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Are we in the midst of another epic second-half collapse this season?

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:08 PM
  #201
Erdinger
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Originally Posted by Ash35 View Post
What the Sens are doing just goes to show it's not so much who you have playing but how you play with the guys you have. I've watched hockey for enough years that a won't be surprised if Ottawa gets worse when they get their players back. Our saviors are on their way, Players relax a bit, less attention to detail. Leafs have enough talent to make the playoffs.
Classic example of that was the Leafs 2002 playoff run when Sundin got injured. Soon as he returned they played much worse as a group. Of course some of the players allegedly playing hungover in the Conference finals didn't help.

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03-17-2013, 12:09 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
That's true. Ottawa might have their 1D and 1C injured. But we never had a 1D or a 1C.

Even when other teams are decimated by numerous injuries, they're still head and shoulders above the Leafs talent-wise (and by any other criteria you can find, except maybe golfing).
Yeah but take away Ottawa's 1D and 1C and they are an AHL team with a couple of old players well beyond their prime. The Leafs have 3 lines of guys what have potential get 50 points each in the NHL.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:09 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
It just points out how much Leafs are missing from being a serious competitor for the Cup.

Other teams like Sens are missing one of each due to injury and still performing better than our Leafs. Where Leafs need to find one of those, Sens just have to wait for their 3 key weapons to return to the line-up.

So I don't look at this losing streak as a collapse, but rather simply a reality check of where our team currently stands in the big picture of things overall.
I feel like the culture of the Leafs is just missing the right personality ingredients. For better or for worse, the 2012 and 2013 versions of the Leafs have had a significant college factor: Kessel, JVR, Bozak, Frattin, Scrivens, Liles, Komisarek, Gardiner, Steckel, Brown, Kostka.

Not painting those guys all with the same brush or saying you can't win with NCAA products, as Jonathan Toews and countless others have proven, but a lot of those guys are speedy and skilled players who probably aren't known for their ferocious compete level.

I don't think I'm too far out of line to suggest the Leafs would be consistently more hungry if we had a couple of CHL products like Andrew Ladd, David Clarkson, Chris Stewart in the mix.

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03-17-2013, 12:10 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I feel like the culture of the Leafs is just missing the right personality ingredients. For better or for worse, the 2012 and 2013 versions of the Leafs have had a significant college factor: Kessel, JVR, Bozak, Frattin, Scrivens, Liles, Komisarek, Gardiner, Steckel, Brown, Kostka.

Not painting those guys all with the same brush or saying you can't win with NCAA products, as Jonathan Toews and countless others have proven, but a lot of those guys are speedy and skilled players who probably aren't known for their ferocious compete level.

I don't think I'm too far out of line to suggest the Leafs would be consistently more hungry if we had a couple of CHL products like Andrew Ladd, David Clarkson, Chris Stewart in the mix.
Agreed.

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03-17-2013, 12:12 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
I agree...Dion is a good player but he will also probably be demanding in the 7M neighbourhood I imagine with his next contract. Is he worth 7M? I say no. I have never been enamoured by his captaincy either. He would be more effective as a quiet leader in the background, IMO..Less ice time, less face time. Some times less is more. Here is a case of that.
Dion and Phil will get 7M from the leafs which speaks volumes about the real underlying issues in toronto.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:16 PM
  #206
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Dion and Phil will get 7M from the leafs which speaks volumes about the real underlying issues in toronto.
Leafs just haven't adjusted well to the Cap world.

Pay Phaneuf and Kessel 10M for all I care if there was no cap..

Under the cap, we've been prone to overpaying players on a yearly basis.

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03-17-2013, 12:17 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Leafs just haven't adjusted well to the Cap world.

Pay Phaneuf and Kessel 10M for all I care if there was no cap..

Under the cap, we've been prone to overpaying players on a yearly basis.
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Originally Posted by JackJ View Post
Dion and Phil will get 7M from the leafs which speaks volumes about the real underlying issues in toronto.
It's basically Toronto Blue Jays disease. Keep paying raises to our star players hoping they grow into their salaries. I don't have a problem with Kessel being paid. But Grabovski? Kinda like Alex Rios, no? Phaneuf is just really a low IQ player, and not the kind you want in that critical position.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:19 PM
  #208
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Honestly, I hope this is another collapse.

This team is a mess, and if we squeak into the play-offs, I'm afraid the required changes won't be made.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:22 PM
  #209
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Honestly, I hope this is another collapse.

This team is a mess, and if we squeak into the play-offs, I'm afraid the required changes won't be made.
I want the playoffs anyway. The #1 centre problem hasn't been addressed even though they have missed the playoffs ever since we got Kessel. Just seems stupid to keep the guy if they can't get an upgrade on Bozak to complement him.

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03-17-2013, 12:30 PM
  #210
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I want the playoffs anyway. The #1 centre problem hasn't been addressed even though they have missed the playoffs ever since we got Kessel. Just seems stupid to keep the guy if they can't get an upgrade on Bozak to complement him.
It's not just a #1 centre. We don't have a #1 goalie or a #1 defenseman either.

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03-17-2013, 12:34 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
It's not just a #1 centre. We don't have a #1 goalie or a #1 defenseman either.
You make it seem like they're easy to come by.

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03-17-2013, 12:35 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Erdinger View Post
I want the playoffs anyway. The #1 centre problem hasn't been addressed even though they have missed the playoffs ever since we got Kessel. Just seems stupid to keep the guy if they can't get an upgrade on Bozak to complement him.
But then we won't have a scoring winger or a number one center...

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03-17-2013, 12:39 PM
  #213
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But then we won't have a scoring winger or a number one center...
If he walks after next season we'll have neither and nothing to show for it either.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:41 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Erdinger View Post
If he walks after next season we'll have neither and nothing to show for it either.
We need to hire and fire Burke again if Kessel walks.

I think Kessel is traded at the draft if we don't make the playoffs this year.

Why would Kessel want to play here? Everybody hates the guy, thinks he's a lazy American with no heart etc etc..

Better to trade him than get ****ed over.

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03-17-2013, 12:42 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Doshy View Post
You make it seem like they're easy to come by.
Yeah, you're right, we should just go without any of them. It's been working great so far...

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Old
03-17-2013, 05:01 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
I agree...Dion is a good player but he will also probably be demanding in the 7M neighborhood I imagine with his next contract. Is he worth 7M? I say no. I have never been enamoured by his captaincy either. He would be more effective as a quiet leader in the background, IMO..Less ice time, less face time. Some times less is more. Here is a case of that.
Naw i don't see a 7m cap hit demand.

He will be 29 when the new deal kicks in and that puts him at the prime age for a soft scaled down contract for years 35/36/37

7m puts him top 4 cap hit among all D, don't see him having the footing to demand that from anyone.

I'd be willing to bet that we see a 5.5m cap hit with heavy money upfront.

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03-17-2013, 05:53 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Doshy View Post
You make it seem like they're easy to come by.
It's been eight ****ing years and we still don't have ANY of those 3 things.
Pretty much EVERY other team has acquired at least ONE of those over the past 8 ****ing years. A lot of them have probably acquired all ****ing 3.

And after 8 years, the leafs still don't have ONE!!!!1

"You make it seem like they're easy to come by" he says....
I just can't ****ing take it anymore...

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03-17-2013, 05:55 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
Naw i don't see a 7m cap hit demand.

He will be 29 when the new deal kicks in and that puts him at the prime age for a soft scaled down contract for years 35/36/37

7m puts him top 4 cap hit among all D, don't see him having the footing to demand that from anyone.

I'd be willing to bet that we see a 5.5m cap hit with heavy money upfront.
if dion gets over 4.5 it wont be under MSLE ...i say MSLE because i dont think nonis is more than a custodian here till the new head of hockey operations ariive ...this billion dollar aquisition wasnt done without some homework .......not like the GORDIE KIRK chirade that led to brian burke being hired ...i wonder, out of curiousity what other GM'S were hired in time frame of the beginning of brian burkes tenure here .

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03-17-2013, 05:57 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
It's been eight ****ing years and we still don't have ANY of those 3 things.
Pretty much EVERY other team has acquired at least ONE of those over the past 8 ****ing years. A lot of them have probably acquired all ****ing 3.

And after 8 years, the leafs still don't have ONE!!!!1

"You make it seem like they're easy to come by" he says....
I just can't ****ing take it anymore...
Dam, you really are disgruntled

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Old
03-17-2013, 05:58 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
It's been eight ****ing years and we still don't have ANY of those 3 things.
Pretty much EVERY other team has acquired at least ONE of those over the past 8 ****ing years. A lot of them have probably acquired all ****ing 3.

And after 8 years, the leafs still don't have ONE!!!!1

"You make it seem like they're easy to come by" he says....
I just can't ****ing take it anymore...
EH, we might have all 3 covered in Kadri,Reims and Rielly.

They all young enough and have shown positive signs.

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:01 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
EH, we might have all 3 covered in Kadri,Reims and Rielly.

They all young enough and have shown positive signs.
All 3 could have also possibly been covered with Seguin, Hamilton, and Rask.

The guy says "You make it sound like a 1c, 1d, 1g are easy to come by".
Yet in the past 7 years, all ****ing 3 have been traded ****ing away.

Such a poorly ****ing managed team.

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03-17-2013, 06:06 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by hullsy47 View Post
if dion gets over 4.5 it wont be under MSLE ...i say MSLE because i dont think nonis is more than a custodian here till the new head of hockey operations ariive ...this billion dollar aquisition wasnt done without some homework .......not like the GORDIE KIRK chirade that led to brian burke being hired ...i wonder, out of curiousity what other GM'S were hired in time frame of the beginning of brian burkes tenure here .
4.5 only puts him in the top 30 for D, i can see a valid argument where that won't wash.

I'm sticking with the 5.5m cap hit range give or take 0.5m

New head of hockey custodian, hrmmmm, sorry not sure i'm buying what your selling there.

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:07 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
All 3 could have also possibly been covered with Seguin, Hamilton, and Rask.
We have to let that go. I'm not an apologist but just **** it we have Kessel for better or for worse.

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:10 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
All 3 could have also possibly been covered with Seguin, Hamilton, and Rask.

The guy says "You make it sound like a 1c, 1d, 1g are easy to come by".
Yet in the past 7 years, all ****ing 3 have been traded ****ing away.

Such a poorly ****ing managed team.
AHH well !!no arguement from me on that ole man, but it is what it is atm, eh?

Just sayen, it would not be a huge leap to think those 3 could get the job done.

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03-17-2013, 06:30 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I feel like the culture of the Leafs is just missing the right personality ingredients. For better or for worse, the 2012 and 2013 versions of the Leafs have had a significant college factor: Kessel, JVR, Bozak, Frattin, Scrivens, Liles, Komisarek, Gardiner, Steckel, Brown, Kostka.

Not painting those guys all with the same brush or saying you can't win with NCAA products, as Jonathan Toews and countless others have proven, but a lot of those guys are speedy and skilled players who probably aren't known for their ferocious compete level.

I don't think I'm too far out of line to suggest the Leafs would be consistently more hungry if we had a couple of CHL products like Andrew Ladd, David Clarkson, Chris Stewart in the mix.
I don't know if I'm the only one that noticed,but,can you see the recent roster moves are shipping out Burke's team America and playing the Canadian kids.Maybe that's the problem with Gardiner.

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