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Hustle and Bustle into 8th Place!, Jets win 3-1

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Old
03-15-2013, 11:13 AM
  #226
Skidooboy
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
How much better could Kane have been. Last year would have been his first year of AHL eligibility, but he was in the NHL and he had one of the best goal scoring 20 year old season in NHL history.

He is a beast as is and isn't lagging behind anybody in his draft class. Tavares, Hedman and Duchene are special players, but Kane is right in the conversation with them for best player in that draft class.

Everybody else is miles behind them.


I agree with the other 3 points though.
I think Kane could be much better. I think he could have learned about team play.
Kane has all the tools needed to be a league leader, He has the tools to be "special" but unlike some of the other "special" players in the league, he hasn't really learned the "team game" you need to make everyone else around you better.

I know I'm nit picking and he's young. I really hope he grows into that role. and he has done a ton to turn me around this year with his compete and energy.

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03-15-2013, 11:15 AM
  #227
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Interestingly enough... the amount of goals Jokinen is scoring 5v5 per minute is about the same as the last 4 seasons...

The difference is he has NO 5v5 assists (as Truck showed) and normally he's been pretty consistent on the PP... except this season...

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Old
03-15-2013, 11:22 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Skidooboy View Post
I think Kane could be much better. I think he could have learned about team play.
Kane has all the tools needed to be a league leader, He has the tools to be "special" but unlike some of the other "special" players in the league, he hasn't really learned the "team game" you need to make everyone else around you better.

I know I'm nit picking and he's young. I really hope he grows into that role. and he has done a ton to turn me around this year with his compete and energy.
I would argue that many top rated snipers and 'selfish' players stayed for their full junior/a year of AHL seasoning and didn't learn what your determining "team play".

IMO Kane usually does make the right play. Rarely do i actually see him in a position where the pass is actually a better option then the shot.

mostly because

A) he frequently has crappy linemates who i would trust to finish on an open net.
b)he's all alone on his rushes as his linemates cant keep up

Finally i think he's addressed this patience/vision issue well this season. He doesn't always get on his horse, sometime he holds up and waits for his teammates to get the zone, he also doesn't try the 1% success rate wrap around every time he's behind the net.

He back checks

he PK's

....he doesn't have the vision of a star playmaker, but he's got the vision of an average top 6 play maker, i don't know what your expecting.

also: statistically players score the most goals of their careers between 20-25 (i think its actually around 23/24, i'll have to find the article). Around 23-24 most snipers in the league see a shift to a more even assists/goals split.

If he had the playmaking of a st louis/datsuk/etc he'd be Crosby.

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03-15-2013, 11:29 AM
  #229
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I look at Olli and take the patient approach.

right now our team is in the midst of a winning stretch that I believe is largely leveraged off hot goaltending.....hello December 2011. Now I hope that lasts for a while but it might not. Also Ladd has been out of his skull since the start of the season and that is great. The problem with any of these situations is they are not static....they are highly volatile. The one thing we know about Olli is he has the pedigree to hang with our top point producers but he is a tad chilly right now......lord help us if one of our key forwards misses any time but there is a real chance before this season ends Olli could get hot and be one of our top producer and carry us for a stretch. Other lesser talented players will not be able to do that. We need the depth he provides and he is working very hard and plays a part in our wins right now so we need to relax a bit and let this thing play out.

Not to mention if we were to make the playoffs who's to say he doesn't find his game then and go on a run at the best of all possible times.

Jokinen has put up points all the way through his career and in some ways it’s a bonus we have been winning when he has been in a slump points wise because we might need him to heat up when and if others cool off.

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Old
03-15-2013, 11:31 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
I look at Olli and take the patient approach.

right now our team is in the midst of a winning stretch that I believe is largely leveraged off hot goaltending.....hello December 2011. Now I hope that lasts for a while but it might not. Also Ladd has been out of his skull since the start of the season and that is great. The problem with any of these situations is they are not static....they are highly volatile. The one thing we know about Olli is he has the pedigree to hang with our top point producers but he is a tad chilly right now......lord help us if one of our key forwards misses any time but there is a real chance before this season ends Olli could get hot and be one of our top producer and carry us for a stretch. Other lesser talented players will not be able to do that. We need the depth he provides and he is working very hard and he is a part of our wins right now so we need to relax a bit and let this thing play out.

Not to mention if we were to make the playoffs who's to say he doesn't find his game then and go on a run at the best of all possible times.

Jokinen has put up points all the way through his career and in some ways it’s a bonus we have been winning when he has been in a slump points wise because we might need him to heat up when and if others cool off.
olli need peluso to get healthy so we can reunite them with tangradi.

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03-15-2013, 11:32 AM
  #231
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I don't want to get into the debate again, but I don't really believe in clutch.

I really don't get the buy out talk either. Not sure what benefit there is in paying him 3MM to not play. Plus you'd still have to play to replace him.

He really hasn't been great, but he still has some skills and I think (hope) he will turn the corner.

As of now, he isn't scoring, he is playing easy minutes and he is a defensive liability.

I really thought we'd get more out of him. He needs to start putting up some points.
How is he exactly a defensive Liability?

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03-15-2013, 11:32 AM
  #232
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Interestingly enough... the amount of goals Jokinen is scoring 5v5 per minute is about the same as the last 4 seasons...

The difference is he has NO 5v5 assists (as Truck showed) and normally he's been pretty consistent on the PP... except this season...
Strange.

Do we know if he was QB'ing the pp in previous seasons or if he was bashing around down low? He's a big boy, after all.

No assists is a puzzle though. He's played some garbage minutes with some non-scorers but he's also played a bunch with Kane...

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Old
03-15-2013, 11:36 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Likelyhood of making the playoffs, given that the Jets finish with the following records:

PointsWLL-OTChance
56127299.8
 116499.7
55117398.4
 128198.9
54118294.8
 107493.6
53108382.5
 119186.3

Even going JUST over .500, at 11-9-1 gives them an 86% chance of making it into the playoffs, based on historical data.

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/NHL/E.../Winnipeg.html
Right now, the Jets' Points Percentage is .555. It they can maintain that over the last 21 games, they'll end up with 53 points. If they're better than that, then it's a lock.

The most frequently simmed point total for the Jets is 53. 9.4% of the the 2.9 billion sims resulted in the Jets ended up with 53 points, and in 84% of those sims, the Jets made the playoffs.

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03-15-2013, 11:42 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
While I agree...I firmly believe that his offense will come in time. For now, he's doing alot of other things right.
What other things? Hurrying on the backcheck to cover up for your own mistake isn't the plus it is made out to be?

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03-15-2013, 11:49 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
What other things? Hurrying on the backcheck to cover up for your own mistake isn't the plus it is made out to be?
He's pretty solid on his own zone. And he had a pretty good game last night as well, despite not registering any points last night. Maybe the stats say different, but to me it looked like a pretty great effort from Joki. I've only seen him have one bad game tbh, I can't remember who it was against where he had that terrible give away.

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03-15-2013, 11:54 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
He's pretty solid on his own zone. And he had a pretty good game last night as well, despite not registering any points last night. Maybe the stats say different, but to me it looked like a pretty great effort from Joki. I've only seen him have one bad game tbh, I can't remember who it was against where he had that terrible give away.
Hmm? Olli had 1a, 1p, +1 last night. 3 shots, 2 hits, 2 blocks, 53% in the FO, 20:01 TOI. A decent night.

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03-15-2013, 11:55 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
He's pretty solid on his own zone. And he had a pretty good game last night as well, despite not registering any points last night. Maybe the stats say different, but to me it looked like a pretty great effort from Joki. I've only seen him have one bad game tbh, I can't remember who it was against where he had that terrible give away.
I personally didn't see a bad game from Jokinen last night (defensively), but I did see one against Toronto. I thought he was the only "visibly poor" player for the Toronto game... statistically he was too. Only minus player, and the goon-plug-Orr line was able to out-scoringchance him.

That said, I do notice he's usually the first one to cover Byfuglien's defensive position when Buff pinches.

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03-15-2013, 11:57 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Wings View Post
Hmm? Olli had 1a, 1p, +1 last night. 3 shots, 2 hits, 2 blocks, 53% in the FO, 20:01 TOI. A decent night.
Oh he did get an assist. I was not aware.

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03-15-2013, 12:03 PM
  #239
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A few of you guys are really nit-picking a 3-1 win over a conference opponent with a lot of potential firepower.

Regarding Jokinen, he certainly isn't playing his best but he also does a lot of heavy work that goes uncredited on both the forecheck and as well down low in the Jets zone. He also adds some size to the team down the middle and I think that is one reason they've been more competitive this season, on the road and in back-to-back games for example. Bigger players are more able to withstand the physical grind against huge opponents. The Jets are a bigger team down the middle now and I sure think that Jokinen beats the current 175 pound option. Frankly, they are a much stronger team with him in the lineup down the middle and he was signed for that specific reason; he makes the team more difficult to play against.

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03-15-2013, 12:04 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Skidooboy View Post
I think Kane could be much better. I think he could have learned about team play.
Kane has all the tools needed to be a league leader, He has the tools to be "special" but unlike some of the other "special" players in the league, he hasn't really learned the "team game" you need to make everyone else around you better.

I know I'm nit picking and he's young. I really hope he grows into that role. and he has done a ton to turn me around this year with his compete and energy.
No offense and I apologize if this comes across as rude.... But do you actually understand what in the blue hell you are saying?! You're saying a 17 year old kid that put up 48 goals, 48 assists, and 96 points in the WHL while not being physically mature should have gone back for two more years and then played a year or two in another league that would have undoubtably been inferior to him at that point. Do you realize how little offense this team would have had last year and this year without him? I have high expectations for the kid too, but it seems like I'm one if the only son of a *****es that knows you have to be patient with these kids...

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Old
03-15-2013, 12:09 PM
  #241
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I dunno... i've liked jokinens play. i still think he's really snake bit. i also think it will correct itself, but over this shortened season, it's going to amplify his shortcomings and make it seem like he's worth less then he actually is.

I'll keep waiting for him to bounce back to his career normal's. And yes, even if that doesn't happen this year i would much rather we hold onto him going into next year. he's advanced numbers aren't brutal except for his "luck" numbers...

better stats people then myself (IE: more motivated stats people then myself) what would joki's production look like if he had his career average (or even just recent career average) pdo/shot numbers?

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03-15-2013, 12:42 PM
  #242
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I dunno... i've liked jokinens play. i still think he's really snake bit. i also think it will correct itself, but over this shortened season, it's going to amplify his shortcomings and make it seem like he's worth less then he actually is.

I'll keep waiting for him to bounce back to his career normal's. And yes, even if that doesn't happen this year i would much rather we hold onto him going into next year. he's advanced numbers aren't brutal except for his "luck" numbers...

better stats people then myself (IE: more motivated stats people then myself) what would joki's production look like if he had his career average (or even just recent career average) pdo/shot numbers?
Well I already put this in the stats thread...
But his 5v5 goals per minute and his 5v4 primary assists are pretty darn close to every year the last 4 seasons.
His 5v5 assists (both primary and secondary), and 5v4 goals and secondary assists have just *poof* disappeared. Not diminished... gone, none, zero.
I doubt that will stay like that forever. As a guy who tends to get most of his points on the PP... I suspect that as the PP improves, so will his production.

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03-15-2013, 12:53 PM
  #243
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No offense and I apologize if this comes across as rude.... But do you actually understand what in the blue hell you are saying?! You're saying a 17 year old kid that put up 48 goals, 48 assists, and 96 points in the WHL while not being physically mature should have gone back for two more years and then played a year or two in another league that would have undoubtably been inferior to him at that point. Do you realize how little offense this team would have had last year and this year without him? I have high expectations for the kid too, but it seems like I'm one if the only son of a *****es that knows you have to be patient with these kids...
I have maintained that Kane will develop into a more complete player, and have been more then impressed with him.

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03-15-2013, 12:55 PM
  #244
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Well I already put this in the stats thread...
But his 5v5 goals per minute and his 5v4 primary assists are pretty darn close to every year the last 4 seasons.
His 5v5 assists (both primary and secondary), and 5v4 goals and secondary assists have just *poof* disappeared. Not diminished... gone, none, zero.
I doubt that will stay like that forever. As a guy who tends to get most of his points on the PP... I suspect that as the PP improves, so will his production.
I definitely think the offensive production will come.

He is known as a streaky player, hopefully the down time is setting him up for a massive streak down the stretch.

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03-15-2013, 01:27 PM
  #245
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Haha, great trolling Winnipeg! Someone caught the interview on youtube. Check out Torts' face...



Also here's a video of the chant from a broadcast view, pretty darned loud.

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...ed-share-video

Can't wait for the playoffs!!!

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03-16-2013, 09:59 AM
  #246
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We're finally starting to get some media respect, outside of Winnipeg. NHL Insider Anaheim catches Chicago and 11 other predictions
Saw a tweet last night with an SI article predicting we will make the playoffs as well.

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