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Kings - Sabres Trade In Works?

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Old
03-14-2013, 02:34 PM
  #251
Mats26
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Originally Posted by Leonard Washington View Post
All of the RFAs will be signed, we might let Scuds go but I doubt it. Drewiske is gone.

The last time we had a RFA it costs us 7 million a year, RFAs are just like UFAs IMO, they will cost us more money and there is no way we can afford to pay Voynov, Scuderi and all the other RFAs to bigger contracts. Expect at least 2 D moved this year and next.

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03-14-2013, 02:34 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Our coach is Darryl Sutter. I doubt we're looking at Vanek.
Vanek's reputation as being "soft" or "lazy" should have died in 2006, his sophomore year. Since then, he's made huge strides in his conditioning, work ethic, and defensive play. He's also a tough SOB, contrary to popular belief. I've never seen a star player take as much abuse in front of the net on the power play as he does, and continue to do so, despite numberous injuries from doing so. The dudes got heart.

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03-14-2013, 02:36 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
Vanek may get more goals over the long haul Id rather have Carter myself. He fits into our team has boasted our goal scoring also made richards play alot better. Hockey isnt alway about points and goals but who make the team better. The right fit sorta thing.
if their cap hit were the same I htink I would rather have Vanek just due to the fact of how much depth we have at Centre.
However as one of those centres is Richards I flip to other side of the coin where I would rather have Carter as they always know what the other is going to do.

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03-14-2013, 02:40 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Lol. Carter had one season where he was better, than Vanek, 4 years ago, on an offensively loaded Flyers team. Vanek has been better in every single other season while playing less minutes (because Ruff hates giving ice time to offensive players). Vanek is the 5th in the NHL in goal scoring in the last 7 seasons and 21st in points; Carter is 16th and 46th, respectively. Vanek's PPG over that span is 0.876 to Carter's 0.770. Carter is absolutely not a better player than Vanek.
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Vanek is much better then Carter. Vanek has the highest gpg out of the whole 03 draft which oddly includes Carter. Vanek is better. Has been, still is and ALWAYS will be. Vanek has scored 25+ goals in each of his first 7 seasons. Only other active players to do so? Jagr, Kovy and Ovechkin.
You two are missing the important part.

Carter is locked up until 2022 at a 5.27 cap hit
Vanek is signed for one more season at 7.14 cap hit

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03-14-2013, 02:45 PM
  #255
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if their cap hit were the same I htink I would rather have Vanek just due to the fact of how much depth we have at Centre.
However as one of those centres is Richards I flip to other side of the coin where I would rather have Carter as they always know what the other is going to do.
Yes cap hit is also another reason id take Carter I think the reason we do have carter is why we have center depth take him out id be hard pressed to see who takes over 2nd center if koptiar or richards would be injuryed. Stoll is perfect 3rd and shouldnt be moved up. Chemistry between richard and carter isnt something to be over looked, They play to well together. Althou id love to see if vanek and kopitar could develope some chemistry they would be deadly

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03-14-2013, 02:45 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Irving Zisman View Post
Vanek's reputation as being "soft" or "lazy" should have died in 2006, his sophomore year. Since then, he's made huge strides in his conditioning, work ethic, and defensive play. He's also a tough SOB, contrary to popular belief. I've never seen a star player take as much abuse in front of the net on the power play as he does, and continue to do so, despite numberous injuries from doing so. The dudes got heart.
It's not a matter of heart. Sutter has implemented a certain system that is now unquestioned in LA. Vanek's game doesn't fit Sutter's aggressive forechecking game plan that wears opponents down. I don't see Vanek in that role at all and still be able to produce numbers that justify his salary.

And LA plays an extremely responsible defensive system as well.

My post was less to the Sabres fans and more to the Kings fans that we're looking for certain types of players and Vanek is not in that mold. Also we don't pay wingers big money. Only guys who play down the middle, centers, anchor D and goalies, get big bucks from LA. Now if Buffalo keeps half of Vanek's salary, then you can ask for that two firsts package.

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03-14-2013, 02:56 PM
  #257
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Trying to fit Vanek would be the same as trying to fit Perry into our salary structure. It's possible, but we would have to dismantle a lot and downgrade significant areas. No real reason to go for it and would hurt our team overall. We might be looking for a secondary forward, but right now we should just be focused on a defenseman.

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03-14-2013, 03:00 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Trying to fit Vanek would be the same as trying to fit Perry into our salary structure. It's possible, but we would have to dismantle a lot and downgrade significant areas. No real reason to go for it and would hurt our team overall. We might be looking for a secondary forward, but right now we should just be focused on a defenseman.
Williams and Stoll would have to go, along with more assets, in order to fit Vanek's cap hit onto the roster. That would create an opening on the 3rd line, and I'm not sure that Trevor Lewis is capable of replacing Stoll on the faceoff dot.

Now if they were able to pry Ott as part of a package, he would be the ideal replacement as the 3rd line C as he is excellent on the draw.

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03-14-2013, 03:03 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Trying to fit Vanek would be the same as trying to fit Perry into our salary structure. It's possible, but we would have to dismantle a lot and downgrade significant areas. No real reason to go for it and would hurt our team overall. We might be looking for a secondary forward, but right now we should just be focused on a defenseman.
Good point, at least for next year. Unless Sabres keep a big chunk of that salary, it's not worth all the trouble to try to fit him in and all we really need is a Greene/Mitchell replacement.

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03-14-2013, 03:10 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
It's not a matter of heart. Sutter has implemented a certain system that is now unquestioned in LA. Vanek's game doesn't fit Sutter's aggressive forechecking game plan that wears opponents down. I don't see Vanek in that role at all and still be able to produce numbers that justify his salary.

And LA plays an extremely responsible defensive system as well.

My post was less to the Sabres fans and more to the Kings fans that we're looking for certain types of players and Vanek is not in that mold. Also we don't pay wingers big money. Only guys who play down the middle, centers, anchor D and goalies, get big bucks from LA. Now if Buffalo keeps half of Vanek's salary, then you can ask for that two firsts package.
You really don't watch Thomas Vanek, do you? He's currently leading this team in takeaways, backchecks hard, and creating off the cycle has been his and Pominville's bread and butter ever since they've were put together two seasons ago.

If it's a matter of salary, that's another thing entirely, but stop inventing flaws in Vanek's game to diminish his value to LA.

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03-14-2013, 03:42 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Irving Zisman View Post
I've never seen a star player take as much abuse in front of the net on the power play as he does,
I guess you never saw Rick Vaive play then.

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03-14-2013, 03:53 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
You really don't watch Thomas Vanek, do you? He's currently leading this team in takeaways, backchecks hard, and creating off the cycle has been his and Pominville's bread and butter ever since they've were put together two seasons ago.

If it's a matter of salary, that's another thing entirely, but stop inventing flaws in Vanek's game to diminish his value to LA.
Who cares what he thinks. Vanek will net a King's ransom or Regier will never trade him. Bottom line. He's a top 20 player in league, I think. I know Darcy thinks that.

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03-14-2013, 07:18 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
Vanek may get more goals over the long haul Id rather have Carter myself. He fits into our team has boasted our goal scoring also made richards play alot better. Hockey isnt alway about points and goals but who make the team better. The right fit sorta thing.
You need to actually watch Vanek play.

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03-14-2013, 07:32 PM
  #264
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You need to actually watch Vanek play.
funny people assuming that just cause u have a different opinion than theres because u havent seen there player play. Carter right now is 3rd in goal scoring in the league I think he doing just fine ty, Also he has made /gotten mike richards playing alot better sence they got him. I never once said Vanek isnt a hell of a player just saying the chemistry of richards and carter is something i like and wouldnt mess with for the chance vanek will be able to keep up his current scoring pace which no one seems to when playing in uber defense first system of la.

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03-14-2013, 07:42 PM
  #265
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They really wouldn't.

The Kings already have 4 players making over 5 million. The Kings don't have room for that cap hit. Nor would they trade any of those 5 mil+ players for Vanek.

If I am nuts, then you are bananas
Having Vanel now for two playoff runs is well worth his salary.

If he comes available half the league will make serious offers for him.

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03-14-2013, 08:00 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
You really don't watch Thomas Vanek, do you? He's currently leading this team in takeaways, backchecks hard, and creating off the cycle has been his and Pominville's bread and butter ever since they've were put together two seasons ago.

If it's a matter of salary, that's another thing entirely, but stop inventing flaws in Vanek's game to diminish his value to LA.
Stop taking what I'm saying as insults. It has nothing to do with any so-called "flaws in his game".

The Kings are a team who let Ted Purcell and Matt Moulson go for almost nothing because we couldn't use them. Then we brought up Dwight King and Jordan Nolan who, along with Jeff Carter and a re-vitalized Penner helped get us to the Cup. King and Nolan are not as talented or valuable on the open market as Purcell and Moulson. But they fit our system better.

LA wouldn't know what to do with Vanek or use him correctly. Buffalo will get plenty for him on the open market, just not from LA. It's not a dis on Vanek.

It's kinda similar in basketball where if you play the triangle offense, you'd rather not have your point guard as your best (and highest paid) player because it's a total waste of cap space because the system focuses more on center and forward.

And LA has plenty of wingers right now. We just need a defensive D.

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03-14-2013, 08:03 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
funny people assuming that just cause u have a different opinion than theres because u havent seen there player play. Carter right now is 3rd in goal scoring in the league I think he doing just fine ty, Also he has made /gotten mike richards playing alot better sence they got him. I never once said Vanek isnt a hell of a player just saying the chemistry of richards and carter is something i like and wouldnt mess with for the chance vanek will be able to keep up his current scoring pace which no one seems to when playing in uber defense first system of la.
No, you and other Kings fans keep assuming that Vanek's in a beneficial situation in Buffalo and that he would regress in LA because he's a player with limited dimensions going to a defense-first system.

All of the above is bunk. As good as Hodgson's been, Kopitar would be the best forward Vanek's ever played with, and actual first line minutes in an actual system would also be career firsts, and that has nothing to do with Vanek not deserving it.

He's the best player around the net in the league along with Sid and Tavares, and a grinding, possession system designed around getting pucks to the net, with skill up and down the top six, would be a match made in heaven. That's why Sabres fans keep playing the "you don't watch him play" card.

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03-14-2013, 08:20 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
No, you and other Kings fans keep assuming that Vanek's in a beneficial situation in Buffalo and that he would regress in LA because he's a player with limited dimensions going to a defense-first system.

All of the above is bunk. As good as Hodgson's been, Kopitar would be the best forward Vanek's ever played with, and actual first line minutes in an actual system would also be career firsts, and that has nothing to do with Vanek not deserving it.

He's the best player around the net in the league along with Sid and Tavares, and a grinding, possession system designed around getting pucks to the net, with skill up and down the top six, would be a match made in heaven. That's why Sabres fans keep playing the "you don't watch him play" card.
We have seen alot of player come to la and offense has dropped. I am not assuming this will happen just saying its a posibility and a real concern see handzues richards ponioksky . If anything im commenting that the kings are fine without vanek, Carter is imo as good a player for over a million cheaper signed for alot longer this is what makes him for me a better fit. He is also a big part of the team. Chemisty to me is a hugeeeeee reason the kings won the cup. Dl preaches the player has to be the right fit. We have alot of big contracts so we have to save every nickel we can I just dont see dl screwing with chemistry to fit him in. Hockey is a team game and not always the best players win otherwise pittsburgh would win with the best two players malkin and crosby. I rarely agree with Rorschach i agree your taking this to personal. IM not saying he aint a good player just he wouldnt fit in la imo

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03-14-2013, 08:41 PM
  #269
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He wouldn't fit for that price. If Buffalo keeps half the salary, that's a different story.

No one in LA scores PPG and every player that comes here sees a 25% drop or so in scoring. Plus we don't need a top six right now which is the only role he's suited for.


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Old
03-14-2013, 09:03 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
He wouldn't fit for that price. If Buffalo keeps half the salary, that's a different story.

No one in LA scores PPG and every player that comes here sees a 25% drop or so in scoring. Plus we don't need a top six right now which is the only role he's suited for.
We for sure need a d dman but vanek would arguable become our best player if we got him and would be a perfect fit with kopi. If there was a way to get him the kings should get him.

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03-14-2013, 09:07 PM
  #271
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Stafford is an option if they don't think they can land Iginla.

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03-14-2013, 09:10 PM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
He wouldn't fit for that price. If Buffalo keeps half the salary, that's a different story.

No one in LA scores PPG and every player that comes here sees a 25% drop or so in scoring. Plus we don't need a top six right now which is the only role he's suited for.
Disagree with the bolded part. Sure, Penner is playing decently better as of late, but adding a sniper on the wing with Kopi would look much more scary. Which would mean you would put Brown down onto the 2nd line left wing spot, that would probably be one of the best 2nd lines in the league... on paper at least. (Brown-Richards-Carter).

But yes, trying to fit Vanek in with our cap structure would be very difficult, seeing as how a few of our guys are due for raises (Looking at you Mr. Voynov).

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03-14-2013, 10:14 PM
  #273
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As polarizing as he can be to the Kings fanbase, Kings would absolutely regret trading Stoll.

Who fills that role? I don't see anyone coming back from BUF that would 'fix' that position now that Gaustad is gone.
This guy gets it.

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03-14-2013, 10:20 PM
  #274
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Stafford is an option if they don't think they can land Iginla.
Unless he can play LW, otherwise, we already have RW's with Williams and Carter.

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03-14-2013, 10:49 PM
  #275
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Trying to fit Vanek would be the same as trying to fit Perry into our salary structure. It's possible, but we would have to dismantle a lot and downgrade significant areas. No real reason to go for it and would hurt our team overall. We might be looking for a secondary forward, but right now we should just be focused on a defenseman.
He'd be great for the PP. Net presence LW.

The problem is the length of his contract. If the Sabres kept even as much as 50% of his cap hit it wouldn't help - the issue is resigning him at the same time Brown is resigned.

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