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12/13 Draft Thread: The top 5 sucks, late first-round picks rule.

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Old
04-21-2013, 08:23 PM
  #801
Leaf Rocket
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I want more skill being added to the cupboard this upcoming draft, we have a lot of hard workers. I want a guy with immense skill but as well a good ethic...

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04-21-2013, 08:59 PM
  #802
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I want more skill being added to the cupboard this upcoming draft, we have a lot of hard workers. I want a guy with immense skill but as well a good ethic...
I think you'll have to accept some risk and take a player with a flaw.

You don't get the best prospects at 30.

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04-21-2013, 09:05 PM
  #803
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I would be so happy if we could get shinkaruk, think he has some major skill, and we could go for a high risk, high reward player that needs time developing.

If hes taken I wouldnt mind fucale, havent seen much but looks like he could be a solid option and add strength to our goalie prospects.

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04-22-2013, 12:26 AM
  #804
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I think you'll have to accept some risk and take a player with a flaw.

You don't get the best prospects at 30.
Looking for only skill guys is faulty, let's look at the 2003 draft. Corey Perry was not considered the fastest, or most skilled guy at #29, but Anaheim saw other things in him and the rest as they say is history. You are correct, better be prepared to take a player with flaws if skill is the only prerequisite where we are drafting, Claude Giroux's come a long only once a decade. Might end up with a Rico Fata type more likely.

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04-22-2013, 09:51 AM
  #805
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we need more top end skill and perhaps a few boom or bust type prospects.

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04-22-2013, 10:03 AM
  #806
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Looking for only skill guys is faulty, let's look at the 2003 draft. Corey Perry was not considered the fastest, or most skilled guy at #29, but Anaheim saw other things in him and the rest as they say is history. You are correct, better be prepared to take a player with flaws if skill is the only prerequisite where we are drafting, Claude Giroux's come a long only once a decade. Might end up with a Rico Fata type more likely.
Yeah expecting to find a player with little or no flaws after the top 3 or maybe the top 5, is expecting far too much. At the place where we are going to be picking (I expect between 18 and 24) you have to realize that plyaers will have flaws. So a guy like Ruchel with high upside might be a good pick even though his skating might be a little on the average or lower side. Or a guy like Pulock who might fall because of injury. Or a guy like Petan even though he's on the smallest (in the draft anyways) side.

This is one of the reasons I'm against drafting by character in the first. It's dangerous. If you can get a guy with high upside and character, then sure go for it. But going by chracter leads to drafting like the Flames had for years going after blue collar hard working players and little upside in skill.

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04-22-2013, 02:33 PM
  #807
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Anyone know anything about Cole Linaker?

Meh 37 game regular season, but he's playing decently for Kelowna. 5 points in 11 playoff games. 6 foot 1 although severly underweight at 165.

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04-22-2013, 02:58 PM
  #808
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Yeah expecting to find a player with little or no flaws after the top 3 or maybe the top 5, is expecting far too much. At the place where we are going to be picking (I expect between 18 and 24) you have to realize that plyaers will have flaws. So a guy like Ruchel with high upside might be a good pick even though his skating might be a little on the average or lower side. Or a guy like Pulock who might fall because of injury. Or a guy like Petan even though he's on the smallest (in the draft anyways) side.

This is one of the reasons I'm against drafting by character in the first. It's dangerous. If you can get a guy with high upside and character, then sure go for it. But going by chracter leads to drafting like the Flames had for years going after blue collar hard working players and little upside in skill.
We've done enough of drafting with character first in mind. We have the guys who bring the leadership and grit in the system already. What we severely lack are skilled prospects who project into the future of the top-6, and to a lesser extent, a high end goaltending prospect. We're also in need of a mobile RHD.

Character isn't non-existent, just because it isn't the first trait mentioned. This isn't like recruiting in college football, where a lot of these kids are coming from rough areas, and have checkered pasts, or 2 kids at 18 years old, etc. We're talking about young hockey players. I like a guy that has his skills mentioned (great skater, NHL shot, vision, playmaking ability), and then they throw in "and he's a good solid kid", or a "humble kid". To me, however you lay it out, you don't build winning teams on 3rd line character guys alone. You need to have guys that will carry the mail offensively.

Whether we like it or not, there will come a day when guys like Kulemin, Lupul, Bozak, etc., will have to be replaced, whether it's by age, or by lack of production, or whatever. We need to start putting some skilled players in the system, and stock the pipeline again.

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04-22-2013, 03:26 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
We've done enough of drafting with character first in mind. We have the guys who bring the leadership and grit in the system already. What we severely lack are skilled prospects who project into the future of the top-6, and to a lesser extent, a high end goaltending prospect. We're also in need of a mobile RHD.

Character isn't non-existent, just because it isn't the first trait mentioned. This isn't like recruiting in college football, where a lot of these kids are coming from rough areas, and have checkered pasts, or 2 kids at 18 years old, etc. We're talking about young hockey players. I like a guy that has his skills mentioned (great skater, NHL shot, vision, playmaking ability), and then they throw in "and he's a good solid kid", or a "humble kid". To me, however you lay it out, you don't build winning teams on 3rd line character guys alone. You need to have guys that will carry the mail offensively.

Whether we like it or not, there will come a day when guys like Kulemin, Lupul, Bozak, etc., will have to be replaced, whether it's by age, or by lack of production, or whatever. We need to start putting some skilled players in the system, and stock the pipeline again.
you draft BPA and they you trade laterally. example: we took schenn instead of filatov..... we then traded schenn for a lateral version of himself on Forward. well if we drafted filatov (and for this im going to assume we would have screwed up his development too) we would have gotten a 3rd rounder out of him. although i would love to draft Fucale you should always go with BPA instead of positional need, you can always make a trade when the player is playing well in the NHL.... and get a even more valuable asset then the "positional need player" you drafted.

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04-22-2013, 03:29 PM
  #810
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you draft BPA and they you trade laterally. example: we took schenn instead of filatov..... we then traded schenn for a lateral version of himself on Forward. well if we drafted filatov (and for this im going to assume we would have screwed up his development too) we would have gotten a 3rd rounder out of him. although i would love to draft Fucale you should always go with BPA instead of positional need
I wasn't advocating drafting by positional need.

I was advocating drafting high offensive potential guys at the forward position. I was just assuming that the logical place to draft, unless someone like Ristolainen or Nurse plummets, is up front, or between the pipes. There are also a glut of forwards ranked in the 18-25 range, so it's quite likely a forward is BPA either way.

I'm looking at Rychel, Wennberg, Mantha, Gauthier.... any one of those could be of great use to the future of the club.

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04-22-2013, 03:39 PM
  #811
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Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
you draft BPA and they you trade laterally. example: we took schenn instead of filatov..... we then traded schenn for a lateral version of himself on Forward. well if we drafted filatov (and for this im going to assume we would have screwed up his development too) we would have gotten a 3rd rounder out of him. although i would love to draft Fucale you should always go with BPA instead of positional need, you can always make a trade when the player is playing well in the NHL.... and get a even more valuable asset then the "positional need player" you drafted.
BPA becomes a lot less defined after the first 5-10 picks. This year its about as clear as mud after about the first 8 or 9 picks. Hell even the top 5 is pretty far from clear. When you get to pick 25, there's going to be like 4 or 5 players that your scouts see as probably having similar value and thus positional need probably plays into things a little.

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04-22-2013, 06:14 PM
  #812
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Leafs look to be in the range of Curtis lazar. Who does he project to be? From the limited times I've seen him he seems to have some Ryan o'riley characteristics. Anyone seen him live?

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04-22-2013, 06:32 PM
  #813
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Leafs look to be in the range of Curtis lazar. Who does he project to be? From the limited times I've seen him he seems to have some Ryan o'riley characteristics. Anyone seen him live?
Lazar, cool name. Sign me up

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04-22-2013, 06:58 PM
  #814
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Yeah expecting to find a player with little or no flaws after the top 3 or maybe the top 5, is expecting far too much. At the place where we are going to be picking (I expect between 18 and 24) you have to realize that plyaers will have flaws. So a guy like Ruchel with high upside might be a good pick even though his skating might be a little on the average or lower side. Or a guy like Pulock who might fall because of injury. Or a guy like Petan even though he's on the smallest (in the draft anyways) side.

This is one of the reasons I'm against drafting by character in the first. It's dangerous. If you can get a guy with high upside and character, then sure go for it. But going by chracter leads to drafting like the Flames had for years going after blue collar hard working players and little upside in skill.
I love Pulock, but I would be surprised if he fell to us. Hoping but not expecting it.

I would swing for the fences with Justin Bailey, there's something about this kid that screams massive potential to me. Plus, yes he's a character kid.

So rather than the safe usual names at around 20, Bailey is a guy I would take a shot with. He's the type of boom pick that can make a scout's lifetime rep on.

CRED.

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04-22-2013, 10:26 PM
  #815
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Lazar, Zykov, Gauthier, or Rychel and if two of those are available when the Leafs choose, they should obtain another pick.

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04-22-2013, 11:29 PM
  #816
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If you are looking at high risk, high reward players, do they come any more qualified than Petan? For me, unless Shinkaruk or Ristolainen drop, he'd be the guy i'd take. Talent is off the charts, but he's small, which I personally could care less about.

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04-23-2013, 01:48 AM
  #817
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alot of talk about Anthony Mantha, will he fall?

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04-23-2013, 02:31 AM
  #818
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alot of talk about Anthony Mantha, will he fall?
I highly doubt it. Would absolutely love to draft him, as guys his size, with his skill-set are hard to find, but I just can't see him falling into the 20's. he'll be snatched up early-mid teens, I think.

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04-23-2013, 02:52 AM
  #819
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I highly doubt it. Would absolutely love to draft him, as guys his size, with his skill-set are hard to find, but I just can't see him falling into the 20's. he'll be snatched up early-mid teens, I think.
Who knows really, Find me the person who thought Forsberg would slip out of the top 10 last year before the draft. Things happen, We got Finn in the 2nd round as well.

Bobby Mac usually says during the draft "It only takes a team to like one player better"

I think with Mantha people are looking at the stats(50 goals) and the physique and are going from there; But THN has him @ 24 and ISS has him @ 27 so I think he could be there when we pick.

I really think after the top 8 or so it'll be a shotgun spray.

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04-23-2013, 03:18 AM
  #820
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THe Leafs have had a pretty good time in drafting lesser known players. Antropov, Boyes, Raask, Kulemin are players that were not necessarily gift-wrapped for the leafs...some of them like antropov were picked out of nowhere and have had successes comparable to or better than the players drafted close to them.

Remember how Kadri was supposed to be drafted mid to later first round by most scouting agencies?? He is playing either better than or similar to players drafted near him.

Here's to drafting and retaining a gem.

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04-23-2013, 03:24 AM
  #821
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I would be so happy if we could get shinkaruk, think he has some major skill, and we could go for a high risk, high reward player that needs time developing.

If hes taken I wouldnt mind fucale, havent seen much but looks like he could be a solid option and add strength to our goalie prospects.
Looking at draft previews, I was amazed by how Kessel-like this guy is. Sure he may not have that shot, but other facets of his game are eerily similar. I caught a couple games of his...and from my unprofessional opinion developed from craptacular streams, if he's given the same opportunity Kessel was given in terms of TOI he'll surprise.

Still small though... I wonder how tall his parents are and if he has a similar hackey pedigree to Phil...

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04-23-2013, 03:27 AM
  #822
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Petan, Fucale, or Rychel and I am a happy man.

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04-23-2013, 03:31 AM
  #823
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I'd be happy if they pick Fucale if he drops to the Leafs pick. Hoping for Pulock though

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04-23-2013, 04:30 AM
  #824
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Is this the first year Petan is eligable?

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04-23-2013, 07:42 AM
  #825
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Who knows really, Find me the person who thought Forsberg would slip out of the top 10 last year before the draft. Things happen, We got Finn in the 2nd round as well.

Bobby Mac usually says during the draft "It only takes a team to like one player better"

I think with Mantha people are looking at the stats(50 goals) and the physique and are going from there; But THN has him @ 24 and ISS has him @ 27 so I think he could be there when we pick.

I really think after the top 8 or so it'll be a shotgun spray.
Yeah the draft is never the cookie cutter shape that many services and posters make it out to be. A player or two will fall in a big way, like every other year. A player will be drafted high, like every other year. Surprises happen and maybe it helps us out.

Not many people expeccted Teravainen to fall as far as he did last year. Not to mention Maata, Grigorenko, Forsberg. Not always because of something the player did. Forsberg likely fell just because a few teams had him behind one guy they liked better.

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