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12/13 Draft Thread: The top 5 sucks, late first-round picks rule.

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Old
03-31-2013, 02:19 PM
  #326
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Bo Horvat and Ryan Hartman look like good picks in the 18-24 range.

How nice would Leivo-Horvat/Hartman-Biggs be as a third line in 2 years?

EDIT: Also, did anyone else notice that Ryan Hartman is listed as 6'2 now according to ISS? He's grown just like he said he would. Would be a fantastic choice.


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03-31-2013, 03:11 PM
  #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Mayhew View Post
Bo Horvat and Ryan Hartman look like good picks in the 18-24 range.

How nice would Leivo-Horvat/Hartman-Biggs be as a third line in 2 years?

EDIT: Also, did anyone else notice that Ryan Hartman is listed as 6'2 now according to ISS? He's grown just like he said he would. Would be a fantastic choice.
I dunno, I'm of the opinion you shouldn't draft in the 1st round with your 3rd line in mind.

Rather take a higher risk/higher reward player than Hartman there, but I'd be able to live with it if that's the pick we made. He's got decent offensive upside.

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03-31-2013, 03:16 PM
  #328
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Lots and lots of character/3rd liners in the system. It's time to start using picks on high upside players.

We can find plenty of heart and soul in rounds 3/4/5.

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03-31-2013, 03:26 PM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Lots and lots of character/3rd liners in the system. It's time to start using picks on high upside players.

We can find plenty of heart and soul in rounds 3/4/5.
Exactly. First two rounds should be boom/bust with high talent. We can live with 2 busts, but even 1 boom could put us over the top.

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03-31-2013, 03:26 PM
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Lots and lots of character/3rd liners in the system. It's time to start using picks on high upside players.

We can find plenty of heart and soul in rounds 3/4/5.
Totally agree. We can find character crashers and bangers later in the draft with good scouting.

Rather go for the skill players in the first 2 rounds.

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03-31-2013, 03:37 PM
  #331
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Tired of the "safe" picks. It's time for an injection of high-end talent.

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03-31-2013, 03:43 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Tired of the "safe" picks. It's time for an injection of high-end talent.
Fucale, Dickinson, Lekhonen all interest me in the mid-late twenties as players with huge upside.

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03-31-2013, 03:52 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
Fucale, Dickinson, Lekhonen all interest me in the mid-late twenties as players with huge upside.
Liking the optimism bro

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03-31-2013, 04:09 PM
  #334
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It disgusts me that we are apparently satisfied selecting 3rd/4th line players with our first round pick.

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03-31-2013, 04:17 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Tired of the "safe" picks. It's time for an injection of high-end talent.
I'm with Ernie .. The Leafs organization from the big club to the junior level is stocked with character, gritty, tough players that are safer picks and will be good bottom 6ers

Time to get that mid-late first round skill guy .. A potential Eberle, Giroux, etc ... A kid who can develop out of the spotlight with the Leafs starting to win again, and hopefully come out of no where to be a stud

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03-31-2013, 04:19 PM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epictetus View Post
It disgusts me that we are apparently satisfied selecting 3rd/4th line players with our first round pick.
Some people value "intangibles" a lot. Which is fine; everyone weights certain qualities differently.

I just don't think it's a very efficient use of your 1st and 2nd round picks.

Here, thar be gamebreakers

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03-31-2013, 04:47 PM
  #337
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If we're looking for high end potential in the mid-late first round, Valentin Zykov is a guy to watch.

He played great in his first year in the Q, and he's keeping up the pace so far in the playoffs. He's already got good size, and great offensive potential, and he's not even 18 years old yet.
Russian factor is pretty much non-existent with him. I think he'd be fine with living in Toronto, seeing as he was willing to move to Baie-Comeau of all places.

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03-31-2013, 05:51 PM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epictetus View Post
It disgusts me that we are apparently satisfied selecting 3rd/4th line players with our first round pick.

Being a Leaf's fan = tempered expectations


But yes I fully agree, swing for the fences here don't draft a 3rd liner in this strong/deep 1st round..in my wildest dreams, Nichsushkin free falls and we take him...or he falls into a range we can realistically trade up to (ie 15ish). This is also why I'm all for drafting a goalie (Fucale) with star potential outside the top 15 or so...

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03-31-2013, 05:52 PM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Mayhew View Post
Bo Horvat and Ryan Hartman look like good picks in the 18-24 range.

How nice would Leivo-Horvat/Hartman-Biggs be as a third line in 2 years?

EDIT: Also, did anyone else notice that Ryan Hartman is listed as 6'2 now according to ISS? He's grown just like he said he would. Would be a fantastic choice.
I think that must be a misprint, Ryan is closer to 6'0 than 6'2.

Though he does come from a family of late growth types.

Hartman has a heart of a lion, we have drafted Kadri and Reilly high end, high risk talent types when they are available, it's funny why some posters keep insisting we don't. You don't win with 22 guys that all have high end talent flying around out there, that's unrealistic and not how you build a team considering when our turn is going to be closer to 20 than 5 this year.

Hartman has more going for him than Domi, Erne, Lazar, or Rychel. The usual suspects. He Will be a fan favourite I predict anywhere he lands and a core piece.

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03-31-2013, 06:03 PM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Being a Leaf's fan = tempered expectations


But yes I fully agree, swing for the fences here don't draft a 3rd liner in this strong/deep 1st round..in my wildest dreams, Nichsushkin free falls and we take him...or he falls into a range we can realistically trade up to (ie 15ish). This is also why I'm all for drafting a goalie (Fucale) with star potential outside the top 15 or so...
I'm all for drafting Seth Jones, Valeri Nichushkin, or Jon Drouin with our first pick. But fact is we are going to be picking anywhere from 18-22 this draft unless we fall apart like last year.

You take the BPA, not the most talented player available as some have it here, talent without the right kind of insides can stick us with Mikhail Stefanovich, or remind us of Nik Filatov.

But if we have to, Justin Bailey is a guy I may swing for the fences with, the kid has big potential, which is hidden behind a deep Kitchener team.

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03-31-2013, 07:14 PM
  #341
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I don't see Horvat as a "safe" pick, he's got his defensive game refined and has a man's body to which I still see some growth occurring and he's developing his offensive game. I personally see him having a big jump in point production with the Knights next year and being on Team Canada in a similar role as Boone Jenner.

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03-31-2013, 07:18 PM
  #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Being a Leaf's fan = tempered expectations


But yes I fully agree, swing for the fences here don't draft a 3rd liner in this strong/deep 1st round..in my wildest dreams, Nichsushkin free falls and we take him...or he falls into a range we can realistically trade up to (ie 15ish). This is also why I'm all for drafting a goalie (Fucale) with star potential outside the top 15 or so...
It's almost like people think that if "character" and "leadership" aren't mentioned as highlights of a player's scouting report, that they're in the negative in those columns. Very rarely, in a game such as hockey, do you find poor character kids. The ones who are, stand out like a sore thumb.

Kids with the high-end talent are just fine. Kids can have character, but not be known for it. They can be leaders, but not vocal ones. They can possess great skill, but also have a hard working, hard-hat attitude about playing the game.

I think what I'm saying, is that I want a kid that is KNOWN for his skill-set. I want a kid that stands out because he has an NHL shot, and great wheels, or he's a defender who plays a heads up game, that has offensive potential that needs to be refined. When you're picking in the twenties, you have to start looking at things that stand out.

You look at a guy like Rychel, for example. He has an NHL shot, plays a physical game, plays his best hockey in front of the net, and can fight. He has a ton of tools that you want in a player. He didn't give up, despite the Spits being all but put away. His issues involve his skating (which isn't that bad to begin with), and questions about his effort level on some nights. These are things that are EASILY fixable. You get this player, with this package, around a coach like Eakins, and further, Carlyle, and you're looking at a kid with the potential to be like James Neal. He's got the offensive upside (back-to-back 40 goal years on piss poor teams), he fights for his team, he hits, etc. This is the kind of guy that this team needs now. I'm of the mind that drafting a power forward with scoring upside, to play alongside Kadri in the future, is necessary. This is a guy that will open up even more space on the ice, and act as a security guard, as well as bury the chances Naz sets him up for.

We need to start adding these pieces with high potential, because our scouting staff has spent the last 4 years drafting the depth guys, the character guys, the gritty guys. We have now essentially drafted enough guys that we shouldn't have to overspend for 3rd and 4th line guys in free agency. We'll have 2nd/3rd/4th line guys developing in our own system, and graduating to the big club, or netting us returns as trade chips. We have the ability now, I believe, to start taking the chances on the high potential kids like Rychel/Mantha/Zykov/Petan etc., and letting them develop, in hopes they reach that potential, and add some star power to the lineup down the road, which will allow us to trade guys like Kulemin, Lupul, Kessel, etc., when they get older and begin to decline. If you have guys waiting in the wings, it allows you to trade players for high value, and start a cycle of drafting and development that keeps your team competitive for long stretches of years at a time.

That's what I want. Let's start thinking forward, and drafting for when the Lupul's, JVR's, and Kessel's either want more money than we should be paying, or decline.

/rant

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03-31-2013, 08:17 PM
  #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishManSam View Post
I don't see Horvat as a "safe" pick, he's got his defensive game refined and has a man's body to which I still see some growth occurring and he's developing his offensive game. I personally see him having a big jump in point production with the Knights next year and being on Team Canada in a similar role as Boone Jenner.
I agree, there's more to Horvat that is widely believed on these boards.

He's like Zadorov, the offence is untapped but this is what makes these type of picks unsafe, if you pigeon hole them into a safe pick based on untapped offensive games.

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03-31-2013, 08:34 PM
  #344
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Him being a +15 this year probably has something to do with that. Really? Criticize a player based on one showing when there is a whole season's worth of sample size?
One showing that happened, but not when they were eliminated.

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/s...how/game/64373

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03-31-2013, 08:39 PM
  #345
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2008- Safe
2009- Home run
2011- Safe
2012- Home run

We are on track for a safe pick!!!

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03-31-2013, 08:42 PM
  #346
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Mckeens Hockey sounds the Alarm Bells

Quote:
Rimouski center Frederik Gauthier is one of the developing wildcards for this draft. There was talk over the opening months that Gauthier might challenge the top 10 as he appeared to be shaping into a big two-way force. However, since suffering a broken jaw, his play has regressed alarmingly with the edgy physical side he displayed earlier giving way to a more tentative version. He’s also let his defensive play slide, an area once considered a given area of strength.

There are also growing concerns about Prince Albert blueliner Josh Morrissey and specifically whether he will develop the strength and jam to defend at the next level. There’s not much push-back to his game and his lean body is getting knocked around pretty good as the playoff race thickens.

Medicine Hat winger Hunter Shinkaruk can expect a similar rough ride against NHL bodies, however his stock has softened over questions about his vision and game sense – even despite the impressive stat totals. A strong playoff push from Shinkaruk would help put him back in the top-ten discussions.

It hasn’t been a great campaign for Andre Burakowsky of Malmo, a significant faller in this month’s McKeen’s top 30 rankings. A detailed report on Burakowsky and his progress to date will be published shortly on the site.
I am surprised they question Shinkaruk's hockey sense in particular. Morrisey sounds like Jake Gardiner, and Gauthier got the kiss of death by being touted here.

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03-31-2013, 08:54 PM
  #347
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I am surprised they question Shinkaruk's hockey sense in particular. Morrisey sounds like Jake Gardiner, and Gauthier got the kiss of death by being touted here.
I agree on Shinkaruk -- his vision is his strength. I like Gauthier. 6 lines of unsourced scouting on the Internet's not really convincing me otherwise

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03-31-2013, 08:56 PM
  #348
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I agree on Shinkaruk -- his vision is his strength. I like Gauthier. 6 lines of unsourced scouting on the Internet's not really convincing me otherwise
Shinkaruk is a nice player, perhaps out of our reach this year with us most likely in the playoffs. But he's one I do like, not sure I agree with Mckeens questioning his hockey IQ

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03-31-2013, 09:10 PM
  #349
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Morrissey's strength does need work, but a lot of prospects do need to get stronger to get to the NHL level. That's something he can work on and get better at, but his I.Q. and abilities with the puck are very good and something you can't teach. Not alotta lists have him this high, but imo, he's a top 15 pick. That said, the Leafs have an abundance of LH offensive d-men, so I'm not sure they'll take him.

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03-31-2013, 10:07 PM
  #350
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Gauthier is fcing major fatigue. Played a ton more this year than he ever has.

His coaches were saying something to that effect.

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