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Mtl gives beaulieu+ best offers

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Old
03-15-2013, 03:40 PM
  #76
Mrb1p
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Originally Posted by Nolan11 View Post
Given your Avatar, I would expect you would want Kristo and LeBlanc to come play for Larry Robinson's team!

The second is conditional on you liking Clowe enough to offer him an extension. So if he does not fit your style, you won't resign him. Personally, Clowe and Murray are both guys you would love to have on the ice versus Boston. They are tailor made for the style of play you are facing, and should help you in your run this year.

(While Murray is very slow, he is a great shot blocker and servicable #6. Clowe is snakebit, but he will break out of that shortly. He has had golden chances last few games, and does have 8 or 9 assists. Petrecki was formerly our top prospect, and may turn into someones crease clearing hulking #6D some day. One NHL game he played this year, he was just fine. We just have too much D depth to play him)

All of the above adds the size your fans have been wanting, without subtracting any current roster players. Our GM and fans want more for the package I am offering, but personally I think the value is mostly fair. (Maybe I should have added another pick coming our way in 2013 to make Shark fans happier, but I prefer to get some Top 9 forward prospects that could join our team sooner, rather than picks for 3-4 years down the road. Our pool is drained now. Time to ask for some immediate help).
Don't worry I know enough about you guys.

I'm not against getting one of them. All three of them would be redundant.
Clowe is not only snake bitten he's also incredibly slow and has fallen on every side of his play. He could be good on our third line but we already have Armstrong who's pretty much like him (Minus the fighting.)

Murray, I want no part of him on this team. He was once one of my favorite Dman in the league... But now he's not a regular player on a top team, sorry.

Petrecki, I think could be a good fill-in/Project but you wouldnt get much more from it.

All in all, I like Clowe... he could be a real asset playing on a line with Gally... But I'm not giving up Kristo and Leblanc for 1 year of him or two good years. Kristo and Leblanc are sure-fire NHLers for me.

Now if you want Gionta for Clowe, we could work a deal out with lesser prospect, but surely not Kristo. (See Kristo as Schultz this year.)

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03-15-2013, 03:42 PM
  #77
Drydenwasthebest
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Kristo is exactly what our team needs. A play making winger. I can guarantee you the Sharks take this and run as fast as they can.
Good. Since I want Clowe and Murray (and will accept Petrecki) I hope they take it and run with it. Kristo has a lot of potential. It will not be achieved in Montreal. Who is he going to replace in our top 6? How does he make us bigger? What grit and fighting does he bring? He is a very good point producing winger without size. He is prime trade bait for the type of player we need.

Please, San Jose, take the deal and run. I will drive Kristo and Leblanc to the airport myself.

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03-15-2013, 04:02 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Good. Since I want Clowe and Murray (and will accept Petrecki) I hope they take it and run with it. Kristo has a lot of potential. It will not be achieved in Montreal. Who is he going to replace in our top 6? How does he make us bigger? What grit and fighting does he bring? He is a very good point producing winger without size. He is prime trade bait for the type of player we need.

Please, San Jose, take the deal and run. I will drive Kristo and Leblanc to the airport myself.
Players like Clowe or Murray are best if you forget about them and move on instead of giving up decent young prospects for them. If you can get them for cheap on a decent short-term contract I don't mind but I've seen enough of these deals go south and teams are left with nothing but a bunch of has-beens.

Lots of teams have tried this over the years, it almost always end up being a bad idea.

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03-15-2013, 04:12 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Good. Since I want Clowe and Murray (and will accept Petrecki) I hope they take it and run with it. Kristo has a lot of potential. It will not be achieved in Montreal. Who is he going to replace in our top 6? How does he make us bigger? What grit and fighting does he bring? He is a very good point producing winger without size. He is prime trade bait for the type of player we need.

Please, San Jose, take the deal and run. I will drive Kristo and Leblanc to the airport myself.
You draft players like Clowe. You don't give up assets for them. (Unless you can sign them)

Oh and hockey games is won by putting the puck in the net. He's going to replace Gionta.
He's also 5'11. Which is 1 inch away from ''big''

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03-15-2013, 04:27 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
You draft players like Clowe. You don't give up assets for them. (Unless you can sign them)

Oh and hockey games is won by putting the puck in the net. He's going to replace Gionta.
He's also 5'11. Which is 1 inch away from ''big''
He is 5'11", 187 pounds at 22. He is not "big" in the sense that we need. He doesn't fight and is not known as a huge hitting machine. He is a piece we can use without hurting our current winning roster to get something we NEED: a big, hard hitting, winger who can and will drop the gloves. Kristo will not make our team this season. Clowe would play for us immediately. Kristo will not help us win a Cup this season. Clowe could. Yes, I am willing to give up a young player who will do nothing for us this season before giving up our Captain whose intangibles have helped this team far more than people realize. Why even bother pointing out his 27 goals in 82 game pace he is currently producing at, right? That is just a fluke pace since he has never done it before...oh, wait! I know that older players seem expendable to guys who like the shiny new young guys with potential. Ask the Oilers how many playoffs their shiny young guys with potential have come close to. We have shiny new young guys in Gallagher and Galchenyuk. We have developing young guys in Eller, Pacioretty, Subban, etc, and we have good veterans in Markov, Gionta, Plekanec, etc... Now we need the element we are missing: veteran size with point producing skill and the ability to hit and fight. Does that describe Kristo? No. It sure as heck describes Clowe. Please, don't be a guy who evaluates players based on a bad 25 games. Look at Clowe's entire career and recognize what our team NEEDS. Kristo is not it.

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03-15-2013, 04:35 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
He is 5'11", 187 pounds at 22. He is not "big" in the sense that we need. He doesn't fight and is not known as a huge hitting machine. He is a piece we can use without hurting our current winning roster to get something we NEED: a big, hard hitting, winger who can and will drop the gloves. Kristo will not make our team this season. Clowe would play for us immediately. Kristo will not help us win a Cup this season. Clowe could. Yes, I am willing to give up a young player who will do nothing for us this season before giving up our Captain whose intangibles have helped this team far more than people realize. Why even bother pointing out his 27 goals in 82 game pace he is currently producing at, right? That is just a fluke pace since he has never done it before...oh, wait! I know that older players seem expendable to guys who like the shiny new young guys with potential. Ask the Oilers how many playoffs their shiny young guys with potential have come close to. We have shiny new young guys in Gallagher and Galchenyuk. We have developing young guys in Eller, Pacioretty, Subban, etc, and we have good veterans in Markov, Gionta, Plekanec, etc... Now we need the element we are missing: veteran size with point producing skill and the ability to hit and fight. Does that describe Kristo? No. It sure as heck describes Clowe. Please, don't be a guy who evaluates players based on a bad 25 games. Look at Clowe's entire career and recognize what our team NEEDS. Kristo is not it.
How about you recognize that this is not a cup winning team 1st in the east sure that's great and I love winning games as much a the next guy but I see so many "what ifs" that show we are not a cup team this year maybe 2-3 years from now hell maybe next year but this year too many unknowns they have a great foundation for a cup team but are not there yet. I'm sorry if this is too much for you guys to handle but it's the truth and we should not give up assets that can be of assistance in those cup contending years right now for a player who's maximum production is in the past and this will be his most productive season for us if we get him. That is bob gainey thinking

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03-15-2013, 04:55 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Habsfannick View Post
How about you recognize that this is not a cup winning team 1st in the east sure that's great and I love winning games as much a the next guy but I see so many "what ifs" that show we are not a cup team this year maybe 2-3 years from now hell maybe next year but this year too many unknowns they have a great foundation for a cup team but are not there yet. I'm sorry if this is too much for you guys to handle but it's the truth and we should not give up assets that can be of assistance in those cup contending years right now for a player who's maximum production is in the past and this will be his most productive season for us if we get him. That is bob gainey thinking
Please tell me you are kidding? There are only TWO pieces we really need to put us into terrific position to make a serious Cup run: a power forward who can hit, fight, and score (something Clowe has done throughout his 7 year career, even if he is having some trouble scoring over the last 25 games), and a defensive defenceman who can hit, clear the net, and fight (Stoner would be ideal from Minnesota, but Murray could work out as an option). Get those two pieces, stay healthy, and we are going to be able to win a Cup this year, never mind in 2-3 years. This is a Cup contending year. This is the kind of year where you give up a couple of young assets for the veteran depth and role players you need. If the veteran is a guy who is young enough that you can possibly sign him for longer, that is a bonus. However, Kristo + for Clowe is EXACTLY the type of a deal a team in the playoff hunt makes in order to get over the hump and become a true contender.

I would be equally happy with Clarkson, Simmonds, or any other player in that mold and of that caliber. Same with Stoner or a defender like him. We have 2 NEEDS. Anything else is a bonus.

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03-15-2013, 04:55 PM
  #83
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There are plenty of what if's... The biggest being lack of size and grit throughout the lineup! In a 7 game series, with much looser plays before penalty calls, the Habs are in trouble against bigger stronger teams. Clowe and Murray add the size and muscle we need. Clowe especially fills the need for more size to help out smaller guys like Gionta, Gallagher and Desharnais and a rookie Galchenyuk.

Clowe gives the Habs a much stronger board presence and a player who will drive hard to the net causing traffic. That creates space for the smaller players to work their magic.

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03-15-2013, 04:59 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
There are plenty of what if's... The biggest being lack of size and grit throughout the lineup! In a 7 game series, with much looser plays before penalty calls, the Habs are in trouble against bigger stronger teams. Clowe and Murray add the size and muscle we need. Clowe especially fills the need for more size to help out smaller guys like Gionta, Gallagher and Desharnais and a rookie Galchenyuk.

Clowe gives the Habs a much stronger board presence and a player who will drive hard to the net causing traffic. That creates space for the smaller players to work their magic.
Thank you for understanding.

In every season there are always "what ifs". Heck, any serious long term injuries this season can derail us...or any other contending team, as well. However, as you pointed out, get a Clowe and see how he truly helps us in a series against bigger teams...as well as other teams. He makes space for others, and allows them to play a lot bigger than they are.

Thank you for the support.

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03-15-2013, 05:01 PM
  #85
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Clutterbuck(RFA with contract up at the end of this season) for Beaulieu + 2nd?

He speaks French, too

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03-15-2013, 05:01 PM
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Anyway we can't give so much non-roster players for 3 of them

I'm all for Clowe... but for any of Beaulieu, Kristo, Leblanc and Tinordi... It's a huge no.

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03-15-2013, 05:03 PM
  #87
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There's no way we're trading Beaulieu, we can't afford it. If Markov signs elsewhere after next season, we're left with 0 left stick offensive defensmen to replace him.

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03-15-2013, 05:07 PM
  #88
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David Booth?

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:45 PM
  #89
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Anyway we can't give so much non-roster players for 3 of them

I'm all for Clowe... but for any of Beaulieu, Kristo, Leblanc and Tinordi... It's a huge no.
Eller then? I assume that is an even bigger no! We might do Gionta for Clowe if you kept a million+ of his cap hit for next year. I don't see you doing that.

Sharks are not out of the play-off hunt. We certainly are out of the cup hunt IMHO, but playoffs are still likely. Clowe is a top 6 power-playmaker with unique skills. He is exactly the type of player you should try to add this year. We will only let him go before the TDL if the trade makes our team better either now, or in the future. Better now means a top 9 roster player coming back our way, plus a 2nd or so. Future would be a first and a blue chip forward, or two blue chip forawards.

Personally, Kristo is my target. A nearly NHL ready shooter with speed. 5-11 is no concern, Sharks are super sized but slow. We need shooters with speed. I understand wanting to keep Kristo. He should be a top 6 that would be fun to watch some day.

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03-15-2013, 05:49 PM
  #90
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Eller then? I assume that is an even bigger no! We might do Gionta for Clowe if you kept a million+ of his cap hit for next year. I don't see you doing that.

Sharks are not out of the play-off hunt. We certainly are out of the cup hunt IMHO, but playoffs are still likely. Clowe is a top 6 power-playmaker with unique skills. He is exactly the type of player you should try to add this year. We will only let him go before the TDL if the trade makes our team better either now, or in the future. Better now means a top 9 roster player coming back our way, plus a 2nd or so. Future would be a first and a blue chip forward, or two blue chip forawards.

Personally, Kristo is my target. A nearly NHL ready shooter with speed. 5-11 is no concern, Sharks are super sized but slow. We need shooters with speed. I understand wanting to keep Kristo. He should be a top 6 that would be fun to watch some day.
Either you think I'm some kind of fool or you're completely over-rating Clowe...

If you want Eller you'll need to give us your first and a prospect at least.

The only way anything makes sense on our side is if you take Gionta, Ryder, Kaberle off our hands and we give you a pick/prospect.

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03-15-2013, 05:57 PM
  #91
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Either you think I'm some kind of fool or you're completely over-rating Clowe...

If you want Eller you'll need to give us your first and a prospect at least.

The only way anything makes sense on our side is if you take Gionta, Ryder, Kaberle off our hands and we give you a pick/prospect.
Sorry, no I don't think you are a fool. I said Eller was an even bigger no. (Although I would love to have him.

I was trying to point out that other than Gionta, who some other of your fans don't want to trade and Sharks can not afford 5.0 Mil for next years 64.3 cap, you eliminated all your viable trade pieces (that I am familiar with).

If you want to bulk up for a cup run, Clowe should be your target. I see you don't think this is your year. Then I agree, wasting assets on a rental is not worth it for you. (I would try to sign Clowe next year if you have the opportunity). Personally, I think your team is good enough to take the east if you did add a top 6 without subtracting from your current core. (Murray in the equation is bonus options, not truly needed.) You would still need some bounces, but doesn't everybody.

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03-15-2013, 06:00 PM
  #92
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From Tampa Bay Lightning:

Purcell
Connolly/ Panik (both top6/top line, NHL ready prospects)
either of Lee or Brewer

From Montreal:
Emelin
Beaulieu

What do you guys think??

You would give up a Dman, a top prospect for a top line playmaking winger, a NHL ready top prospect (maybe not as top as Beaulieu, but still top ) and a bottom pairing Dman

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03-15-2013, 06:05 PM
  #93
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So if Montreal wanted Clowe or Clowe and Murray as rentals for this year, what would you propose offering to the Sharks? (We are near the cap for next year, with 7 NHL defensemen and are set in goal, too. Our need is for good skating top 9 forward tweeners or great picks)

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03-15-2013, 06:25 PM
  #94
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Clutterbuck(RFA with contract up at the end of this season) for Beaulieu + 2nd?

He speaks French, too
no thanks from montreal. not for that kind of overpayment

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03-15-2013, 06:26 PM
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From Tampa Bay Lightning:

Purcell
Connolly/ Panik (both top6/top line, NHL ready prospects)
either of Lee or Brewer

From Montreal:
Emelin
Beaulieu

What do you guys think??

You would give up a Dman, a top prospect for a top line playmaking winger, a NHL ready top prospect (maybe not as top as Beaulieu, but still top ) and a bottom pairing Dman
no from montreal

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03-15-2013, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Nolan11 View Post
So if Montreal wanted Clowe or Clowe and Murray as rentals for this year, what would you propose offering to the Sharks? (We are near the cap for next year, with 7 NHL defensemen and are set in goal, too. Our need is for good skating top 9 forward tweeners or great picks)
available: 1 or 2 2rounders, a 3rd...and either Kristo OR Leblanc. NOT both for two UFA's and certainly not Murray.

Murray MAY get you a D prospect like bennett or thrower - maybe pateryn but not ellis, tinordi, beaulieu or dietz. As you can see habs are loaded with very good D prospects


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03-15-2013, 07:00 PM
  #97
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available: 1 or 2 2rounders, a 3rd...and either Kristo OR Leblanc. NOT both for two UFA's and certainly not Murray.

Murray MAY get you a D prospect like bennett or thrower - maybe pateryn but not ellis, tinordi, bealulieu or dietz. As you can see habs are loaded with very good D prospects
So, of the above assets, I think Kristo and a second would be fair value for Clowe as a rental. Two 2nd rounders would also be fair, but I would not do that one. (only about 1/3 of second rounders turn out to be good nhlers. I think Kristo has a pretty good shot at making 100+ games in a top 9 role, plus sharks need help next year).

I know twitter was talking a 1st and a prospect for Clowe, but the above would work for me.

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03-15-2013, 07:08 PM
  #98
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Don't worry I know enough about you guys.

I'm not against getting one of them. All three of them would be redundant.
Clowe is not only snake bitten he's also incredibly slow and has fallen on every side of his play. He could be good on our third line but we already have Armstrong who's pretty much like him (Minus the fighting.)

Murray, I want no part of him on this team. He was once one of my favorite Dman in the league... But now he's not a regular player on a top team, sorry.

Petrecki, I think could be a good fill-in/Project but you wouldnt get much more from it.

All in all, I like Clowe... he could be a real asset playing on a line with Gally... But I'm not giving up Kristo and Leblanc for 1 year of him or two good years. Kristo and Leblanc are sure-fire NHLers for me.

Now if you want Gionta for Clowe, we could work a deal out with lesser prospect, but surely not Kristo. (See Kristo as Schultz this year.)

You are right, Murray has lost a step. I can see why you would not target him. He's still a force, but a slow one. Petrecki was more of a throw in on my part. No real value, other than potentially replacing Murray down the road/next year. Trying to give you some longer term value (as opposed to just two rentals).

I would be happy with Clowe for Kristo + 2nd
and trade Murray to the Penguins for Kennedy (different thread)

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03-15-2013, 07:12 PM
  #99
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So, of the above assets, I think Kristo and a second would be fair value for Clowe as a rental. Two 2nd rounders would also be fair, but I would not do that one. (only about 1/3 of second rounders turn out to be good nhlers. I think Kristo has a pretty good shot at making 100+ games in a top 9 role, plus sharks need help next year).

I know twitter was talking a 1st and a prospect for Clowe, but the above would work for me.
If Clowe is playing like a couple of years ago and under contract for a couple of more years, then a 1st + prospect is a fair price. But Clowe is going to be UFA this year and he is not playing well at all, I would be very surprised if a team is going to give a 1st + prospect for his service.

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03-15-2013, 07:19 PM
  #100
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So, of the above assets, I think Kristo and a second would be fair value for Clowe as a rental. Two 2nd rounders would also be fair, but I would not do that one. (only about 1/3 of second rounders turn out to be good nhlers. I think Kristo has a pretty good shot at making 100+ games in a top 9 role, plus sharks need help next year).

I know twitter was talking a 1st and a prospect for Clowe, but the above would work for me.
that's a lot but i think if i was Bergevin i would do it. a 2nd and Kristo - and yes I think Kristo would make the Sharks relatively soon. I'd like to talk to Clowe and see if we could get him signed to an extension. Kristo has NHL speed and is as close to being ready for pro - fits right into the habs system of skilled, fast up-tempo hockey. But with guys like collberg, hudon, vail around i could live with giving up Kristo

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