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04-16-2013, 03:35 PM
  #276
The Kingslayer
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
How do you expect him to learn to get shots through, if you don't have him on the PP at all?
He cant do it in any situation of the game 5 on 5, 5 on 4, 5 on 3. Never. Johnson shoooot blocked, Johnson shooot wide.

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04-16-2013, 03:35 PM
  #277
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Until he learns how to get shots through i dont want him on the PP at all sadly.
One reason he can't get shots through on the PP is because he is put on the right point where he can't one-time shots. These days few shooters will get shots through on the PP if they have to settle the puck down before shooting.

Avs PP is a work in progress. Some parts work well (Barrie/PAP as playmakers, O'Reilly on the point). Some parts don't (not enough shots from the back end unless Barrie and Elliott look to get wristers through).

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04-16-2013, 03:39 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
One reason he can't get shots through on the PP is because he is put on the right point where he can't one-time shots. These days few shooters will get shots through on the PP if they have to settle the puck down before shooting.

Avs PP is a work in progress. Some parts work well (Barrie/PAP as playmakers, O'Reilly on the point). Some parts don't (not enough shots from the back end unless Barrie and Elliott look to get wristers through).
I still dont know why the dman dont switch spots like we used to do all the time.

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04-16-2013, 03:43 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
One reason he can't get shots through on the PP is because he is put on the right point where he can't one-time shots. These days few shooters will get shots through on the PP if they have to settle the puck down before shooting.

Avs PP is a work in progress. Some parts work well (Barrie/PAP as playmakers, O'Reilly on the point). Some parts don't (not enough shots from the back end unless Barrie and Elliott look to get wristers through).
I know. It is ridiculous. I think there has only been 1 game where he played 1 shift on the left side of the PP. He usually gets the puck about 20 feet from the boards. Then he settles it down, and skates himself into the boards trying to get a lane. Then he runs out of room and skates down the wall with it behind the net. At this point the puck is turned over and the other team gets an odd manned rush. On the PP he should be used like Weber. He doesn't need to control the puck, or move around trying to find lanes. Duchene, Stastny, or ROR should be holding the puck and moving around creating a lane for EJ for a quick one timer. I have said for the last 2 years, our PP should be run by Duchene, Stastny, or ROR on the wall like Malkin does. Make the PK attack them on the boards giving the other players more room. PA has been doing a really good job at running it on the left side this season because he moves around and makes defenders come towards him.

I asked Dater to ask Sacco on one of his live chats about EJ playing the left side. He said it was a good point and that he would ask. Then the next game he tweeted that EJ should play the left side instead of the right. LOL.

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04-16-2013, 03:44 PM
  #280
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Anyone know what qualifies as a missed shot?

Because Barrie has more "missed shots" than Johnson, and has 16 less shots on goal, despite playing almost the same amount of games.

edit: obviously subjective stats, but it would indicate that Johnson doesn't get his shot blocked anymore than Barrie. Regardless, it is something he needs to improve on more than Barrie I would say.

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04-16-2013, 03:45 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
Anyone know what qualifies as a missed shot?

Because Barrie has more "missed shots" than Johnson, and has 16 less shots on goal, despite playing almost the same amount of games.
I was wondering this as well. Was wondering if they had a shots attempted stat per player. I never know where to even look for info like this.

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04-16-2013, 03:47 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
Anyone know what qualifies as a missed shot?

Because Barrie has more "missed shots" than Johnson, and has 16 less shots on goal, despite playing almost the same amount of games.
Missed shots are attempted shots that aren't blocked or saves.

I'm not surprised that Barrie misses a lot. He's got a wild slapshot and isn't afraid to use it at all times. Good wrist shot though.

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04-16-2013, 03:51 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Missed shots are attempted shots that aren't blocked or saves.

I'm not surprised that Barrie misses a lot. He's got a wild slapshot and isn't afraid to use it at all times. Good wrist shot though.
Thanks. So I guess Johnson most likely does get more shots blocked still.

If there is a part of Johnson's game that pales in comparison to the rest of his skills, it is his wrist shot. Sometimes he gets himself perfectly in the slot walking off the wall, but he just doesn't have a great wrist shot. It's too bad because with his size, he could really take advantage of walking into the slot more.

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04-16-2013, 04:04 PM
  #284
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Barrie misses the net a ton too. Something he needs to work on for sure. Elliott is by far the best at getting it through and avoiding shot blockers because his ability to change the shot angle is great. He's a shifty guy.

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04-16-2013, 04:26 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
Barrie misses the net a ton too. Something he needs to work on for sure. Elliott is by far the best at getting it through and avoiding shot blockers because his ability to change the shot angle is great. He's a shifty guy.
As far as im concerned all our Dman need to work on their shot this offseason. Elliott bulking up a little bit will do wonders for his game me thinks.

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04-16-2013, 06:35 PM
  #286
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Last edited by chewey: 04-16-2013 at 07:05 PM.
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04-17-2013, 07:44 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
1) He clearly has the talent for it.
We could have said the exact same thing coming into this season.

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2) He has suffered no major debilitating injury this season that will hamper him in the future.
We could have said the exact same thing coming into this season.

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3) 4/5 of his seasons prorate to atleast 29 points. (Ranging from 29-40)
We could have said the exact same thing coming into this season, except the numbers actually get a bit better.

But what we're ignoring here, is the trend of his point totals. They are cratering as the years go by. The guy hasn't put up what I would call impressive point totals since the '09-10 season (amortized 40+ point total). Yet 3 years later, a lot of people in here insist that player still exists.

That same season, Wolski put up 23 goals and 65 points. Is Wolski still that scoring player, or the depth player he's looked like for a few years? Is that scoring ability somehow still latent in Wolski - just ready to break out with a little offseason focus - or is he simply not that player anymore?

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Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
4) I know everyone is in the same boat with the shortened season, but I think not playing during the lockout hurt his game. Then he was finally getting into shape and he gets a concussion, then he finally starts getting in shape after his concussion and he hurts his wrist. It's just been a really bad season where it's like he is starting from day 1 almost every single game.
5) He'll have more help on the powerplay (either be back on the first unit, or have Elliott/Barrie hopefully with him on the 2nd).
6) Lastly, the same thing I said about Duchene. I think the off-season will refocus him. He seems like a pretty competitive guy, and I'm sure no one will be more let down by this season than him.
We could have said 5 and 6 coming into this season also. 4 is really the only unique one that I see on the list.

I admit I'm discouraged with his play, but I am a fan, I hope that you're correct, and also hope that something clicks this offseason. It did with Duchene and Stewart and I'd imagine other NHL players. Would be great for EJ to find the recipe.


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Old
04-17-2013, 10:22 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
We could have said 5 and 6 coming into this season also. 4 is really the only unique one that I see on the list.

I admit I'm discouraged with his play, but I am a fan, I hope that you're correct, and also hope that something clicks this offseason. It did with Duchene and Stewart and I'd imagine other NHL players. Would be great for EJ to find the recipe.
All fair points, I guess he could be another Wolski. I don't know though, I would argue 4 is the biggest one. Getting a chance to be in game shape before half the season is done, and hopefully staying healthy long enough to get in a groove. Didn't have that this season and it really showed in his game. However, he really needs to do something this summer and fix whatever is wrong. I'm hoping this is the rock bottom kind of season where it makes him search for a different routine than his usual one.

Personally I just don't see how he could put up 33 points, miss an entire year, then get 39 points, have a poor 50 games in St. Louis, get traded and then produce at the exact same pace that he did in his first two seasons, even if it was only for a quarter of a season. Then last season was still like 7 or 8 points lower than what should be his production. I'm of the belief this season is going to be an outlier in his career, but I can definitely understand the argument behind his declining point totals and why it could continue next season too.

It will definitely be interesting to see how the summer plays out, and if a lot of the excuses used for him are addressed (Sacco gone, better partner, etc). I'm willing to give him next season (with or without a better partner/Sacco gone) and if he isn't back to 30 points, I'd fully admit the Avs got bent over in that trade and that he isn't really anything better than a minute eating shut down defenceman. Until then, I'm still holding out the belief that the Avs have a 1st pairing, 35+ point defenceman.

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04-18-2013, 12:56 AM
  #289
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I don't think it's an offensive problem with Erik Johnson as much as it that he doesn't read and react fast enough when he has the puck on his stick.

When he gets the puck in the defensive zone, nine times out of ten he backs off with pressure in his face and makes the safe play to Matt Hunwick, who makes most of the pairing's outlet passes. In the offensive zone, Johnson reacts to pressure by either dumping it, shooting it into the guy in front of him, or skating into the corner - always getting pinched, often shooting high, wide, and around the boards.

At this point, I accept his limitations with the puck. What I do not accept is a 6'4", 235 pound defenseman with 43 hits and 18 PIMs in 30 games. He's bigger than everyone and skates better than most, but plays defense like he's smaller and slower.

Yeah, he needs to continue to be strong positionally and force the opposition to the outside, but when's the last time this guy punished someone for taking a swat at a rebound or smashed someone along the boards? I'm not saying he needs to take cheap shots, I'm just saying he needs to make people scared to play against him with his physicality.

Some may say being physical isn't his game, but I say his game stinks!

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04-18-2013, 01:28 AM
  #290
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Im going to reserve full judgement until I see him under a different coach and proper partner, but he has left me a little unsatisfied up to this point.

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04-18-2013, 05:08 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
I don't think it's an offensive problem with Erik Johnson as much as it that he doesn't read and react fast enough when he has the puck on his stick.

When he gets the puck in the defensive zone, nine times out of ten he backs off with pressure in his face and makes the safe play to Matt Hunwick, who makes most of the pairing's outlet passes. In the offensive zone, Johnson reacts to pressure by either dumping it, shooting it into the guy in front of him, or skating into the corner - always getting pinched, often shooting high, wide, and around the boards.

At this point, I accept his limitations with the puck. What I do not accept is a 6'4", 235 pound defenseman with 43 hits and 18 PIMs in 30 games. He's bigger than everyone and skates better than most, but plays defense like he's smaller and slower.

Yeah, he needs to continue to be strong positionally and force the opposition to the outside, but when's the last time this guy punished someone for taking a swat at a rebound or smashed someone along the boards? I'm not saying he needs to take cheap shots, I'm just saying he needs to make people scared to play against him with his physicality.

Some may say being physical isn't his game, but I say his game stinks!
Has all the making of a Rob Blake but plays the game like hes Cory Cross

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04-18-2013, 05:15 PM
  #292
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EJ doesn't care about this season anymore, if you can't tell by his lack of intensity, then now you all know. The guy has clearly checked out and is done with Sacco's mind games.

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04-18-2013, 05:16 PM
  #293
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Serious question.

Do you trade EJ now when he still has the potential to be a #1? Flyers are in dire need of a defender like him, and I would have to think we could get outstanding value for him.

We've got Hunwick.

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04-18-2013, 05:23 PM
  #294
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Serious question.

Do you trade EJ now when he still has the potential to be a #1? Flyers are in dire need of a defender like him, and I would have to think we could get outstanding value for him.

We've got Hunwick.
Heck no. We lose any trade with him in it.

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04-18-2013, 05:45 PM
  #295
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Serious question.

Do you trade EJ now when he still has the potential to be a #1? Flyers are in dire need of a defender like him, and I would have to think we could get outstanding value for him.

We've got Hunwick.
You think the Flyers are in dire need for a defenseman like EJ, imagine how badly the Avs would need one if they traded him and didn't get a better D in return.

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04-18-2013, 05:48 PM
  #296
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We lose any trade with him in it.
They already lost a trade with him in it.

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04-18-2013, 05:49 PM
  #297
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You think the Flyers are in dire need for a defenseman like EJ, imagine how badly the Avs would need one if they traded him and didn't get a better D in return.
Things would indeed be ugly on the blueline.

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04-18-2013, 05:55 PM
  #298
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Heck no. We lose any trade with him in it.
Just because we lost the first one with him in it, doesn't mean we would have to lose the 2nd.

And I didn't say trade him for bad value, I said that if we could get good value.

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04-18-2013, 06:02 PM
  #299
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Just because we lost the first one with him in it, doesn't mean we would have to lose the 2nd.

And I didn't say trade him for bad value, I said that if we could get good value.
You trade anyone if the value is too good to turn down.

We complain about being able to find EJ a partner because the asking price on anyone decent is too high. Imagine trying to find a #1 and #2.

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04-18-2013, 06:31 PM
  #300
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Just because we lost the first one with him in it, doesn't mean we would have to lose the 2nd.

And I didn't say trade him for bad value, I said that if we could get good value.
It would have to be a crazy overpayment and no team is going to make that. Even if it's just a regular overpayment, which by default wouldn't include a better D than EJ (since he's the centerpiece) it just doesn't make sense to make your poor d unit even worse for forward help or depth.

It would be like trading Varly if a team made a huge overpayment for him. Ok fine, then what do you do for a goaltender? Especially one for the future?

If any trade goes down with the Flyers, I would hope the Avs are trying to pry Coburn from them since they may need to cut salary with the cap drop. He might be a good secondary option to the more offensive guys like Yandle.

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