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Jake Gardiner Unhappy?

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Old
03-13-2013, 09:44 AM
  #176
Kulemon
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Not many people call Gardiner a #1 Dman... most people agree he could be a #2-3 guy. And the people that do call him a #1 Dman get called out on it.

Just you like got called out for calling Johansen a #1 C. But hey, if you extrapolate Johansens points for this season onto an 82 game season, he'd get 30 points! Equal to Gardiners rookie season as a defenceman
Gards got that in 10 less games too. Ahah

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Old
03-13-2013, 09:45 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
Let him develop in the AHL where he can continue learning from a great development coach. Fraser has been great in his role, I wouldn't even consider sending him down. Gardiner has nothing left to do in the AHL, that's pretty clear. It's also clear he's much better than Kostka and Holzer. Keeping Holzer/Kostka up and Gards down because he's not a right handed shot is absolutely insane.
Holzer's done pretty much all he can at the AHL level - much like Gardiner. At some point you need to give players icetime in the NHL.

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03-13-2013, 09:45 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Not many people call Gardiner a #1 Dman... most people agree he could be a #2-3 guy. And the people that do call him a #1 Dman get called out on it.

Just you like got called out for calling Johansen a #1 C. But hey, if you extrapolate Johansens points for this season onto an 82 game season, he'd get 30 points! Equal to Gardiners rookie season as a defenceman
Ryan Johansen is 20 years old. It's not about his point totals or "#1" status this year, it's that he has shown the size, skill, faceoff ability, vision, etc to keep developing into one going forward.

Nobody cares about his point totals this year. I'd rather have him develop over the course of a few years than be Ryan Nugent Hopkins.

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03-13-2013, 09:47 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Give Holzer a few more games. He's played what... 20 games? He has the skill to be a future shutdown guy. But there's a learning curve. And he needs to be in the NHL to properly develop. However I'd have no issues if they pulled Kostka or Fraser.
Kotska, yes. He deserves to at least spend some time in the press box. But Fraser, come on! The guy was leading the league in plus-minus not long ago. If you don't want that kinda guy on ur team, ur bloody crazy!

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Old
03-13-2013, 09:47 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
Gards got that in 10 less games too. Ahah
yep, because Johansen's projected point totals in a 48 game season on a bad team as a 20 year old are a real indication of how the rest of his career numbers will turn out. brilliant analysis

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03-13-2013, 09:48 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
A lil early to consider Johansen a "#1 center".

Teams that make the most sense are IMO: Edmonton, NYI, Philly

Philly could use Gardiner, they need defensemen. They have an abundance of talent up front, but lack on the back end.

I know Flyer fans LOVE Couterier, but they could really benefit from trading him.

To PHI:
Gardiner
Gunnarson

To TOR:
Couterier

Philly has Giroux, Briere, & Schenn.. They'd survive the loss of Couts. Gardiner could be the puck moving mid-pairing dman they lack, & Gunnarson could be valuable on their 3rd pairing.
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
I'd do that trade...Flyers fans wouldn't. Though, I'm not sure Couturier has enough offense in his game to be considered a first line center down the road.
I'm a bit surprised a TML fan responded favorably there--Gunnarsson seems a bit heavy for a "+"

Ironically, such a deal would leave the Flyers with perhaps too many defenseman--and still no #1.

Timonen (for one more year)
Coburn
Gardiner
Schenn
Grossmann
Gunnarsson
(others)

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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
yep, because Johansen's projected point totals in a 48 game season on a bad team as a 20 year old are a real indication of how the rest of his career numbers will turn out. brilliant analysis
Do you think Gardiner's point production as a rookie defenseman is a good indication of how his career will turn out?

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03-13-2013, 09:50 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Do you think Gardiner's point production as a rookie defenseman is a good indication of how his career will turn out?
No, I don't. What I said was that projected #1 centers have much more value than projected offensive defensmen.

The CBJ haven't had a #1 center their entire existence. The Leafs and a lot of other teams haven't had one in how many years?

They are extremely hard to come by. Thus, more valuable that offensive defensmen, who are much easier to find these days.

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Old
03-13-2013, 09:50 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
yep, because Johansen's projected point totals in a 48 game season on a bad team as a 20 year old are a real indication of how the rest of his career numbers will turn out. brilliant analysis
Never said that and wasn't trying to analyze anything bud. I was just pointing out a fact. Thanks for coming out though.

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Old
03-13-2013, 09:52 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by legendinblue View Post
Can't wait how he will prove all the doubters wrong.
Agreed. Now that the Leaf's goaltending has become an issue again, the D's poor skating (as a group) stands out. Gardiner will be a call-up, and soon.

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03-13-2013, 09:56 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
yep, because Johansen's projected point totals in a 48 game season on a bad team as a 20 year old are a real indication of how the rest of his career numbers will turn out. brilliant analysis
Johansen has great size and potential but he's not a #1C right now, just like Gardiner isn't a #1D right now.

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03-13-2013, 09:57 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
Never said that and wasn't trying to analyze anything bud. I was just pointing out a fact. Thanks for coming out though.
Well, no one cares or judges a 20 year old hockey player on their current points. Gardiner's value certainly isn't judged by his current NHL prouduction now is it?

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Old
03-13-2013, 10:00 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
No, I don't. What I said was that projected #1 centers have much more value than projected offensive defensmen.

The CBJ haven't had a #1 center their entire existence. The Leafs and a lot of other teams haven't had one in how many years?

They are extremely hard to come by. Thus, more valuable that offensive defensmen, who are much easier to find these days.
Lol, don't worry. You can keep Johansen. Not many people except Clb fans think he has a good chance of becoming a #1 C.

Can it happen? Sure. But it's not any more likely than Gudbranson becoming a #1 D, Niederreter/Connolly becoming a top line wingers, Burmistrov becoming a #1 C, etc.

Quite a few players from that draft have significantly raised their stock. Johansen is not one of them. Anyways, I don't think it makes sense from a Clb teams needs perspective. Point is that Johansen is not currently near the top of the list of projected top centres out of the prospects/young centres around the league, so acting like Johansens value = future #1 C and Gardiners value = future one dimensional Dman is a bit silly.


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Old
03-13-2013, 10:00 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
No, I don't. What I said was that projected #1 centers have much more value than projected offensive defensmen.

The CBJ haven't had a #1 center their entire existence. The Leafs and a lot of other teams haven't had one in how many years?

They are extremely hard to come by. Thus, more valuable that offensive defensmen, who are much easier to find these days.
Both are young players with great potential, but I guess I'm just not following your logic here.

Why do you presume that Johansen will develop from whatever he is now into a #1C, but not that Gardiner will build on his already impressive offensive game to become a better-rounded top-pairing defenseman?

Anyway, I don't think that a Gardiner-to-CBJ trade makes a lot of sense either. Between the defenseman currently on the roster and Murray (among other prospects), it doesn't seem like a need worthy of giving up Johansen.

But as a strict matter of value, I'm not seeing the kind of gap you're implying exists.

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Old
03-13-2013, 10:05 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
yep, because Johansen's projected point totals in a 48 game season on a bad team as a 20 year old are a real indication of how the rest of his career numbers will turn out. brilliant analysis
And Gardiner wasnt on an equally ****** team? Come on

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Old
03-13-2013, 10:10 AM
  #190
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HunnyBunny is playing 20 minutes a night while signed to a great contract. With Gardiner regressing and wanting out his trade value has dropped drastically. Hunwick, 2nd round pick and a prospect like Nermark or Chouinard is fair, even though leaf homers don't think so...
What?

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the whole reason of Gardiner being sent to the AHL is to develop his game. What makes you think he's doing the exact opposite?

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03-13-2013, 10:13 AM
  #191
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What?

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the whole reason of Gardiner being sent to the AHL is to develop his game. What makes you think he's doing the exact opposite?
Isn't it obvious? Last year he was putting up more minutes and more points in the NHL, as we've learned from countless Bozak+2nd for Staz threads context doesn't matter, just numbers and Gardiner's have been plummeting this season. So Hunwick who's numbers are more impressive this year and a 2nd round pick would be fair.

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03-13-2013, 10:19 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by NothingLikeAnEJ View Post
Avs are doing the same stupid thing with Tyson Barrie. I don't get coaches and their love for slow ass useless defensemen (O'Byrne, Zanon, Kostka, etc).

Oh my god, you have a coach that does this too? Can we be friends?

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03-13-2013, 10:21 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
What?

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the whole reason of Gardiner being sent to the AHL is to develop his game. What makes you think he's doing the exact opposite?
I just don't get why he isn't up with the big club already, especially since the team's D game has gone in the tank, and the goals are going in so easily.

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03-13-2013, 10:22 AM
  #194
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Edmonton 1st + 2nd (from Ana) + Khabibulin

for

Toronto 1st + Jake



Reasoning: Edmonton is likely to pick fairly high in the draft, you could obtain your C from the plethora that exist there. It is not an immediate fix but it will be difficult to pry the 1st line center from another team.

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03-13-2013, 10:22 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
Oh my god, you have a coach that does this too? Can we be friends?
Does your coach also break up the only pairing that's working in the middle of a game because they're playing to well? Cause that's a Sacco-specialty.

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03-13-2013, 10:27 AM
  #196
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Does your coach also break up the only pairing that's working in the middle of a game because they're playing to well? Cause that's a Sacco-specialty.
You mean Phaneuf - Franson?

Does Sacco play your 2nd line for 3 minutes and your 4th line for 4 minutes when your teams down by 2?

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03-13-2013, 10:27 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Michael Gary Scott View Post
And Gardiner wasnt on an equally ****** team? Come on
I don't understand why Leafs fans are so defensive. is it really that offensive to suggest #1 center prospects are higher valued than offensive defensmen prospects?

Take RyJo out of the conversation and put someone else there, like Huberdeau or someone. No one would trade a young center with #1 potential for an offensive defensmen prospect unless they were incredibly deep at center. Centers are are harder to find and more sought after

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03-13-2013, 10:29 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Philly could use Gardiner, they need defensemen. They have an abundance of talent up front, but lack on the back end.

I know Flyer fans LOVE Couterier, but they could really benefit from trading him.

To PHI:
Gardiner
Gunnarson

To TOR:
Couterier

Philly has Giroux, Briere, & Schenn.. They'd survive the loss of Couts. Gardiner could be the puck moving mid-pairing dman they lack, & Gunnarson could be valuable on their 3rd pairing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
I'd do that trade...Flyers fans wouldn't. Though, I'm not sure Couturier has enough offense in his game to be considered a first line center down the road.
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Originally Posted by Michael Gary Scott View Post
Done. Ill drive them to the airport myself
That would be pretty good value for the Flyers, but I think it would give us one too many defensemen. Gunnarsson would find it difficult to crack the lineup ahead of Gardinier, Schenn, Coburn, Timonen, Grossmann, Meszaros.

Likewise, it would be somewhat difficult to see one of the Flyers' few defensively responsible forwards shipped out.

Why don't we take Gunnarsson out of the deal, and add Kulemin from TOR and throw a pick in from Philly.

So the deal would be:
Gardinier + Kulemin for Couturier+2nd

Or if you wanted something bigger:
Couturier + Coburn for Gardinier + Kulemin + 1st

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03-13-2013, 10:30 AM
  #199
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Does your coach also break up the only pairing that's working in the middle of a game because they're playing to well? Cause that's a Sacco-specialty.

Wow that's brutal. McLellan is also a master of the "two guys are playing well together so let's split them up and spread the wealth" move, and this goes for defensemen and forwards. However he's more likely to shift the forwards around in-game.

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Old
03-13-2013, 10:30 AM
  #200
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
HunnyBunny is playing 20 minutes a night while signed to a great contract. With Gardiner regressing and wanting out his trade value has dropped drastically. Hunwick, 2nd round pick and a prospect like Nermark or Chouinard is fair, even though leaf homers don't think so...
Where in the hell did you get that he is regressing? He is absolutely dominating the AHL playing upwards of 30 minutes a night and has 30 points in 40 games including 10 goals. Give your head a shake please. You have no clue what you are talking about.

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