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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XIX

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Old
03-21-2013, 11:46 AM
  #276
txpd
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
They are both young still. Backstrom will just be entering his prime physical years and Ovechkin will be in them.

Tank this year and next and then we will have experienced goalies and have Kuznetsov, Forsberg and Wilson as well as seasoned Carlzner and Orlov in addition to a couple top draft picks.

More like a mini rebuild
ovechkin would be 30 after two tanked seasons. are you also suggesting that the team could go from a tanked season immediately to being a cup contender? not likely.

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03-21-2013, 11:50 AM
  #277
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ovechkin would be 30 after two tanked seasons. are you also suggesting that the team could go from a tanked season immediately to being a cup contender? not likely.
Yeah, no team could draft Galchenyuk last season and then be 4th in the league this season.

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03-21-2013, 12:01 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
Yeah, no team could draft Galchenyuk last season and then be 4th in the league this season.
MTL last season was probably better than the Caps this season, though. They got unlucky play early and then tanked masterfully by riding Budaj down the stretch.

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03-21-2013, 12:03 PM
  #279
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They'd still be trying to keep it going while, as they tend to do, having the long view at the forefront. They'll have fresh, new faces to sell in Forsberg, maybe Kuznetsov and their shiny new pick. Sure the team result may be underwhelming but they don't really sell the team to begin with. It's the stars or "the experience" or whatever.

It wouldn't really be rebuilding since they didn't build it up completely to begin with. Aside from Ribeiro there wouldn't necessarily be a selling off of veterans and it's not like they have any bedrock veteran players anyway.

Maybe they deviate from that for urgency's sake with more win-now moves this summer but if they do it would have to involve significant trades. That means letting go of players they seem to overrate significantly so I wouldn't expect it.
Rebuilding isn't the right word and neither is retooling. Its more of a mini rebuild as they do have some very strong pieces in place and just need to give some of them more experience and add the RIGHT pieces.

I certainly wouldn't "blow it up" or do anything drastic (looking at you TX!). Also while I'd prefer that GMGM was fired it wouldn't devestate me if he wasn't so long as he learned something from his mistakes and made better moves from here on out.

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03-21-2013, 12:05 PM
  #280
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Yeah, no team could draft Galchenyuk last season and then be 4th in the league this season.
See also: Adam Larsson, Stanley Cup finals.

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03-21-2013, 12:06 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
Yeah, no team could draft Galchenyuk last season and then be 4th in the league this season.
Didn't the Penguins finish 2nd in the EC in 2007 after finishing 2nd worst in the league the prior year also?


Also...did not the Caps make it to the SCF the year after missing the playoffs entirely?


There are plenty of examples of this.

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03-21-2013, 12:07 PM
  #282
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It's just throwing away the remainder of the season and trying again next year. It's not like trading Chimera and Ribeiro puts us into an uncontrollable five year tailspin.

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03-21-2013, 12:08 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
MTL last season was probably better than the Caps this season, though. They got unlucky play early and then tanked masterfully by riding Budaj down the stretch.
A large part of their tank was also riding an interim coach for what seemed like 2/3 of the season, but I don't see any reason the Caps can't match what they did.

Even the fearsome new Patrick division isn't looking that intimidating.
PIT - 46 pts, 1st in East
CAR - 32 pts, 7th in East
NYR - 32 pts, 8th in East
NJD - 32 pts, 9th in East
CBJ - 30 pts, would be 10th in East
NYI - 29 pts, 10th in East
PHI - 27 pts, 12th in East
WSH - 25 pts, 14th in East

Pittsburgh is the only (currently) good team. New Jersey is probably down because of the streak without Brodeur, but is he a lock to be back?


Last edited by ChibiPooky: 03-21-2013 at 12:11 PM. Reason: left out CBJ
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03-21-2013, 12:08 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
Yeah, no team could draft Galchenyuk last season and then be 4th in the league this season.
galchenyuk is playing 12:41 average toi. ribeiro is playing 17:54 and leading the nhl in pp points.

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03-21-2013, 12:11 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Didn't the Penguins finish 2nd in the EC in 2007 after finishing 2nd worst in the league the prior year also?


Also...did not the Caps make it to the SCF the year after missing the playoffs entirely


There are plenty of examples of this.
the pens had some 6 or 7 year run of top 5 picks by 07, though. the caps team that missed the playoffs and then went to the scf was a veteran laiden team that did not tank or sell off from among its top players.

if you are suggesting that the caps could trade ribeiro and then hit the ufa market and find a better contract situation and a respectable replacement and the team not miss a beat, i am with you. that could be done. if you are saying to trade him for futures, leave him unreplaced and stink another season and then use the draft picks to build a contender for the next season, then that is unrealistic.

edit: checked the season stats for the 97 playoff fail and the 98 scf team. the main difference there was the caps got adam oates in a 1997 trade and kolzig became the starting goaltender as a result. otherwise the caps top players are all the same one season to the next


Last edited by txpd: 03-21-2013 at 12:19 PM.
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03-21-2013, 12:13 PM
  #286
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Also Flyers worst in the league to conference finals

Chicago missing playoffs to conference finals

Coyotes OEL to division champions

Tampa Connely to conference finals.

Carolina missing the playoffs to conference finals

Ottawa zibanejad to being more competitive than ever since 2007

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03-21-2013, 12:13 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
galchenyuk is playing 12:41 average toi. ribeiro is playing 17:54 and leading the nhl in pp points.
So what? The question was of a team tanking one year and being a contender the next. What does anything in the quoted post have to do with that?

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03-21-2013, 12:22 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
the pens had some 6 or 7 year run of top 5 picks by 07, though. the caps team that missed the playoffs and then went to the scf was a veteran laiden team that did not tank or sell off from among its top players.

if you are suggesting that the caps could trade ribeiro and then hit the ufa market and find a better contract situation and a respectable replacement and the team not miss a beat, i am with you. that could be done. if you are saying to trade him for futures, leave him unreplaced and stink another season and then use the draft picks to build a contender for the next season, then that is unrealistic.
Why not trade Ribeiro for futures and bring in a cheaper stop gap or better yet give a year to see if Johansson or Perrault can take a leap in their development?

Realistically we are not truly competing until Kuznetsov comes over anyhow. That will give us an extra year at developing our younger players which we have plenty of and will have even more in Wilson/Forsberg soon.

And like Brooklyn said...its not like jettisoning Ribeiro will put us in some fatal tailspin.

We are currently tanking just fine WITH him!

We seem to have alot of complacent vets right now and perhaps additional youthful enthusiasm can be a boon?

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03-21-2013, 12:24 PM
  #289
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Funny how two years of tanking apparently won't **** up the locker room as much as one Alexander Semin. Man that guy must have been a real cancer

They shouldn't trade youth for vets for next year but they certainly shouldn't intentionally tank either. This is the perfect tank year because it only lasts 3 months. Over the summer they at the very least need to get Smid, Clowe, cash Johansson and Neuvirth in for something useful, and send Schultz to the pasture.

Pretty funny how so many people want to resign a more one dimensional center version of Semin who's gonna turn 34 next year.

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03-21-2013, 12:34 PM
  #290
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Funny how two years of tanking apparently won't **** up the locker room as much as one Alexander Semin. Man that guy must have been a real cancer

They shouldn't trade youth for vets for next year but they certainly shouldn't intentionally tank either. This is the perfect tank year because it only lasts 3 months. Over the summer they at the very least need to get Smid, Clowe, cash Johansson and Neuvirth in for something useful, and send Schultz to the pasture.

Pretty funny how so many people want to resign a more one dimensional center version of Semin who's gonna turn 34 next year.
The difference between these two cancers is that one actually produced and turned around a woeful PP. I wonder if that's why some would prefer one over the other?

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03-21-2013, 12:37 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
The difference between these two cancers is that one actually produced and turned around a woeful PP. I wonder if that's why some would prefer one over the other?
Not to mention, having Semin at $7M next year wouldn't exactly help the rebuilding cause.

And speaking of the two 'cancers', did the one cancer ever get an 'A' in his 7 seasons on the Caps?

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03-21-2013, 12:48 PM
  #292
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if you are saying to trade him for futures, leave him unreplaced and stink another season and then use the draft picks to build a contender for the next season, then that is unrealistic.
Yet it's entirely within their general way of building. Not making the playoffs doesn't mean stink and it doesn't mean they'd be downright tanking. The eventual impact may be a fringe playoff team but IMO they're pretty well destined to not be a contender next season either way so it doesn't really matter. (Not unless there are a number of off-season trades...) Where have they picked up all of their foundational pieces? The draft.

If they take a center high in the draft then I wouldn't expect them to replace Ribeiro via UFA. Maybe a mediocre 2/3C on a short-term deal but nothing that will block that pick in the years to come. They could use that cap space elsewhere.

They're in transition and with the cap going down this summer there aren't any shortcuts. Whether Ribeiro stays or goes doesn't really change a ton. If they're not a contender they should be setting up how to become one. In the long-term it's tough to justify a market value Ribeiro extension at this point.

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03-21-2013, 12:53 PM
  #293
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Figuring GMGM opts to move Ribeiro by the TDL, based upon the team's performance in the next 7 games leading up to the TDL and with 6 of those being on the road. Additionally would think the Wideman/Semin experience from last season has to be somewhat on his mind.

Of the other pending UFAs, Crabb/Fehr/Hendricks/Hillen/Poti/Volpatti/Wolski, GMGM resigns Fehr and Hendricks and possibly Volpatti.

GMGM goes the conservative route the next two seasons (surprise). I just don't see GMGM shaking the roster up that much.

2013/14 Team

Brouwer - Backstrom - Ovechkin
Fehr (anticipate Forsberg taken over this position at some point during the season)-MAJO-Laich
Ward - Perreault - Chimera
UFA - Beagle - Hendricks
Volpatti

This does not take into account who we might obtain in the 1st round in this year's draft and whether that player can immediately make the club.

Alzner - Green
Erskine - Carlson
Schultz (Smid would be a good signing that could be slotted here) - Kundratek
Olesky - Orlov

Holtby - Neuvirth

2014/2015 Team we don't resign UFAs Chimera/Schultz
Kuznetsov - Backstrom - Ovechkin
Forsberg - MAJO/(or possibly 2013 1st rounder) - Brouwer
Laich - MAJO/Perreault - Fehr
Ward - Beagle - Wilson
Hendricks

Alzner - Green
Erksine - Carlson
Olesky - Orlov
Kundratek
Wey - Schilling

Holtby - Neuvirth

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03-21-2013, 02:28 PM
  #294
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The difference between these two cancers is that one actually produced and turned around a woeful PP. I wonder if that's why some would prefer one over the other?
Semin had his streaks too. The difference is Ribeiro is going on 34 and absolutely woeful at everything except offense, which is much more of an issue for a center than for a winger.

Last I checked the other cancer is producing as well, except he's also instrumental in dragging his team to the playoffs.

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03-21-2013, 02:28 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Not to mention, having Semin at $7M next year wouldn't exactly help the rebuilding cause.

And speaking of the two 'cancers', did the one cancer ever get an 'A' in his 7 seasons on the Caps?
Clearly he's nowhere near the caliber of the leadership group that has taken us to our present heights.

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03-21-2013, 02:37 PM
  #296
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Semin had his streaks too. The difference is Ribeiro is going on 34 and absolutely woeful at everything except offense, which is much more of an issue for a center than for a winger.

Last I checked the other cancer is producing as well, except he's also instrumental in dragging his team to the playoffs.
He didn't produce here. Which is my point. That you're ignoring.

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03-21-2013, 02:44 PM
  #297
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He didn't produce here. Which is my point. That you're ignoring.
He's never produced "here"?

Or are you using turtle season as the actual benchmark for what he can produce "here" vs not "here"?

Ribeiro's played a grand total of 30 games in a caps uniform in a season where they're blowing games left and right and apparently he's part of the solution despite being being 33 going on 34 and being far from a complete player. Are you telling me Semin never had a 30 game PPG stretch "here"?

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03-21-2013, 02:59 PM
  #298
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He's never produced "here"?

Or are you using turtle season as the actual benchmark for what he can produce "here" vs not "here"?

Ribeiro's played a grand total of 30 games in a caps uniform in a season where they're blowing games left and right and apparently he's part of the solution despite being being 33 going on 34 and being far from a complete player. Are you telling me Semin never had a 30 game PPG stretch "here"?
He didn't produce here last year which means goodbye when you're on a one year deal. Ignore the trap; if Semin had done what Ribeiro does on the PP he would still be here. Because he would have been a 90 point player and a key part of a working pp.

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03-21-2013, 03:02 PM
  #299
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He didn't produce here last year which means goodbye when you're on a one year deal. Ignore the trap; if Semin had done what Ribeiro does on the PP he would still be here. Because he would have been a 90 point player and a key part of a working pp.
For reference's sake:

2011-12 Semin: 11 PP points in 77 games
2012-13 Ribeiro: 17 PP points in 29 games

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03-21-2013, 03:07 PM
  #300
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Alzner (should keep)
Carlson (should keep)
Green (new contract)
Erskine (new contract)
Orlov (should keep)
Schultz (GMGM)

All aren't going anywhere. Then there's still Oleksy and Kundratek who have both played very well.
If that is the Caps D of the future, we will never win anything. Unless we somehow get Patrick Roy from 1996 back between the Pipes?

Maybe we can try that angle??

Fire George

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