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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XIX

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Old
03-19-2013, 11:52 AM
  #126
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
No, I'm suggesting that a GOOD GM, COULD make the necessary moves and not be hamstrung like you're suggesting.

I think a front line starter WOULD improve this team quite a bit.
Sure, a front line starter would improve this team quite a bit.

What does that have to do with Miller?

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03-19-2013, 11:57 AM
  #127
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Since Perry and Getzlaf both resigned with ANA, what tandem would you rather have for next 8 years?

Backstrom at 25 yo and Ovechkin at 27 yo - Cap Hit - 16.25

or

Getzlaf at 27 yo and Perry at 27 yo - Cap Hit - 16.8
That's a pretty good question......hard to say, probably Ovi and Nicky but that's definitely a homer decision.

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03-19-2013, 12:01 PM
  #128
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That's a pretty good question......hard to say, probably Ovi and Nicky but that's definitely a homer decision.
It depends whether 8 and 19 return to any semblance of their old form. Even if they're a step below, and Nick is, say, a 25-60 player, and Ovy a 45-40 player, it's them, easily.


Last edited by NobodyBeatsTheWiz: 03-19-2013 at 12:13 PM.
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Old
03-19-2013, 12:12 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
No, I'm suggesting that a GOOD GM, COULD make the necessary moves and not be hamstrung like you're suggesting.

I think a front line starter WOULD improve this team quite a bit.
But... you just can't. How can you take this Caps roster, remove Ribeiro, add Miller, and then use the remaining 3M in cap room to turn them into a contender? I mean, I guess we could dump Schultz, Ward, and Laich then totally sell the farm fill the holes, but that doesn't sound like a great plan to me.

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03-19-2013, 12:43 PM
  #130
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If they're going to trade for a goalie, I would much rather Luongo. As brs said, the difference between an average goalie and an above average one is negligible over the course of a season. In this particular situation, the concern with a guy like Holtby is that he can't be reliably average. His inconsistent play can hurt the team because those extra goals aren't evenly distributed and games are thrown away. To me, that's really the benefit of having someone like Luongo. He's better, but he's also a stabilizing presence who consistently keeps his team in games. In general, though, I really don't like the approach of building from the goalie out.

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03-19-2013, 12:45 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
But... you just can't. How can you take this Caps roster, remove Ribeiro, add Miller, and then use the remaining 3M in cap room to turn them into a contender? I mean, I guess we could dump Schultz, Ward, and Laich then totally sell the farm fill the holes, but that doesn't sound like a great plan to me.
A GM with a clear vision and plan could. Look at the wheeling and dealing the Kings did to shape that roster into a Cup winner in a very short time.

No reason (assuming we hire a competent team architect) the Caps couldn't do the same.

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03-19-2013, 01:03 PM
  #132
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The cap going down $6M next season makes it a season unlike any other. Outside of compliance buyouts I doubt dumping contracts will be very easy. Trading Green seems to be the most significant way to change the mix in the short-term.

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03-19-2013, 01:05 PM
  #133
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The cap going down $6M next season makes it a season unlike any other. Outside of compliance buyouts I doubt dumping contracts will be very easy. Trading Green seems to be the most significant way to change the mix in the short-term.
I'm pretty sure he would have to pass a physical for the trade to go through.

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03-19-2013, 01:07 PM
  #134
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funny...dean lombardi before that spate of trading and the following playoff run was being fried regularly for the long lenth of the failing rebuild. he was more on the hot seat than mcphee is and when making those trades there were many saying they were desperation last gasp moves to try and avoid getting fired.

nobody thought lombardi had a clear vision and a competent team architect. meanwhile many here love to use holmgren as another wheeler dealer with the balls to make the necessary big moves. where are they in the standings? 2pts ahead of the caps giving washington a game in hand or something?

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03-19-2013, 01:10 PM
  #135
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funny...dean lombardi before that spate of trading and the following playoff run was being fried regularly for the long lenth of the failing rebuild. he was more on the hot seat than mcphee is and when making those trades there were many saying they were desperation last gasp moves to try and avoid getting fired.

nobody thought lombardi had a clear vision and a competent team architect. meanwhile many here love to use holmgren as another wheeler dealer with the balls to make the necessary big moves. where are they in the standings? 2pts ahead of the caps giving washington a game in hand or something?
Yeah, I've talked about the Lombardi thing a lot and everyone ignores it. I don't think it vindicates McPhee as much as it just suggests most GMs don't really know what they're doing, though. Those moves absolutely were desperate attempts to save his job.

Edit: I mean the Carter one was. And hiring Sutter was just turning to a coach he knew.

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03-19-2013, 01:18 PM
  #136
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Vancouver fan coming in peace! Sucks seeing the Caps where they are right now, hopefully everything works out for you guys.

I'm here wondering what the price is on a player like Johansson. I know he had that brutal start and injury but he has picked it up as of late. What would it take to get someone like Johansson on the Nucks?

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03-19-2013, 01:20 PM
  #137
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Vancouver fan coming in peace! Sucks seeing the Caps where they are right now, hopefully everything works out for you guys.

I'm here wondering what the price is on a player like Johansson. I know he had that brutal start and injury but he has picked it up as of late. What would it take to get someone like Johansson on the Nucks?
Luongo + 1st

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03-19-2013, 01:25 PM
  #138
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Luongo + 1st
You're kidding

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03-19-2013, 01:25 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
funny...dean lombardi before that spate of trading and the following playoff run was being fried regularly for the long lenth of the failing rebuild. he was more on the hot seat than mcphee is and when making those trades there were many saying they were desperation last gasp moves to try and avoid getting fired.

nobody thought lombardi had a clear vision and a competent team architect. meanwhile many here love to use holmgren as another wheeler dealer with the balls to make the necessary big moves. where are they in the standings? 2pts ahead of the caps giving washington a game in hand or something?
Two words....CUP CHAMPS.


Nothing else matters.

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Old
03-19-2013, 01:25 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
A GM with a clear vision and plan could. Look at the wheeling and dealing the Kings did to shape that roster into a Cup winner in a very short time.

No reason (assuming we hire a competent team architect) the Caps couldn't do the same.
Except Lombardi, Chiarelli, Tallon, etc were idiots until oh snap they weren't.

Captain Hindsight strikes again.

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Old
03-19-2013, 03:00 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Liberati0n View Post
If they're going to trade for a goalie, I would much rather Luongo. As brs said, the difference between an average goalie and an above average one is negligible over the course of a season. In this particular situation, the concern with a guy like Holtby is that he can't be reliably average. His inconsistent play can hurt the team because those extra goals aren't evenly distributed and games are thrown away. To me, that's really the benefit of having someone like Luongo. He's better, but he's also a stabilizing presence who consistently keeps his team in games. In general, though, I really don't like the approach of building from the goalie out.
Incorrect. In terms of stabilizing presence, you want a goalie with better rebound control which Miller is much better than Luongo at. Bad rebound control gets the defense scrambling and out of position, increasing SA to the point where even with a better sv% a goalie would still give up more goals simply because his bad rebound control caused him to face more shots. You don't see the statsturbators using shooting% alone to compare forwards across the board, because that alone doesn't tell the whole story. Anyone who thinks they can tell what an average goalie is based on sv% is quite simply does not understand hockey. This is all without factoring in the quality of defense in front of the goalie, which in Buffalo is hilariously bad to the point where Jeff Schultz might actually be an improvement.

P.S. Luongo actually has a worst sv% than Miller right now.

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03-19-2013, 03:12 PM
  #142
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Incorrect. In terms of stabilizing presence, you want a goalie with better rebound control which Miller is much better than Luongo at. Bad rebound control gets the defense scrambling and out of position, increasing SA to the point where even with a better sv% a goalie would still give up more goals simply because his bad rebound control caused him to face more shots. You don't see the statsturbators using shooting% alone to compare forwards across the board, because that alone doesn't tell the whole story. Anyone who thinks they can tell what an average goalie is based on sv% is quite simply does not understand hockey. This is all without factoring in the quality of defense in front of the goalie, which in Buffalo is hilariously bad to the point where Jeff Schultz might actually be an improvement.

P.S. Luongo actually has a worst sv% than Miller right now.
Fair enough. I have no rebuttal.

I wasn't saying I want to trade for Luongo though. I'm against both. I think building a good defense is much more important than having an above average goalie (not that I trust GMGM to do so). The result of Miller + Buffalo's defense is a good example.

Edit: Also I didn't mean to imply that Miller wasn't a stabilizing presence. I was grouping him and Luongo together and then picking Luongo.

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03-19-2013, 03:18 PM
  #143
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It depends whether 8 and 19 return to any semblance of their old form. Even if they're a step below, and Nick is, say, a 25-60 player, and Ovy a 45-40 player, it's them, easily.
And if it is the current versions...?

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03-19-2013, 03:28 PM
  #144
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And if it is the current versions...?
I think everyone on the boards would agree if current versions you take the other 2 sadly

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03-19-2013, 03:32 PM
  #145
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Fair enough. I have no rebuttal.

I wasn't saying I want to trade for Luongo though. I'm against both. I think building a good defense is much more important than having an above average goalie (not that I trust GMGM to do so). The result of Miller + Buffalo's defense is a good example.

Edit: Also I didn't mean to imply that Miller wasn't a stabilizing presence. I was grouping him and Luongo together and then picking Luongo.
I think most everyone is in agreement that Miller at his current salary doesn't not fit on this team, which is a valid reason because the team as currently structured does not allow for room for a highly paid goalie no matter the level of play. However, to simply dismiss Miller as "average" based on sv% alone is hilariously stupid.

Buffalo's problem is that their owner is like NBTW but with money. He threw money at players with nice stats but is completely clueless outside of the stats. What they really needed was depth to make up for all the talent they lost over the years due to previous ownership's cheapness but instead they went with top heavy spending.

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03-19-2013, 03:36 PM
  #146
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The cap going down $6M next season makes it a season unlike any other. Outside of compliance buyouts I doubt dumping contracts will be very easy. Trading Green seems to be the most significant way to change the mix in the short-term.
WOOT WOOT

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03-19-2013, 03:38 PM
  #147
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You're kidding
What no counter offer...?

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03-19-2013, 05:49 PM
  #148
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For what is worth I would trade Nick for Getzlaf today if I could. I am not even sure Getzlaf is the better player. I just know he is a better leader. Dropping the gloves will never score goals. But it will go a long way in build team unity and trust. You can not put a true value on player that stand up for there teammates. Its contiguous and makes other players step up. Our players hardly stand up for themselves never mind each other.

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03-19-2013, 06:28 PM
  #149
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For what is worth I would trade Nick for Getzlaf today if I could. I am not even sure Getzlaf is the better player. I just know he is a better leader. Dropping the gloves will never score goals. But it will go a long way in build team unity and trust. You can not put a true value on player that stand up for there teammates. Its contiguous and makes other players step up. Our players hardly stand up for themselves never mind each other.


Good post. George tends to acquire guys who are passive. Maybe George wants guys he can boss around. That makes for pleasant practices but doesn't seem to deliver Cups.

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03-19-2013, 06:40 PM
  #150
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