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Hypothetically speaking...could Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin or Stamkos break Gretzkys...

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Old
03-15-2013, 10:06 AM
  #51
BeastoftheEast85
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I could see a player come along and maintain high scoring combined with longevity to overtake Gretzky's goals record. I mean Howe would certainly still hold that record if he had not joined the WHL and Bobby Hull would have been fairly close to. Stamkos could even have an outside shot and maybe Ovechkin if he miraculously got back to where he was.

His point record on the other hand will take a long, long time to break. You would need a player first of all will the offensive prowess, and extreme longevity to break the record; probably a once in 70-100 year player. Combine that with another high scoring era, which may not come for another 50-100 years. Then he needs to happen to end up on such a talented offensive team like the 1980s Oilers, which is less likely in the drafting/non-whl era. Lastly, he needs to avoid any major injuries. It could take 400 years+ (All these yearly dates are just random guesses out of my head), if hockey is still around then to break a record like that.



His point record

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03-15-2013, 10:13 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shizno View Post
If you take Crosby and replace Gretzky for him in every game Gretzky played, Crosby shatters all of his records, blindfolded, with his dryer chained to his left ankle
no chance at all, none, zero ,zilch.

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03-15-2013, 10:22 AM
  #53
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For Crosby to beat Gretzky's point record he needs (assuming 75 points this season) another 2174 points.

If he plays until 40 that means he has 15 more seasons. He would need to average 145 points a season. That's higher than his PPG at any season of his career and he would have to average that over 15 seasons.

If he maintained his current 1.4 PPG average over his career he would have to play until 44. If he dropped down to a 1.1 PPG average for career he would have to play until 50.

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03-15-2013, 10:27 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by od71 View Post
I think Gretzky himself couldn't beat his own record in a modern hockey
I think he could hit 200pts in today's NHL. Maybe not FOUR times like he did in the 80s, but once, yeah, I could see it.

Crosby's playing at a 140pt pace today. He's in the Jagr, Peter Stastny, Mike Bossy, Bryan Trottier, Lafleur level at their peak, give or take....and Gretzky was THAT MUCH better than they were.

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Originally Posted by SabresFan44 View Post
I am aware of all of that, I just want to know which record these guys could break of his.

Perhaps goal record....Ovechkin has 349 goals. All he needs is another 556 goals. LOL, all he needs...yeah but its possible. Same with Stamkos and Crosby IMO
I think Stamkos could break Gretzky's goal scoring record, if he stays healthy. And this is why:

- he is completely dedicated to physical fitness, nutrition and his hockey career
- he's got passion for the game, he wants to be the best and puts in the work
- he's young enough and has had enough early success to have a shot at 900 goals - very few players have that
- he's a pure goal scorer, rather than a pass-first set-up guy, like Gretzky/Crosby/Mario/Jagr
- he's got timeless ability, in that, he scores the types of goals that transcend eras. He's got Brett Hull-like shooting ability and like Hull/Bossy, he's impossible to stop. He'll get his goals no matter what. Quick release, the speed/power of the shot, ability to get open, willingness to battle and maintain stick position in close
- what makes him a great scorer may also hurt him with injury though, like it did Bossy. The advantage Stamkos has is the league rules, they are NOW intent on protecting their star players. The league no longer allows clutching/grabbing/holding/cross-checks to the back on players in front of the net. That killed Bossy's chances of playing longer (though he always said he was going to retire fairly young)

For Stamkos to break Gretzky's record he'd have to average 40 goals for the next 17 years, until he's 39.

That may sound astronomical but I don't think it is. I can see him scoring 50+ for 4-5 more years, 40+ for a bunch more which would require him to score 30+ into his late 30s. If he stays healthy and committed to fitness, he could be one of the "youngest" 40 year olds the NHL has ever seen.

Consider this: Stamkos could be an unrestricted free agent in three years, at 25-26. Imagine he chooses a team where he can play with, say, a young-ish John Tavares or Ryan Nugent-Hopkins or Connor McDavid and gives up a few dollars to put him in a situation where he could play with a great playmaker (which would be a smart move for him, by the way. He'll already have as much money as God and Stamkos is not someone motivated by money at all). I remember Selanne/Kariya did a pay-cut thing to try and win a cup in COL (didn't work) but if I'm Stamkos, I'd look for a situation that might allow him to be both personally successful and have a chance to win a cup or two, giving up a dollar where possible (in a cap world).

The other thing going for Stammer is the NHL seems committed to increasing scoring. So restrictions to goalie equipment (like 4on4, removing centre-ice for offsides, more PPs) is probably something that will continue in perpetuity.

Very few players in the 80s were as committed to health and fitness as players are today. Bossy was a smoker, Gretzky didn't really eat right or exercise (mind you, he was out-of-this-world competitive and talented), Lafleur lived like a rock star, and he was no Reggie Leach. Plus, the game was so much more physical back then, the wear and tear would kill anyone's chances of playing well into their mid thirties. Those were rare exceptions.

But look how effective Messier was later in his career? Sakic? Chelios?

Gretzky's dominance in hockey, over other superstars, is almost inexplicable. Stamkos would need another 300 games or so (more than Gretzky's) to be able to come close to 99s goal record.

And I do think it's crazy to suggest Stammer could score 900 goals - but then again, if anyone can do it, it's probably him.


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Originally Posted by UCantHandleMyRiddum View Post
LOL!

On another note, I wish there was a Wayne Gretzky award for assists.
great idea.

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Old
03-15-2013, 10:28 AM
  #55
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noneof them will but connor mcdavid will

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03-15-2013, 10:39 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastoftheEast85 View Post
I could see a player come along and maintain high scoring combined with longevity to overtake Gretzky's goals record. I mean Howe would certainly still hold that record if he had not joined the WHL and Bobby Hull would have been fairly close to. Stamkos could even have an outside shot and maybe Ovechkin if he miraculously got back to where he was.

His point record on the other hand will take a long, long time to break. You would need a player first of all will the offensive prowess, and extreme longevity to break the record; probably a once in 70-100 year player. Combine that with another high scoring era, which may not come for another 50-100 years. Then he needs to happen to end up on such a talented offensive team like the 1980s Oilers, which is less likely in the drafting/non-whl era. Lastly, he needs to avoid any major injuries. It could take 400 years+ (All these yearly dates are just random guesses out of my head), if hockey is still around then to break a record like that.



His point record
With the technology and modern goalie skill and technique, I highly doubt the NHL will regress into another high scoring era like Gretzky was a part of.

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03-15-2013, 10:52 AM
  #57
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We had one player break the 100 point threshold last season. One.

No one is going to even be allowed to look upon that record, let alone touch it unless something major happens with records to scoring.

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03-15-2013, 11:08 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
I think he could hit 200pts in today's NHL. Maybe not FOUR times like he did in the 80s, but once, yeah, I could see it.
I don't think he breaks 170 in today's game.

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03-15-2013, 11:11 AM
  #59
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Even if you combined the two best career totals from any of those players you might get close to his point total.

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03-15-2013, 11:25 AM
  #60
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It's the same game, but the game has changed. Modern hockey is a different animal than it was in Gretzky's day. I dont think his record will ever be broken.

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03-15-2013, 11:29 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h0ckeyman View Post
With the technology and modern goalie skill and technique, I highly doubt the NHL will regress into another high scoring era like Gretzky was a part of.
We're hovering around 5.25 GPG. Gretzky's era was around 7.5 GPG.

The ideal level is 6 GPG. That's what the NHL should strive towards.

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03-15-2013, 11:43 AM
  #62
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They (I mean Crosby only) MAY have a chance to be second on the list. NEVER beat Gretzky's record. 4 x 200+pts.... cmon.

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03-15-2013, 12:08 PM
  #63
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there is just no way in the current culture of the game that any player alive can touch Gretzky's record in their career. i think Crosby has the best shot of the four players mentioned, but even at his best i think he'll be off by about 500-700 points (assuming he doesn't get injured majorly at all for the rest of his career AND he maintains his already high PPG rate, which is unlikely)

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03-15-2013, 12:23 PM
  #64
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No. There just aren't enough goals scored to do it in this particular era. Crosby would have to play 19 more full seasons without his career PPG dipping to get there. In other words, he'd have to basically be a 130 point player at age 44. There's just no way.

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03-15-2013, 02:12 PM
  #65
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To put things further into perspective; Alex Ovechkin just reached 700 points, this being his 8th season in the league. Gretzky reached 1,000 points in only his 6th season! At his career pace (which still averages to 97 points a year!), Ovechkin will reach 1,000 career points late in his 11th year. Realistically though, he probably won't reach it until his 12 year as his points-per-game average is dropping. Gretzky hit the 2,000 point mark early in his 12th season. After this point, Gretzky still had 5 more seasons over 90 points and 3 more over 100 points, even as league scoring was dropping dramatically and he was aging well past his prime years.

...but Ovechin, Malkin, Crosby or Stamkos could totally break that record

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03-15-2013, 02:13 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresFan44 View Post
Could one of those four beat his point record.

I know its highly unlikely but Ovechkin just got to 700 points. Crosby if he stays healthy.

Then there is Stamkos who could put up 50 goal seasons for a long time.

If not points record, could one of them break any of Gretzkys records, if so which one.
None of them will even come close.

Although each of them has been very impressive at times.

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03-15-2013, 02:13 PM
  #67
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Didn't Gretzky get second in scoring during one of the dead-puck years? He really was a once-a-century talent.

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03-15-2013, 02:22 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h0ckeyman View Post
With the technology and modern goalie skill and technique, I highly doubt the NHL will regress into another high scoring era like Gretzky was a part of.
The technology of bigger while at the same time lighter and better pads is what enables the technique.

If they limited goalie equipment to the size needed to actually protect the goalie, and stopped letting them look like walking billboards, they would have to actually move to make a save and then presto.. higher scoring era.

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03-15-2013, 02:31 PM
  #69
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I'll be impressed if any of them put up 90 points at age 36.
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03-15-2013, 02:37 PM
  #70
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Needs to have his production here for the next six seasons(his prime) which means push 120 ever year, and then have Selanne like longevity with 80+ point production until he's over forty. That's what it will take.

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03-15-2013, 02:41 PM
  #71
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If Stamkos could manage a couple 70+goal seasons with no more lockouts or significant injuries, he has an outside chance.

maybe... 5%? Yep, definitely 5%

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03-15-2013, 02:44 PM
  #72
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Well I mean, hypothetically anything is possible, but in reality no.

His point total is so outrageously immense that I doubt anyone EVER reaches it...

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03-15-2013, 02:45 PM
  #73
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Doubtful is optimistic. NHL is different than it was back then. If Crosby does manage to get to 2000 points, then he should definitely be in the conversation as one of the top four forwards, if not players, of all time, especially when one considers how complete his game is.

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03-15-2013, 02:47 PM
  #74
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Asking could Crosby and Ovechkin COMBINE to break Gretzky's points record would be a better question.

It would be close but I doubt even that.

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Old
03-15-2013, 03:13 PM
  #75
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Different time, different game. Unless they change net size, it's not happening. Shots that were goals during Gretzky's prime are now nothing more than routine saves.

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