg, Florida, Columbus, Phoenix, Nashville

So....18 wouldnt trade. 6 could go either way, and 5 are one that would trade with us. Nashville and Winnipeg are "maybe's" too. But I see more actually wanting to trade franchises than not.

Really, Columbus, Florida, and Phoenix.

3 out of 29? That's your best argument to me?
Yeah like my man Millhaus said I was speaking more of how things are at currently. Its a "what have you done for me lately" world and league so for example Calgary winning a cup 20 years ago won't change the fact that their fans would trade our players/management/ownership for theirs at this moment without a second thought.

My bad for not illustrating my point more clearly. Its too hard to do historic stuff because some teams have been in the league far longer than others and when there were far fewer teams to compete with to win a cup.


Last edited by BobRouse: 04-23-2013 at 07:27 AM.
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04-23-2013, 07:19 AM
  #673
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i find the basic divide here entertaining. on this side is a crew saying the caps defense stinks and there is no depth. on the other side you have a crew saying the caps defense is solid at minimum with depth, minus schultz and poti, that goes well into the ahl roster.

erskine is a solid 4d. erskine sucks and is a 6 at best. hillen is solid. hillen sucks and is a 7 at best. oleksy has proven he is an nhl defenseman. oleksy is a career ahl player and doesnt belong in an nhl sweater.

personally, kundratek and orlov are pretty good depth players. schilling might also be at this point. schmidt will be a solid depth player at minimum next season and possibly fully nhl ready.

but on the other hand 4, 38 and 61 are not really top 6 nhl players then they are depth forced to play a regular role.

here's the thing i dont get. if hillen and olesky really suck, why are kundratek and orlov in the ahl?

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04-23-2013, 07:24 AM
  #674
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Originally Posted by californiacapsfan View Post
I'm not sure which thread this belongs in so I'm putting it here. Is anyone else seeing this pathetic display of incompetence by the Caps beat reporters going on right now on Twitter?

Someone asked what the scenarios were for tomorrow (before WPG game was over).

Both he and Katie got it wrong. Then some random twitterer corrected them. So now they are both frantically tweeting the correct info.

How can you be a ****ing Caps beat reporter and not know the answer to that question right off the top?

It's a disgrace. Really. Say what you want about him but Dave Fey is turning in his grave.



EDIT: Nevermind. I guess the algorithm really is that complicated. The NHL's own twitter account just got it wrong about the Sens and had to issue a correction. If it's that ****ing complicated, it needs fixing. All the loser points and ROW vs. Wins. Embarrassing.
It's not that complicated if you sit down and do the math. The only thing that takes any advanced figuring is probably the head-to-head tiebreaker, since you have to drop a game in many cases where there's an odd number. Too many people going off memory or repeating what they'd been told rather than sitting down and doing the math themselves.

It's pretty easy now that WPG is the only team on the outside that's still alive.

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04-23-2013, 08:24 AM
  #675
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i find the basic divide here entertaining. on this side is a crew saying the caps defense stinks and there is no depth. on the other side you have a crew saying the caps defense is solid at minimum with depth, minus schultz and poti, that goes well into the ahl roster.

erskine is a solid 4d. erskine sucks and is a 6 at best. hillen is solid. hillen sucks and is a 7 at best. oleksy has proven he is an nhl defenseman. oleksy is a career ahl player and doesnt belong in an nhl sweater.

personally, kundratek and orlov are pretty good depth players. schilling might also be at this point. schmidt will be a solid depth player at minimum next season and possibly fully nhl ready.

but on the other hand 4, 38 and 61 are not really top 6 nhl players then they are depth forced to play a regular role.

here's the thing i dont get. if hillen and olesky really suck, why are kundratek and orlov in the ahl?
Schultz and Sloan were ahead of Erskine and Alzner on the depth chart in the playoffs. Would your straw man even believe their position on the depth chart to be truly representative of their abilities?

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