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Old
03-28-2013, 10:53 AM
  #126
ABasin
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Until Sacco is no longer the coach, I don't see it.
I don't see it either. There's no doubt he has the talent, and there's no doubt he shows flashes. But that's all we really see now. Flashes. A few great shifts now and again.

And BTW, over the past 6-8 games, his defense isn't what it was earlier in the season either. Perhaps he's still feeling effects from his concussion, but aside from those flashes on a few shifts, he's looking more like a good 2nd pairing defensive defenseman than a 1st pairing two-way guy. Or a 1st pairing anything. Far, far from where he should be playing, given his excellent skillset. It's really a shame. A lost season for him, in all likelihood. Sometimes, it honestly makes me wonder whether the player who put up 39 points in '09-10 is gone for good. I sincerely hope not.

If we could just capture EJ's 3rd period last night, and repeat it fairly regularly, I think we'd be all set. That was great to see.

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03-28-2013, 11:00 AM
  #127
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EJ is so awesome.

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03-28-2013, 11:01 AM
  #128
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I don't see it either. There's no doubt he has the talent, and there's no doubt he shows flashes. But that's all we really see now. Flashes. A few great shifts now and again.

And BTW, over the past 6-8 games, his defense isn't what it was earlier in the season either. Perhaps he's still feeling effects from his concussion, but aside from those flashes on a few shifts, he's looking more like a good 2nd pairing defensive defenseman than a 1st pairing two-way guy. Or a 1st pairing anything. Far, far from where he should be playing, given his excellent skillset. It's really a shame. A lost season for him, in all likelihood. Sometimes, it honestly makes me wonder whether the player who put up 39 points in '09-10 is gone for good. I sincerely hope not.
This season will most likely be write-off for him. It's too bad. The shortened season and not playing anywhere, and then finally getting into game shape, and then gets concussed. I don't think his conditioning is where it should be since he basically played 10 games, took 10 games off, and then played 10 games.

And yes, he has looked mediocre since coming back from his concussion. Hopefully he can string some healthy games together. Regardless, last night reminded me of the big free wheeling defenceman it looked like the Avs got 2 years ago.

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If we could just capture EJ's 3rd period last night, and repeat it fairly regularly, I think we'd be all set. That was great to see.
That's the spirit.

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03-28-2013, 11:13 AM
  #129
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If we could just capture EJ's 3rd period last night, and repeat it fairly regularly, I think we'd be all set. That was great to see.
You might disagree with me, but I felt that since he returned from his hand injury in/around December of last season, all through the rest of the season he was playing like he did in the 3rd last night.

And I do feel that up until his concussion this year he was still playing to that ability...no denying that since returning he's been "inconsistent" at best

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03-29-2013, 12:20 AM
  #130
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Hunwick looked real good tonight against the Nucks, at both ends of the ice, and EJ not coincidentally looked great as well.

Did you see how EJ rushed the puck up ice too with a good offensive partner that's playing well? He started up ice, would see the forecheck, and instead of trying to do everything himself, he'd make a quick pass to his open partner who takes it up ice. When he tries to do everything himself, he hesitates and isn't completely confident in what to do because he has a decent but not great outlet pass, and has decent but not great awareness in transition.

He NEEDS someone he can feed off like Hunwick tonight, and support him in the transition. It's no coincidence that with Huniwck playing this well, this might have been EJ's best game of the year.

I don't want it to be Hunwick long term because I don't think he can sustain that level, but he needs someone that can. It will free up EJ to play to his strengths, and leave the most of the "thinking" to his partner, as cruel as that sounds. This will build confidence in his game, and you'll see him make little plays smart plays with the puck to set up plays in the offensive zone like he did on the Hejduk chance that got robbed, because he's playing with confidence.


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03-29-2013, 12:53 AM
  #131
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Yandle/EJ would be so awesome.

I think Barrie on the left side with EJ would work very well as well.

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03-29-2013, 01:16 AM
  #132
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EJ was awesome to watch on the ice tonight. I forget who it was on here, but whoever said that EJ is better when he gets big minutes is absolutely right. He should be on the ice as much as possible.

Feels like he gets stronger as the game wears on, relative to his opponents.

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03-29-2013, 01:29 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by JeffFingerDiscount View Post
EJ was awesome to watch on the ice tonight. I forget who it was on here, but whoever said that EJ is better when he gets big minutes is absolutely right. He should be on the ice as much as possible.

Feels like he gets stronger as the game wears on, relative to his opponents.
I feel it's the other way around. He gets big minutes when he plays better.

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03-29-2013, 02:15 AM
  #134
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Yandle/EJ would be so awesome.

I think Barrie on the left side with EJ would work very well as well.
Absolutely. Given the Yotes ownership situation that appears to have completely fallen through, he should be the Avs first choice. I think the added leadership, and semi vet status would help this young team immensely also.

If the Avs end up drafting Jones, it makes both Elliott and Barrie expendable in my eyes. Even though Barrie has had some promising games carrying the puck this year, there's no reason IMO to put a high priority on having EJ, Jones, and Barrie/Elliott as RHD. On a truly competative team, it's nice to have a great 3rd pairing, but it's usually a luxury that's way down on the priority list if you lean on your top four like most truly competitive teams. A pairing of O'Brien and Wilson, or whoever is more than serviceable.

If Phoenix ends up moving and/or has money issues they'll be looking for picks, prospects, and forward help since the later is what most Yote fans admit is better to spend the limited money on.

A top three of Yandle, EJ, and Jones, with Hejda and a promising Siemens in the mix could really be key to re-tooling this D core.


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03-29-2013, 02:30 AM
  #135
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Has anyone considered the possibility that the Avalanche could trade Erik Johnson if they land Seth Jones and/or Greg Sherman is relieved of his General Manager duties?

The perception of value is there. He's made it painfully clear there's a limit on how much he can help the Avalanche. But he could help a good team while playing a lesser role.

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03-29-2013, 03:51 AM
  #136
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Has anyone considered the possibility that the Avalanche could trade Erik Johnson if they land Seth Jones and/or Greg Sherman is relieved of his General Manager duties?

The perception of value is there. He's made it painfully clear there's a limit on how much he can help the Avalanche. But he could help a good team while playing a lesser role.
No...

So your plan would be to trade the only defenceman who could shelter Jones?

Painfully clear? In the sense that he plays with the worst partner imaginable for a first pairing, and still manages okay? Under the worst coach in the NHL in the most painfully obvious way?

I'm sure you wanted to trade Duchene last season too because he couldn't put up 100 points playing 13 minutes a night with McLeod and whoever else he was burdened with.

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03-29-2013, 04:22 AM
  #137
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No...

So your plan would be to trade the only defenceman who could shelter Jones?

Painfully clear? In the sense that he plays with the worst partner imaginable for a first pairing, and still manages okay? Under the worst coach in the NHL in the most painfully obvious way?

I'm sure you wanted to trade Duchene last season too because he couldn't put up 100 points playing 13 minutes a night with McLeod and whoever else he was burdened with.
The biggest fingerprint Greg Sherman has made with the Avalanche is the blockbuster trade for Erik Johnson. Considering how bad the team is and how a new GM would want to leave his own mark, it's plausible that they make a conscious effort to turn the page.

Implying Erik Johnson is too good or too important to be traded is conjecture.

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03-29-2013, 07:05 AM
  #138
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Looking at our d-man corps as a whole, I have a hard time seeing Seth Jones & the others make EJ expendable.

I know he's a lightning rod for Avs venting, but EJ is not the problem. He's a good defender on a great contract.

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03-29-2013, 10:11 AM
  #139
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The biggest fingerprint Greg Sherman has made with the Avalanche is the blockbuster trade for Erik Johnson. Considering how bad the team is and how a new GM would want to leave his own mark, it's plausible that they make a conscious effort to turn the page.

Implying Erik Johnson is too good or too important to be traded is conjecture.
Sadly, if the Avs traded EJ, Jones would end up in the same spot. 1 good defenceman surrounded by 5 defenceman who shouldn't see more than 18 minutes of ice. Maybe Jones is good enough where it wouldn't matter, but I wouldn't want to risk his development like that.

And as Freudian stated, he has a great contract. 3.75 for a guy who will log 24+ minutes of ice time is great value.

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03-29-2013, 10:33 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Has anyone considered the possibility that the Avalanche could trade Erik Johnson if they land Seth Jones and/or Greg Sherman is relieved of his General Manager duties?

The perception of value is there. He's made it painfully clear there's a limit on how much he can help the Avalanche. But he could help a good team while playing a lesser role.
Should we trade Dutchy if we draft MacKinnon?

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03-29-2013, 10:46 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Hunwick looked real good tonight against the Nucks, at both ends of the ice, and EJ not coincidentally looked great as well.

Did you see how EJ rushed the puck up ice too with a good offensive partner that's playing well? He started up ice, would see the forecheck, and instead of trying to do everything himself, he'd make a quick pass to his open partner who takes it up ice. When he tries to do everything himself, he hesitates and isn't completely confident in what to do because he has a decent but not great outlet pass, and has decent but not great awareness in transition.

He NEEDS someone he can feed off like Hunwick tonight, and support him in the transition. It's no coincidence that with Huniwck playing this well, this might have been EJ's best game of the year.
Wait, did I just read that correctly? Matt Hunwick holds the key to EJ playing like a 1st pairing defenseman?!?

Damn. Greg Sherman is a mad genius!

Seriously, EJ did play his best game in awhile. It's good to see. Now for some consistency, please.

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03-29-2013, 12:22 PM
  #142
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Wait, did I just read that correctly? Matt Hunwick holds the key to EJ playing like a 1st pairing defenseman?!?

Damn. Greg Sherman is a mad genius!

Seriously, EJ did play his best game in awhile. It's good to see. Now for some consistency, please.
I don't know if you read it correctly or not, but you did delete the part of my post that said I didn't think he was the key longterm, because he can't sustain that level of play.

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03-29-2013, 12:22 PM
  #143
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Absolutely. Given the Yotes ownership situation that appears to have completely fallen through, he should be the Avs first choice. I think the added leadership, and semi vet status would help this young team immensely also.

If the Avs end up drafting Jones, it makes both Elliott and Barrie expendable in my eyes. Even though Barrie has had some promising games carrying the puck this year, there's no reason IMO to put a high priority on having EJ, Jones, and Barrie/Elliott as RHD. On a truly competative team, it's nice to have a great 3rd pairing, but it's usually a luxury that's way down on the priority list if you lean on your top four like most truly competitive teams. A pairing of O'Brien and Wilson, or whoever is more than serviceable.

If Phoenix ends up moving and/or has money issues they'll be looking for picks, prospects, and forward help since the later is what most Yote fans admit is better to spend the limited money on.

A top three of Yandle, EJ, and Jones, with Hejda and a promising Siemens in the mix could really be key to re-tooling this D core.
Yes it would really suck to have 3 or 4 defensemen who are able to move the puck. You can never have too many quality puck movers.

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03-29-2013, 12:25 PM
  #144
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Yes it would really suck to have 3 or 4 defensemen who are able to move the puck. You can never have too many quality puck movers.
Cause that's what I said, it would suck to have 3 or 4 defenseman that could move the puck right?

I could have sworn I said that with Jones they would be expendable in a package for a top LHD that could move the puck, which would give the team the same 3 to 4 defenseman that can move the puck.

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03-29-2013, 12:46 PM
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Cause that's what I said, it would suck to have 3 or 4 defenseman that could move the puck right?

I could have sworn I said that with Jones they would be expendable in a package for a top LHD that could move the puck, which would give the team the same 3 to 4 defenseman that can move the puck.
One of them might be expendable (and I'd even argue that because there's no way to tell who might end up being the better of the two) certainly not both of them in a deal where they are secondary pieces to bring in a guy like Yandle who's signed for two more years and is insanely overrated.

I'm sick and tired of this short sightedness.

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03-29-2013, 02:50 PM
  #146
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Looking at our d-man corps as a whole, I have a hard time seeing Seth Jones & the others make EJ expendable.

I know he's a lightning rod for Avs venting, but EJ is not the problem. He's a good defender on a great contract.
Everyone experienced defender should be in trade consideration, in my view.

Ryan O'Byrne should walk, Greg Zanon should be bought out. Jan Hejda and Matt Hunwick actually have trade value.

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03-29-2013, 02:54 PM
  #147
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I don't know if you read it correctly or not, but you did delete the part of my post that said I didn't think he was the key longterm, because he can't sustain that level of play.
I was only kidding - giving you some friendly crap.

But in all seriousness, if Erik Johnson needs Matt frickin Hunwick in order to play well, the Avs have a very serious problem on their hands. I probably don't have to point out that it should be the other way around. Yeesh.

I'd much rather believe that EJ's play last night (and in the 3rd period the night before) had everything to do with EJ, rather than a scrub partner on a sugar high or something.

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03-29-2013, 02:56 PM
  #148
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One of them might be expendable (and I'd even argue that because there's no way to tell who might end up being the better of the two) certainly not both of them in a deal where they are secondary pieces to bring in a guy like Yandle who's signed for two more years and is insanely overrated.

I'm sick and tired of this short sightedness.
First of all Yandle has three more years after this not two.

Look, I like Barrie's promise, and he's moving the puck well, but how can people say a guy like Yandle is overrated when he is more multi dimensional, a vet leader, and a regular 40+ point guy who has a 59 point season on a defensive team, but a prospect with 1 goal and 6 assists in 27 games isn't overrated around here?

How can the same people that are up in arms about how Sherman built the blueline this season, hold on to what we could all agree will likely be the 3rd best D behind EJ, and Jones (if drafted) rather than bringing in a LHD for EJ.

What kind of impact D is this team gonna realistically bring in that's signed for more than three years, and why would a team be giving up a guy like that? And that's just assuming the paranoid situation of him returning to Boston actually happens, in which case they had three years of UFA's, three years of possible trades, and three years of UFA's to look to replace him.

I don't see keeping Barrie and Elliott for the 3rd pairing (which is not very important on a team with a good blueline) or forcing them to the left, and hoping they both start producing regularly, and do so on their off side, as better options than just packaging them for a proven LHD for the top pairing. If they draft Jones that is.

Which group are you more comfortable going forward with?

Yandle - EJ
X - Jones
X - X

or one of

X - EJ
X - Jones
X - Barrie/Elliott

Barrie/Elliott - EJ
X - Jones
X - X

Jones - EJ
X - Barrie/Elliott
X - X

The later three are really pining their hopes on potential. In the meantime if it wouldn't work out, people would be up in arms about how Sherman hadn't improved the D unit. Bringing in a guy with three years left, that you can try to re-sign is not shortsighted. He's proven and under contract longer than anyone on our D except for the young unproven guys.


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03-29-2013, 03:11 PM
  #149
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I was only kidding - giving you some friendly crap.

But in all seriousness, if Erik Johnson needs Matt frickin Hunwick in order to play well, the Avs have a very serious problem on their hands. I probably don't have to point out that it should be the other way around. Yeesh.

I'd much rather believe that EJ's play last night (and in the 3rd period the night before) had everything to do with EJ, rather than a scrub partner on a sugar high or something.
Bolded was pretty funny.

I believe Foppa's point was that EJ's style blend well with a quick skating "puck mover." Not Hunwick in particular, but someone who is similar, yet much much smarter. That would make a really nice pairing.

And yes, Johnson looks better because of himself. Seeing as Hunwick-Johnson has been a frequent pairing this season, and now all of a sudden Johnson looks good leads me to believe Hunwick is not the catalyst.

Quote:
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Which group are you more comfortable going forward with?

Yandle - EJ
X - Jones
X - X
That looks just beautiful.

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03-29-2013, 03:12 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
I was only kidding - giving you some friendly crap.

But in all seriousness, if Erik Johnson needs Matt frickin Hunwick in order to play well, the Avs have a very serious problem on their hands. I probably don't have to point out that it should be the other way around. Yeesh.

I'd much rather believe that EJ's play last night (and in the 3rd period the night before) had everything to do with EJ, rather than a scrub partner on a sugar high or something.
It would definitely be a nightmare if they decided to plan on a Hunwick - EJ pairing maintaining this kind of play, and relying on it in the future.

But, it shows how even a guy like Hunwick playing way above his regular level of play, takes the burden off EJ to do everything offensively and transition wise, and he can just comfortably play his game and let the plays come to him. Rather than trying to force everything which is where he hits a wall, and the plays don't generate, and it snowballs into losing confidence and just playing simple and solid.

I don't think EJ's a lock to be a more dominant D with an offensive partner, but I do think there's a good chance it will get him close to his expected level of play IMO.

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I believe Foppa's point was that EJ's style blend well with a quick skating "puck mover." Not Hunwick in particular, but someone who is similar, yet much much smarter. That would make a really nice pairing.

And yes, Johnson looks better because of himself. Seeing as Hunwick-Johnson has been a frequent pairing this season, and now all of a sudden Johnson looks good leads me to believe Hunwick is not the catalyst.
I think Hunwick was playing at his best last night, that was a major difference. It's also why EJ got more and more comfortable as the game went on, and got better and better. He played better because of himself too, but it was because he knew it was working and just went with it, rather than trying to think the game too much. He needs a guy that can maintain that kind of play though on his left, so he can maintain that level of confidence, and grow his game as well.


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