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04-25-2013, 01:15 PM
  #401
Rhaego
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Pierre Lebrun said (on ESPN podcast today) that the trade was horrible for the Avs and that he believes Erik will become a no. 3 or 4 dman.

Can't tell you how much I disagree with that statement. Didn't mention Siemens or Rattie either.

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04-25-2013, 01:23 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by Elway View Post
Pierre Lebrun said (on ESPN podcast today) that the trade was horrible for the Avs and that he believes Erik will become a no. 3 or 4 dman.
Nice. Lebrun reading our thread, is he?

This has been my position all year long, with the caveat that EJ has the skill/talent to be a 1 or 2, but he's not playing the game that way. How many more seasons does he have to show it? We'll see, but LeBrun may be right.

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Originally Posted by Elway View Post
Can't tell you how much I disagree with that statement. Didn't mention Siemens or Rattie either.
Because the crux of the trade was the NHL players involved.


EDIT: Btw, is there a link to hear this podcast?

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04-25-2013, 01:28 PM
  #403
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http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=9208392

Its around the 12/13 minute mark where he talks about the Avs. Its only about a minute or two and he just says we'll need to do more than draft Jones

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04-25-2013, 01:29 PM
  #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elway View Post
Pierre Lebrun said (on ESPN podcast today) that the trade was horrible for the Avs and that he believes Erik will become a no. 3 or 4 dman.

Can't tell you how much I disagree with that statement. Didn't mention Siemens or Rattie either.
He's been on the Avs bash wagon the last two months are so, which is odd because he is normally a very respectable and the best hockey insider in the world IMO.

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04-25-2013, 01:31 PM
  #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elway View Post
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=9208392

Its around the 12/13 minute mark where he talks about the Avs. Its only about a minute or two and he just says we'll need to do more than draft Jones
Perhaps he is reading our thread.

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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
He's been on the Avs bash wagon the last two months are so, which is odd because he is normally a very respectable and the best hockey insider in the world IMO.
He should be on that wagon - they deserve it.

I didn't disagree with a single thing he said.


Last edited by ABasin: 04-25-2013 at 01:44 PM.
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04-25-2013, 01:37 PM
  #406
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The fact that he thinks EJ is currently a 5 or 6 boggles me.

If that were true we'd have EJ and 5 beer leaguers suiting up with him

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04-25-2013, 01:43 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Elway View Post
The fact that he thinks EJ is currently a 5 or 6 boggles me.

If that were true we'd have EJ and 5 beer leaguers suiting up with him
I don't think that was his point - that EJ is a 3rd pairing guy now. His wording may have been a bit odd, but I think he was simply saying that EJ can be a quality 3/4 guy in the NHL.

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04-25-2013, 01:46 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
He should be on that wagon - they deserve it.

I didn't disagree with a single thing he said.
I think Avs deserve it for the ROR and Giguere (even though it is being completely blown out of proportion by the media) fiasco, but again judging a trade which by no means should be judged yet is completely idiotic. Even if EJ is having a terrible injury filled year and Shattenkirk is having an insanely good year.

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04-25-2013, 01:50 PM
  #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elway View Post
Pierre Lebrun said (on ESPN podcast today) that the trade was horrible for the Avs and that he believes Erik will become a no. 3 or 4 dman.

Can't tell you how much I disagree with that statement. Didn't mention Siemens or Rattie either.
I mean its easy to keep denying this but pretty much everyone in the hockey world, beyond some Avs fans, shares this view for a reason. The trade has been lousy so far and has had very good results for St. Louis thus far and poor ones for us.

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04-25-2013, 01:55 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
I mean its easy to keep denying this but pretty much everyone in the hockey world, beyond some Avs fans, shares this view for a reason. The trade has been lousy so far and has had very good results for St. Louis thus far and poor ones for us.
I really dont see why Avs fan dont see it as such aswell. The trade has not looked good for us thats a fact. Having said that im not ready to give up on EJ quite yet. Until he gets a little help and he gets a coach who knows that the hell hes doing.

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04-25-2013, 03:07 PM
  #411
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I really dont see why Avs fan dont see it as such aswell. The trade has not looked good for us thats a fact. Having said that im not ready to give up on EJ quite yet. Until he gets a little help and he gets a coach who knows that the hell hes doing.
Doesn't make any sense for the team to give up on EJ anyway, since trading him would yield far lesser value than what was given up for him.

It's a fact he needs to play better than he showed this season. I'm willing to give him a pass much like I gave Duchene a pass last season. Much like Duchene, injuries and generally sucky players surrounding him contributed to the problem, though he too needs to shoulder some responsibility. We'll see if he matures like Dutchy did this offseason or if he remains a mediocre blueliner.

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04-25-2013, 03:26 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Doesn't make any sense for the team to give up on EJ anyway, since trading him would yield far lesser value than what was given up for him.

It's a fact he needs to play better than he showed this season. I'm willing to give him a pass much like I gave Duchene a pass last season. Much like Duchene, injuries and generally sucky players surrounding him contributed to the problem, though he too needs to shoulder some responsibility. We'll see if he matures like Dutchy did this offseason or if he remains a mediocre blueliner.
The problem with that comparison is that EJ is 25. Duchene was 21 when he had his down year.

It is starting to look like EJ will be, at his best, a Marc Staal type of player. Nothing wrong with that. And we can't go back and undo the trade. Just move forward with what we have. No sense in arguing over who won, it is over.

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04-25-2013, 03:31 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
The problem with that comparison is that EJ is 25. Duchene was 21 when he had his down year.
True, but defensemen do take longer to develop. Keith didn't have his breakout season until age 27 I believe (not saying EJ and Keith are comparable, just saying it sometimes takes time). In any event, I think one way or another we'll know what we have in him next season.

I'm not expecting Norris-caliber play from EJ, I just want to see a guy who can be heavily relied on in all three zones. So far I see a guy who can play adequate D and block shots, but is still way to hesitant with the puck when trying to pass or shoot.

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04-25-2013, 03:36 PM
  #414
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24-27 is when most defensemen really break out. Keith was 25, Pronger 24/25 (don't exactly remember), Chara 25, etc. If EJ doesn't break out next year, then it is time to basically give up and resign ourselves that he will be nothing more than a top pairing shutdown guy with great skating and a good first pass.

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04-25-2013, 03:37 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
The problem with that comparison is that EJ is 25. Duchene was 21 when he had his down year.

It is starting to look like EJ will be, at his best, a Marc Staal type of player. Nothing wrong with that. And we can't go back and undo the trade. Just move forward with what we have. No sense in arguing over who won, it is over.
And it is obvious.

But the problem isn't necessarily that the Avs lost big in the trade. The problem is that the guy who made the trade is still in charge.

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04-25-2013, 05:15 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
And it is obvious.

But the problem isn't necessarily that the Avs lost big in the trade. The problem is that the guy who made the trade is still in charge.
You will never convince me that Sherman makes any hockey related decisions. So I have no clue who picked the players to target, and which players could be given up. And for the record, contrary to most peoples beliefs, I don't think Lacroix had anything to do with it either. He just assembled this boneheaded, can't blame what you can't see, regime. There is no accountability.

And to keep this on topic. I believe EJ has nice hair, but an ugly messenger bag.

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04-25-2013, 05:16 PM
  #417
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You will never convince me that Sherman makes any hockey related decisions.
Even if true, the guy who made the decision is still in charge.

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04-25-2013, 05:32 PM
  #418
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As much as I've railed on it for being a bad trade, I can see why Avs management targeted EJ. From his good 09-10 season and his impressive showing in Vancouver, EJ was one of my favorite young dmen to watch and I was happy that we acquired him even though I was upset over the loss of Stewart and Shattenkrik. I don't suppose they could have predicted that any modicum of offensive ability EJ had would steadily decline over the subsequent years.

I think the real problem with the EJ and Varly trades, apart from being very big risks for a rebuilding team to take, is that these players weren't put in a good position to succeed. No quality veteran mentorship for EJ, no goalie coach for Varly (who openly expressed surprise at this arrangement), and affecting both of them is the putrid quality of our overall d corps. Not where you want to put your expensive young assets in their key development years.

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04-25-2013, 06:02 PM
  #419
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
As much as I've railed on it for being a bad trade, I can see why Avs management targeted EJ. From his good 09-10 season and his impressive showing in Vancouver, EJ was one of my favorite young dmen to watch and I was happy that we acquired him even though I was upset over the loss of Stewart and Shattenkrik. I don't suppose they could have predicted that any modicum of offensive ability EJ had would steadily decline over the subsequent years.

I think the real problem with the EJ and Varly trades, apart from being very big risks for a rebuilding team to take, is that these players weren't put in a good position to succeed. No quality veteran mentorship for EJ, no goalie coach for Varly (who openly expressed surprise at this arrangement), and affecting both of them is the putrid quality of our overall d corps. Not where you want to put your expensive young assets in their key development years.
Hard to argue with this post. Giguere was a wonderful addition for Varly, and I think has helped his game. I think Hejda was supposed to play that role for EJ, but when they couldn't get it going in the first month they have been separated ever since. I really want to see EJ under a new coach, as well as Stastny. I just don't know if it will happen.

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04-25-2013, 07:04 PM
  #420
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Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
Hard to argue with this post. Giguere was a wonderful addition for Varly, and I think has helped his game. I think Hejda was supposed to play that role for EJ, but when they couldn't get it going in the first month they have been separated ever since. I really want to see EJ under a new coach, as well as Stastny. I just don't know if it will happen.
And that's what is bothering me about this situation. Because it didn't work in the first month, they decided to never try it again. They were both under a lot of pressure to start that season especially Hejda. Once they both settled down they should have tried it again. If Hejda can now help guys like Barrie and Elliott, he sure as hell can help a guy like EJ.

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04-25-2013, 07:37 PM
  #421
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And that's what is bothering me about this situation. Because it didn't work in the first month, they decided to never try it again. They were both under a lot of pressure to start that season especially Hejda. Once they both settled down they should have tried it again. If Hejda can now help guys like Barrie and Elliott, he sure as hell can help a guy like EJ.
Oh I know. I was one of the brave few that said we should try it again. Only to get berated with "Don't you remember what happened last time!!!!!!!" responses.

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04-26-2013, 06:48 AM
  #422
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
As much as I've railed on it for being a bad trade, I can see why Avs management targeted EJ. From his good 09-10 season and his impressive showing in Vancouver, EJ was one of my favorite young dmen to watch and I was happy that we acquired him even though I was upset over the loss of Stewart and Shattenkrik. I don't suppose they could have predicted that any modicum of offensive ability EJ had would steadily decline over the subsequent years.

I think the real problem with the EJ and Varly trades, apart from being very big risks for a rebuilding team to take, is that these players weren't put in a good position to succeed. No quality veteran mentorship for EJ, no goalie coach for Varly (who openly expressed surprise at this arrangement), and affecting both of them is the putrid quality of our overall d corps. Not where you want to put your expensive young assets in their key development years.
I agree with all of this and it's a mark of a bigger failing by the management that they have acquired these pieces and just left them to their own devices, essentially.

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04-26-2013, 07:16 AM
  #423
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
As much as I've railed on it for being a bad trade, I can see why Avs management targeted EJ. From his good 09-10 season and his impressive showing in Vancouver, EJ was one of my favorite young dmen to watch and I was happy that we acquired him even though I was upset over the loss of Stewart and Shattenkrik. I don't suppose they could have predicted that any modicum of offensive ability EJ had would steadily decline over the subsequent years.

I think the real problem with the EJ and Varly trades, apart from being very big risks for a rebuilding team to take, is that these players weren't put in a good position to succeed. No quality veteran mentorship for EJ, no goalie coach for Varly (who openly expressed surprise at this arrangement), and affecting both of them is the putrid quality of our overall d corps. Not where you want to put your expensive young assets in their key development years.
Wow, that's very well said. They have certainly failed to meet our expectations so far and we can blame management and players. Not players alone.

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04-26-2013, 10:04 AM
  #424
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Wow, that's very well said. They have certainly failed to meet our expectations so far and we can blame management and players. Not players alone.
Agreed.

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04-26-2013, 10:24 AM
  #425
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
As much as I've railed on it for being a bad trade, I can see why Avs management targeted EJ. From his good 09-10 season and his impressive showing in Vancouver, EJ was one of my favorite young dmen to watch and I was happy that we acquired him even though I was upset over the loss of Stewart and Shattenkrik. I don't suppose they could have predicted that any modicum of offensive ability EJ had would steadily decline over the subsequent years.

I think the real problem with the EJ and Varly trades, apart from being very big risks for a rebuilding team to take, is that these players weren't put in a good position to succeed. No quality veteran mentorship for EJ, no goalie coach for Varly (who openly expressed surprise at this arrangement), and affecting both of them is the putrid quality of our overall d corps. Not where you want to put your expensive young assets in their key development years.
Amen brother all of this right here.

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