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12/13 Draft Thread: The top 5 sucks, late first-round picks rule.

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Old
04-11-2013, 08:01 AM
  #526
Faltorvo
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In the 20 range and things being relatively equal, do we not need some top 6 C depth in the system?

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04-11-2013, 09:36 AM
  #527
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
In the 20 range and things being relatively equal, do we not need some top 6 C depth in the system?
IMHO the potential top 6 centers will be gone by the time we're selecting...Wennberg I think will be gone, Gauthier I'm not really sold on as a top 6.

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04-11-2013, 09:41 AM
  #528
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I thonk RIGHT NOW, Gauthier tops out at 2C, but as a big guy, they always break out late, so who knows.

Drafting a future 2/3C isn't a bad idea at all.

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04-11-2013, 09:47 AM
  #529
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Is the hockey news draft preview out yet?

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04-11-2013, 09:48 AM
  #530
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
I thonk RIGHT NOW, Gauthier tops out at 2C, but as a big guy, they always break out late, so who knows.

Drafting a future 2/3C isn't a bad idea at all.
It only took Antropov about 10 years to put it together, and Colborne was drafted 5 years back now...prolly a big reason why I'm not feeling Gauthier.

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04-11-2013, 09:56 AM
  #531
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
He's doesn't possess the intensity, nor the strength to battle in front of the net, and in the corners, from what I've been told. He seems so much like Bryan McCabe, it just turns me off a little.

I wouldn't be completely destroyed if we picked him, but I think there's more potential at forward, and with Fucale, at our pick. I don't think Pulock falls that far either.

To me a lack of intensity and strength does not sound like McCabe to me. Not great hockey iq or decision making were McCabe's downside.

I've read reports of Pulock being physically strong, so I'm not sure if you're right there...maybe the lack of intensity in battles has more to do with him playing injured? Even if true, these are things that can be improved...he's got some good things going for him:

-100mph slapper
-RH
-desire to be a Leaf
-good hockey sense
-decent size and strength
-plays a cerebral game which sould make him a good partner for Rielly, Gardiner, or Phaneuf


Last edited by Sundinisagod: 04-11-2013 at 10:01 AM.
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04-11-2013, 10:15 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Like I said, wouldn't necessarily be upset, but we could do better. Potential is there to hit a home run. I think we have afforded ourselves the opportunity to take a swing, after years of safe, steady picks.

We have stocked the system with the character, steady, yadda yadda. While I don't want a player lacking character, there isn't anyone in the 1st that fits that description, so why not shoot for the stars on a Mantha/Fucale type of pick?

One could be a goal scoring, dominant winger, the other could be an all star goaltender. We could use both.

I'm totally on board with Fucale and Mantha, but I think Pulock has similarly high upside, and frankly he fills an immediate need more than Fucale and Mantha. All of our RH D are more of the 3rd pairing or even AHL variety, while we're stacked on the left. We have 3 great wingers, a good young goalie, but zero top pairing RH defenders.

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04-11-2013, 10:40 AM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
To me a lack of intensity and strength does not sound like McCabe to me. Not great hockey iq or decision making were McCabe's downside.

I've read reports of Pulock being physically strong, so I'm not sure if you're right there...maybe the lack of intensity in battles has more to do with him playing injured? Even if true, these are things that can be improved...he's got some good things going for him:

-100mph slapper
-RH
-desire to be a Leaf
-good hockey sense
-decent size and strength
-plays a cerebral game which sould make him a good partner for Rielly, Gardiner, or Phaneuf
Maybe it's not growing up in Toronto, but this means VERY LITTLE to me. I don't really care who a kid's favourite team was growing up, who their parents cheered for, etc. just like Kadri, they'll become Leaf fans when we draft them. This whole thing is wayyyyyy overblown by our fan base. Guys who are drafted by your team tend to have the determination to prove you made a good choice, and will do everything in their power to do anything for their club. This local/fan stuff is nonsense. How many local kids come home when they have the opportunity to? The actual answer is very, very few.

If we're in the business of feel-good stories, and making dreams come true, extending our work in children's hospitals, to our troops, and our communities is fine by me.

I'm not against Pulock, but he's not my first choice, even at D, in that range. I think we can do better. He's dropping across the board, and there are reasons for it. Maybe some question his pro upside; that his shot has topped out, and there isn't all that far for him to grow his game. I'm not a pro scout, and have only seen him on rare occasions, when they play Portland/Seattle.

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Old
04-11-2013, 10:45 AM
  #534
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anyone have a list of big scoring two way centers or #1 goalie prospects in this draft that you can pick in the 2nd half of the 1st round. We should be focusing on a center or goalie in this draft.

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04-11-2013, 10:45 AM
  #535
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I'd love Fucale as a mid 20s pick but dunno if a team would go off the board and snag him kinda early

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04-11-2013, 10:55 AM
  #536
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
In the 20 range and things being relatively equal, do we not need some top 6 C depth in the system?
Thats the ideal situation, but knowing how our management team has delt with things in the past, I don't think they look at position that much. They will take who they think is the best player available. I was convinced we were taking Forsberg with the first pick last year, as we could really use a top six forward more than a defenceman.

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04-11-2013, 11:00 AM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Didact View Post
anyone have a list of big scoring two way centers or #1 goalie prospects in this draft that you can pick in the 2nd half of the 1st round. We should be focusing on a center or goalie in this draft.
Again, we wont focus on a player based on position and we shouldn't. Kadri was drafted in 2009 and has finally established himself in the NHL at 2013, and that is a pick we had #7 overall. We have finally taken a much more patient approach to developing young players, so its not unreasonable to expect this pick to take 3-5 years before he becomes an NHL regular. By that time our needs are probably completely different.

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04-11-2013, 11:05 AM
  #538
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From where we will likely pick if Pulock is available I'd be ecstatic. If not, I'm on the Fucale train.

I realize you go for BPA but Fucale would be an excellent boost to an otherwise thin section of our prospect pool. That's not to say forward isn't also thin, because it is.

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Old
04-11-2013, 11:16 AM
  #539
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
I'm totally on board with Fucale and Mantha, but I think Pulock has similarly high upside, and frankly he fills an immediate need more than Fucale and Mantha. All of our RH D are more of the 3rd pairing or even AHL variety, while we're stacked on the left. We have 3 great wingers, a good young goalie, but zero top pairing RH defenders.
Pulock wont drop as far as u want him too.

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04-11-2013, 11:18 AM
  #540
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Originally Posted by Dark Passenger View Post
Again, we wont focus on a player based on position and we shouldn't. Kadri was drafted in 2009 and has finally established himself in the NHL at 2013, and that is a pick we had #7 overall. We have finally taken a much more patient approach to developing young players, so its not unreasonable to expect this pick to take 3-5 years before he becomes an NHL regular. By that time our needs are probably completely different.
this. and its about damn time Toronto did something about it.

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04-11-2013, 12:01 PM
  #541
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Yes Sir, that's me.

Kid is really smart, skates well, and has some solid offensive upside. I think Butcher in the 3rd/4th round is a GREAT spot to take a Dman with good upside.

1.Mantha/Erne/Rychel/Hagg/Fucale/Gauthier
2. Dano/Jarry/Comrie
3. M-O Roy
3/4. Butcher

We walk away from that draft with some GREAT pieces moving forward.

Here's a question. If we have the 20-22 pick and our top choices are already taken and your left with a choice of Horvat, Hagg or Zykov (for instance). If the option is there to trade back for a late first + early second or two early seconds with Montreal, Columbus, or Anaheim would you do it?

You would get 5 players you want instead of 4.

Horvat + Jarry + Roy + Butcher

or

Dano + Jarry + De la Rose + Roy + Butcher

Which package would you take (substituting whatever realistic names you want in those slots)?

Like I said, it depends who's still on the board, but if all the players I really want are taken I'd certainly move back to have a shot at two players I like.

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04-11-2013, 12:25 PM
  #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Maybe it's not growing up in Toronto, but this means VERY LITTLE to me. I don't really care who a kid's favourite team was growing up, who their parents cheered for, etc. just like Kadri, they'll become Leaf fans when we draft them. This whole thing is wayyyyyy overblown by our fan base. Guys who are drafted by your team tend to have the determination to prove you made a good choice, and will do everything in their power to do anything for their club. This local/fan stuff is nonsense. How many local kids come home when they have the opportunity to? The actual answer is very, very few.

If we're in the business of feel-good stories, and making dreams come true, extending our work in children's hospitals, to our troops, and our communities is fine by me.

I'm not against Pulock, but he's not my first choice, even at D, in that range. I think we can do better. He's dropping across the board, and there are reasons for it. Maybe some question his pro upside; that his shot has topped out, and there isn't all that far for him to grow his game. I'm not a pro scout, and have only seen him on rare occasions, when they play Portland/Seattle.
I wouldn't have even mentioned "desire to be a Leaf" if there wasn't a lot more to it than simply being fan of the team.

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04-11-2013, 12:27 PM
  #543
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Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
Pulock wont drop as far as u want him too.
Probably not, but I could see him dropping out of the top 15, to a spot where we could trade up for him without giving up the farm.

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04-11-2013, 12:31 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by TheMadHatTrick View Post
Here's a question. If we have the 20-22 pick and our top choices are already taken and your left with a choice of Horvat, Hagg or Zykov (for instance). If the option is there to trade back for a late first + early second or two early seconds with Montreal, Columbus, or Anaheim would you do it?

You would get 5 players you want instead of 4.

Horvat + Jarry + Roy + Butcher

or

Dano + Jarry + De la Rose + Roy + Butcher

Which package would you take (substituting whatever realistic names you want in those slots)?

Like I said, it depends who's still on the board, but if all the players I really want are taken I'd certainly move back to have a shot at two players I like.
Eeeek!

There's a lot of choice there. i think I drop back and take:

Lekhonen + Dano + Roy

Then the goalie from Chicoutimi, then Butcher.

Lekhonen is a first class talent, that much like Teuvo last year, lacks in the size Dept.

In Dano you get a prospective top-6 winger with scoring ability and great speed.

In Roy, you get a guy who works hard and plays both ways, with scoring upside.

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04-11-2013, 12:37 PM
  #545
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Really hoping Justin Bailey falls to us in Rd. 2. He likely wont. He's got untapped potential and an athletic pedigree.

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04-11-2013, 12:47 PM
  #546
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
I wouldn't have even mentioned "desire to be a Leaf" if there wasn't a lot more to it than simply being fan of the team.
Yeah Ryan's desire to be a Maple Leaf is more due to his deceased brother who was a huge Leafs fan and honouring that memory. Incase some didn't know.

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04-11-2013, 12:50 PM
  #547
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
In Dano you get a prospective top-6 winger with scoring ability and great speed.

In Roy, you get a guy who works hard and plays both ways, with scoring upside.
I love Dano's game. He's gritty with skill and his compete is excellent. Same reason I like Roy as well. Both are also strong skaters. For me if it's a trade back scenario I go Jarry, Dano, de la rose/Heatherington, Roy in the second and third.

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04-11-2013, 12:51 PM
  #548
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this. and its about damn time Toronto did something about it.
It's always BPA available, we went through this last year. Rielly was the prize, if we drafted by position we would have missed out on a damn good prosect.

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04-11-2013, 12:59 PM
  #549
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Really hoping Justin Bailey falls to us in Rd. 2. He likely wont. He's got untapped potential and an athletic pedigree.
I can't see how this guy gets near the 1st round. I know it's just stats, but his 30 pt season isn't gonna help him when there are a handful of other forwards that have all the intangibles and score a lot more as well.

I wonder if this is another case of being enamoured with size. Even still then there is Mantha, a 40 goal scorer. Gauthier, a ppg defensive center.

I don't know if he plays with much grit, but if that's what you want, there's Hartmann, Rychel and Lazar that outscore him by a lot. His numbers are bad for a player in his situation, if you consider him a 1st rounder. He's a late 2nd, early 3rd project to me. Maybe even a 4th.

In the 20-40 range there are so many better options at forward. I don't see how he gets in there.

People talk about him because he's been on the radar of scouts in the know for a few years now. He grew up around NHL players in BUF and is the son of a Buffalo Bill, albeit abandoned, and good on him for persevering in spite of his absentee father. I can admire that.

But he's been on the radar because he's always been bigger then his class, and he's used that to his advantage at all times. Now he's playing against elite kids, and can't do what he used to yet. He may still round out, but I wouldn't waste a 1st or early 2nd on a project like that.

I think he should've went to Michigan State like he originally planned. It may do better for his development. He still has 2 more years of OHL eligibility, but I think we Canadians can agree he may be better off with a better jr coach then Scott.

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04-11-2013, 01:12 PM
  #550
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I can't see how this guy gets near the 1st round. I know it's just stats, but his 30 pt season isn't gonna help him when there are a handful of other forwards that have all the intangibles and score a lot more as well.

I wonder if this is another case of being enamoured with size. Even still then there is Mantha, a 40 goal scorer. Gauthier, a ppg defensive center.

I don't know if he plays with much grit, but if that's what you want, there's Hartmann, Rychel and Lazar that outscore him by a lot. His numbers are bad for a player in his situation, if you consider him a 1st rounder. He's a late 2nd, early 3rd project to me. Maybe even a 4th.

In the 20-40 range there are so many better options at forward. I don't see how he gets in there.

People talk about him because he's been on the radar of scouts in the know for a few years now. He grew up around NHL players in BUF and is the son of a Buffalo Bill, albeit abandoned, and good on him for persevering in spite of his absentee father. I can admire that.

But he's been on the radar because he's always been bigger then his class, and he's used that to his advantage at all times. Now he's playing against elite kids, and can't do what he used to yet. He may still round out, but I wouldn't waste a 1st or early 2nd on a project like that.

I think he should've went to Michigan State like he originally planned. It may do better for his development. He still has 2 more years of OHL eligibility, but I think we Canadians can agree he may be better off with a better jr coach then Scott.
I will agree with you in the sense that he's not a first rounder, however the reason his stats aren't where other players are is because he plays on the 3rd and 4th line in Kitchener. He's buried behind a deep Kitchener offense with the likes of Leivo, Puempel, Faksa, Rieder, etc. Whereas a lot of the other guys you mentioned have been getting 1st and 2nd line minutes for most of the year.

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