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Hypothetically speaking...could Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin or Stamkos break Gretzkys...

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Old
03-15-2013, 06:26 AM
  #1
SabresFan44
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Hypothetically speaking...could Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin or Stamkos break Gretzkys...

Could one of those four beat his point record.

I know its highly unlikely but Ovechkin just got to 700 points. Crosby if he stays healthy.

Then there is Stamkos who could put up 50 goal seasons for a long time.

If not points record, could one of them break any of Gretzkys records, if so which one.

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03-15-2013, 06:27 AM
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Point record??? No way.

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03-15-2013, 06:28 AM
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No.

....

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03-15-2013, 06:29 AM
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Trance Kuja
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I don't think it will ever be broken.

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03-15-2013, 06:30 AM
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The fact that Gretzky has more assists then anyone else (besides him) has points, should answer your question.

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03-15-2013, 06:31 AM
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I think Gretzky himself couldn't beat his own record in a modern hockey

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03-15-2013, 06:31 AM
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Krishna
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Better question would be can they catch his points if only his assists are counted?

Answer is still no

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03-15-2013, 06:32 AM
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I am aware of all of that, I just want to know which record these guys could break of his.

Perhaps goal record....Ovechkin has 349 goals. All he needs is another 556 goals. LOL, all he needs...yeah but its possible. Same with Stamkos and Crosby IMO

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03-15-2013, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresFan44 View Post
I am aware of all of that, I just want to know which record these guys could break of his.

Perhaps goal record....Ovechkin has 349 goals. All he needs is another 556 goals. LOL, all he needs...yeah but its possible. Same with Stamkos and Crosby IMO
Let's say he plays til he's 40, which given his recent physical fitness level even seems like a stretch. He would have to average 46 goals per season to tie that. It is possible, but given his decline and the general trend towards lower and lower offense (other than this season which is an outlier for many reasons) it seems very unlikely

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03-15-2013, 06:49 AM
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If you are interested in counting you can take statistics of them all and do the following:

1, for every season a player played in, find the goal per game stat
2, divide their goals, assists and pts by the GPG value to get some kind of "relative value"
3, add these "relative values" to build up a complete career stats of "relative values"
4, compare, whether there is anyone so dominant as the Great One once was


without any counting my estimation is, that they could be somewhat comparable in goals, but definitely not assists and points

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03-15-2013, 06:52 AM
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Ovechkin and Malkin could probably overtake Sergei Fedorov's point record by a Russian, but that's it.

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03-15-2013, 06:54 AM
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you need 50 goals a year for 20 seasons to get his goals record
you need on average 140-150 points a year over the same 20 years to get the points record.

the answer is no

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03-15-2013, 06:58 AM
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LOL!

On another note, I wish there was a Wayne Gretzky award for assists.

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03-15-2013, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by UCantHandleMyRiddum View Post
LOL!

On another note, I wish there was a Wayne Gretzky award for assists.
Unlike some meaningless trophies, this one would be cool. vote for

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03-15-2013, 07:04 AM
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No, won't happen. Not with the way scoring is these days. These guys probably won't even get as many points as Gretzky has assists.

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03-15-2013, 07:46 AM
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No, won't happen. Not with the way scoring is these days. These guys probably won't even get as many points as Gretzky has assists.
IMO, these records could be broken, but it will take changes in the game to do so. I think a couple (like 1, maybe 2) current players have the talent to break these records, but......(they would need many things to fall into place).

1. Changes to regulations that drops average goalie SV% down to around .850% from their current .910%. Bigger nets or smaller pads can do this. I don't think Gretzky has anywhere close to his current records playing against these current goalies, in their current pads. They just save so many more pucks. He would still dominate the league, but his counting stats (which is what this thread is about), would obviously be lower.

2. Generational player would need to play his entire career in this lower SV% NHL

3. Generational player would need health "luck" during most of his prime years and career in general. Losing a single season would probably immediately ruin his chances at this record..ie Crosby and Malkin are already out of contention.

If the game doesn't ever change from it's current ridiculously high SV% status it is in now, this record stands until a meteor demolishes the earth. You just can't break these insane records in a lower scoring league. It's really not the same task anyways. Gretzky himself couldn't touch his records in today's NHL.

I will always beat you in a race where I only have to skate 1 time around the rink, while you have to do 2. Until the league is put on even ground with the high scoring 80s, these records stand no chance to be broken.

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03-15-2013, 07:48 AM
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If you take Crosby and replace Gretzky for him in every game Gretzky played, Crosby shatters all of his records, blindfolded, with his dryer chained to his left ankle

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03-15-2013, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shizno View Post
If you take Crosby and replace Gretzky for him in every game Gretzky played, Crosby shatters all of his records, blindfolded, with his dryer chained to his left ankle



No, he wouldn't.

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03-15-2013, 07:50 AM
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No. Not a chance those records will be broken.

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03-15-2013, 07:53 AM
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Why did this get stickied?

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03-15-2013, 07:54 AM
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No.

I used to think Crosby had a chance at Messiers point record, but with injuries and lockout i think this is now out of reach. We'll see.

He's coming up to 700 point as well despite the injuries and is only 25. He'll need to keep playing as good as he is now for a few more seasons at least.

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03-15-2013, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Better question would be can they catch his points if only his assists are counted?

Answer is still no
Could they? Probably not Ovechkin or Malkin but Crosby could conceivably hit 2000 points for his career. Is it likely? No, but it's not completely unreasonable.

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03-15-2013, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
you need 50 goals a year for 20 seasons to get his goals record
you need on average 140-150 points a year over the same 20 years to get the points record.

the answer is no
It would actually be an average of 44.7 goals per season for someone playing 29 seasons.

If a player would try to break the goals record he would probably be playing for a long time, maybe until around 43 like Selanne.

This would mean they'd need to average 35.76 goals per season, which is definitely possible, the player would just have to be a generational talent that gets really lucky with injuries.

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03-15-2013, 07:58 AM
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Regarding career totals, I ran some sample numbers a while back

Quote:
For those who think it's insane.

Lets say Crosby finishes this year with 65 points.

That'll give him 674 points for his career and he will turn 26 over the summer.

Lets say that for each of the next 5 seasons (until the season in which he's 30) he averages 110 points. Again, that seems like a low estimate given what we've seen out of him the last 3 years. 5 * 115 = 550 points

Then for the next 4 years (31, 32, 33, 34) he averages 85 points. That's another 340 points.

Then for the 3 after that (35, 36, 37) he averages 70 points. That's another 210 points.

Then in his last 2 years he scores 50 points a year.

He would retire when he turns 40 and have 1874 points, only 13 behind Messier.

None of those numbers are anything but reasonable for a healthy elite talent to put up and most of them are actually below what you'd expect from Crosby. It's certainly possible to squeeze another 13 points in that career graph without issue
Assuming he stays healthy, I think those are actually fairly conservative numbers

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Old
03-15-2013, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Better question would be can they catch his points if only his assists are counted?

Answer is still no
If Crosby could conceivably play around 1500 games, which would be until around 40, assuming no major injuries (and taking account some games for injury), it's definitely possible, but he'd have to average 1.3 PPG.

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