HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Have you seen this before? (Torts's system in VAN)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-05-2014, 03:28 AM
  #1
ohnoeszz
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 973
vCash: 500
Have you seen this before? (Torts's system in VAN)



This is a thread for I told you so's since that won't be well received on the Canucks board.

For those of you who rightfully have paid the Canucks no attention, they have scored 7 goals in their last 8 games. The Sedins are on a 12 game pointless streak with neither scoring a goal in the last 22 games. Virtually the whole roster is producing well below career averages offensively. The power play (though also bad the year before) is 2nd worst in the league.

They were shutout tonight by the Coyotes while mustering 23 shots on goal and accounting for maybe 3 scoring chances. It was one of the worst games I have ever witnessed. Is there any hope for the transition game to improve?

ohnoeszz is offline  
Old
03-05-2014, 03:37 AM
  #2
SixGoalieSystem
Registered User
 
SixGoalieSystem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Trondheim
Posts: 3,353
vCash: 50
It's hard to tell, really, since Torts seems to have shifted his focus. When he was with Tampa he preached an offense first mentality and their transition game was one of the things that won them their cup.

When he came to the Rangers his mantra was "safe is death", but as the offensive focus didn't work with the personnel, he adjusted and slowly moved towards the "six goalie system" and changed his mantra to "offense from defense".

(Long story short and extremely simplified).

He seems to have brought the latter mentality to Vancouver. What you should expect is not a huge improvement in transition or offense, but as (if) the players start to buy into the system and they trade for or sign players who better fit the system, you should see improvement. You should start seeing a hard working team, playing for each other, blocking shots and throwing their body around, generating offense through long breakout passes or from behind the net.

Yeah..That picture does look familiar.

SixGoalieSystem is online now  
Old
03-05-2014, 03:38 AM
  #3
Blueshirt Believer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohnoeszz View Post
Is there any hope for the transition game to improve?
No, Torts doesn't have a clue how to coach a transition game post '05 lockout. He views the transition game as "pinball" where you heave long stretch passes until a neutral zone hole eventually emerges.

He has no idea what he is doing in that regard and shows no signs to adapt to that portion of the game.

Blueshirt Believer is offline  
Old
03-05-2014, 03:44 AM
  #4
Blueshirt Believer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SixGoalieSystem View Post
It's hard to tell, really, since Torts seems to have shifted his focus. When he was with Tampa he preached an offense first mentality and their transition game was one of the things that won them their cup.

When he came to the Rangers his mantra was "safe is death", but as the offensive focus didn't work with the personnel, he adjusted and slowly moved towards the "six goalie system" and changed his mantra to "offense from defense".

(Long story short and extremely simplified).

He seems to have brought the latter mentality to Vancouver. What you should expect is not a huge improvement in transition or offense, but as (if) the players start to buy into the system and they trade for or sign players who better fit the system, you should see improvement. You should start seeing a hard working team, playing for each other, blocking shots and throwing their body around, generating offense through long breakout passes or from behind the net.

Yeah..That picture does look familiar.
In regards to his transition game with Tampa: He had MSL and the neutral zone breakouts still dealt with the two line pass. As soon as the new rules came into effect in '05; his transition game fell apart. He never adapted.


Last edited by Blueshirt Believer: 03-05-2014 at 03:49 AM.
Blueshirt Believer is offline  
Old
03-05-2014, 03:47 AM
  #5
SixGoalieSystem
Registered User
 
SixGoalieSystem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Trondheim
Posts: 3,353
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
In regards to his transition game with Tampa: He had MSL and the neutral zone breakouts still dealt with the two line pass. As soon as the new rules came into effect in '05; his transition game feel apart. He never adapted.
That is a very good point and would explain his failure to coach a decent transition game that doesn't rely on stretch passes hitting fast wingers.

SixGoalieSystem is online now  
Old
03-05-2014, 03:54 AM
  #6
Blueshirt Believer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SixGoalieSystem View Post
That is a very good point and would explain his failure to coach a decent transition game that doesn't rely on stretch passes hitting fast wingers.
I personally feel that the game has passed him by. If the Canucks are smart they will dump him at the end of the season. Otherwise, they will bring in a ton of middling grinders with lots of heart but little skill to play "brain dead hockey." Its not going to get them any closer to a cup.

Blueshirt Believer is offline  
Old
03-05-2014, 04:17 AM
  #7
Zucc36
Registered User
 
Zucc36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country:
Posts: 1,289
vCash: 500
But as long as they block shots everything is fine, I guess

Zucc36 is offline  
Old
03-05-2014, 04:21 AM
  #8
Raspewtin
Xanny family
 
Raspewtin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Country: France
Posts: 28,436
vCash: 50
Yeah, that picture looks very familiar.

Torts was never the right choice for the Canucks, and I still stand by it.

__________________
"It's going to be a zoo no matter what, Staalmania, Staals everywhre, omg Staal on Staal action, three brothers hockeying! Staal returning to Carolina omg what news! All the feels he is feel..." - Ail on Eric Staal's return to Carolina.
Raspewtin is offline  
Old
03-05-2014, 04:30 AM
  #9
Zamboner
Your move, creep.
 
Zamboner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,018
vCash: 500
Torts isn't the right coach for anybody. He'll be out of the league by this time next year.

Zamboner is offline  
Old
03-05-2014, 05:04 AM
  #10
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 20,742
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SixGoalieSystem View Post
It's hard to tell, really, since Torts seems to have shifted his focus. When he was with Tampa he preached an offense first mentality and their transition game was one of the things that won them their cup.

When he came to the Rangers his mantra was "safe is death", but as the offensive focus didn't work with the personnel, he adjusted and slowly moved towards the "six goalie system" and changed his mantra to "offense from defense".

(Long story short and extremely simplified).

He seems to have brought the latter mentality to Vancouver. What you should expect is not a huge improvement in transition or offense, but as (if) the players start to buy into the system and they trade for or sign players who better fit the system, you should see improvement. You should start seeing a hard working team, playing for each other, blocking shots and throwing their body around, generating offense through long breakout passes or from behind the net.

Yeah..That picture does look familiar.
The thing is:

1.) Torts breakout is designed to avoid misstakes at the cost of his teams giving the puck away a lot.

2.) When Torts coached Tampa before the lockout, he faced teams that also gave the puck away a lot.

3.) When Torts has coached in the NHL a year or two after the lockout, he faced teams that hanged on to the puck.

Its showing. I mean, even in Tampa he coached that team -- with BR, Vinny L, MSL, Dan Boyle and co in their prime (sure they lost Khabby and had some injuries, but still) -- to the 30th overall spot. We played god awful hockey in NY during almost his entire stint here. Vancouver is in free-fall.

Ola is offline  
Old
03-05-2014, 05:04 AM
  #11
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 20,742
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
No, Torts doesn't have a clue how to coach a transition game post '05 lockout. He views the transition game as "pinball" where you heave long stretch passes until a neutral zone hole eventually emerges.

He has no idea what he is doing in that regard and shows no signs to adapt to that portion of the game.
But Tortorella is a NHL coach, are you telling me that you knows more than he knows?

Unfortuneately, maybe, and for some reason, coaches in hockey has a real hard time to adopt. The game changes quite drastically every know and then, history is full for coaches who refused to adopt. Lemaire is an example everyone knows of, great hockey mind. But he played his 1-3-1 trap to the dot year in and year out.

Ola is offline  
Old
03-05-2014, 05:12 AM
  #12
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 20,742
vCash: 500
The red-line offside was removed in 98' in Europe, and 05' in the NHL.

What happend to the game in Europe? People think that the game here is defensive-minded now, they should have seen it before 98'. There was an extreme amount of sitting back and trapping going on. There were frontpages with picutres of grave yards declaring the game dead. After the redline-offside was removed, and while the development varied from countries and teams, it became very obvious that -- it started to pay off more to be more offensive by hanging on to the puck more -- no matter what.

The logic behind that is not strange, at all. You cannot sit at the redline anymore, hence its possible to stretch out the defending team more, when you can do that you get more room to hang on to the puck. I know like 50% of the posters will jump on me and claim that I make this up, but I think its extremely obvious that we right now really are seing this development in the NHL too. The better teams are the teams that are able to hang on to the puck more, win the momentum battle and take the play to the other team.

I don't care if Torts is a NHL coach and knows 10,000x more about the game than me, I've said since Slats hired him that this was not the right way to go. I still just cannot understand how Slats could be so blind to the development of the game. At least he fired Torts.

Ola is offline  
Old
03-05-2014, 05:25 AM
  #13
Amazing Kreiderman
Night-shift fan!
 
Amazing Kreiderman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Netherlands
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 12,850
vCash: 500
6-goalie system fully operational in Vancouver

Amazing Kreiderman is offline  
Old
03-05-2014, 05:51 AM
  #14
filth e mcnasti
Registered User
 
filth e mcnasti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: AZ
Posts: 113
vCash: 500
I hate that moron. I feel terribly for Canucks fan, and I thank that organization for letting us hire a real hockey coach. That guy will make watching your team miserable.

filth e mcnasti is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:53 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.