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Which player had the best skillset in their prime?

View Poll Results: Player with the best skillset
Mario Lemieux 46 34.59%
Wayne Gretzky 50 37.59%
Sergei Fedorov 17 12.78%
Peter Forsberg 1 0.75%
Eric Lindros 5 3.76%
Pavel Bure 5 3.76%
Sidney Crosby 1 0.75%
Alexei Kovalev 2 1.50%
Jaromir Jagr 5 3.76%
Alex Ovechkin 1 0.75%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-16-2013, 12:48 AM
  #26
Nalyd Psycho
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Gordie Howe?

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03-16-2013, 01:11 AM
  #27
Syckle78
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Voted for Gretzky. Not sure why Howe wasn't an option. Not to say I would take him over Gretzky, but he has as impressive skill set as anyone. Assuming Orr was left off because he was a defenseman, another player who had a tool sheds worth of tools.

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03-16-2013, 06:21 AM
  #28
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It's totally ridiculous how overrated Fedorov gets on this board. For God's sake, he was barely a PPG player (with tremendous supporting cast) for most of his prime. I'm not even sure I'd take him over someone like Toews, for instance.

The OP is asking who was the best player, right? Gretzky definitely wasn't the most skilled player ever, he wasn't known for his dangling, didn't make spectatular plays and didn't have a great shot but yeah, if you factor in his hockey IQ, he has to be up there. There were certainly players who could do more awesome things with the puck though.

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Old
03-16-2013, 06:32 AM
  #29
Dennis Bonvie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87center View Post
Things to take into consideration: Skating, overall shooting ability, hockey sense, passing and playmaking, puck control, checking in the offensive and defensive zone.

Note: Crosby is included even though he is in prime right now. Moreover, I believe we have seen Ovi`s best years so I included him as well.
No one does all of the above as well as Crosby.

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Old
03-16-2013, 07:05 AM
  #30
begbeee
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Even such greats like Gretz or Mario missed some skills. So we are still waiting for the perfect hockey player. Great, there is so much room for improvments of the records!
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Originally Posted by Rexor View Post
It's totally ridiculous how overrated Fedorov gets on this board. For God's sake, he was barely a PPG player (with tremendous supporting cast) for most of his prime.
According to another thread here.. Doesn't matter for him. He got a free pass, because he could do everything when he wants to do everything.

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Old
03-16-2013, 09:00 AM
  #31
Big Phil
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Beliveau is a name that jumps out at me as well that is missed. Also, if you are talking about the complete package I think Trottier deserves a mention. Neither player really had a flaw. They were exceptional all around players

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03-16-2013, 11:04 AM
  #32
87center
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Originally Posted by LeBlondeDemon10 View Post
Well, I am a little miffed that the OP showed no love for The Flower, Orr and Perreault, but I'm guessing that the OP is a little younger and is basing this poll on the players he has seen. No problem.
.
I never got to see Lafleur, Orr, Yanic, Howe, Beliveau and Trottier when they were at their best night in and night out. They were before my time. Even if I went to youtube and watched highlights and commentary I would never get an accurate assessment of their overall abilities as you have to watch a player for many seasons, seeing his good games and bad games, how he performs against weak teams, strong teams, good defensive systems and most importantly how he performs in the playoffs. That said, there are some things that you can assess if you view the highlights of Lafelur and Orr. They could flat out fly when they had the puck on their stick.

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03-16-2013, 11:32 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Ultimately, I can understand arguments for three answers from the list.

Gretzky. The argument being that although he had weaknesses in certain areas (defense/checking being the most notable), he was so good at others that it more than compensated. He is the choice if you are choosing based on which player is the best overall player, or if you are choosing based on who is able to best utilize the skills they did have.

Lemieux. He didn't have Gretzky's hockey IQ, but was a better skater and physical player. He is the choice if you are choosing based on which player is the most naturally gifted.

Fedorov. He was good at everything. Arguably the best skater the league has ever seen, elite defender, stellar puckhandling, massive and accurate shot, and an excellent playmaker. And he had a high hockey IQ. He is the only player on the list who has/had no weaknesses. He is the choice if you are choosing based on which player has the most well-rounded game.
Gretzky - agreed

Lemieux - agreed

Fedorov - while everything you say is technically true, he's also one of the worst forwards on the list. He never won a scoring title, only came close once (and that was to Gretzky playing like his 15 or 16th year of professional hockey or something silly), and was never even the clear choice for best player on his own team. Yes he was good in the playoffs, but so were Gretzky and Lemieux.

Fedorov's playoffs get him treated like he was Patrick Roy winning Con Smythes hand over fist or something. He was a really good playoff performer on the best team in hockey. You could try to say the same about Gretzky, except he has the Smythes to go with it, numerous playoff records, and took a sub par team to the finals once while scoring more assists than anyone else on his team had points.

Fedorov also had a habit of coasting through the regular season. He's more overrated than Forsberg lately.

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Old
03-17-2013, 05:42 PM
  #34
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Skillset is Mario (case could be made for Orr, though). The difference between him and Gretzky wasn't in the latter having any sort of skill advantage.

Edit: huh, if hockey sense is being included, this isn't really a skillset poll, so much as who's the best guy poll. In which case, it's Wayne.

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03-17-2013, 06:19 PM
  #35
Mad Max
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The best skillset(shooting, passing, skating, defense) would be Sergei Fedorov, IMO. But having the best overall skillset doesn't automatically equal dominance.

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03-17-2013, 07:09 PM
  #36
tazzy19
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
No doubt Lemieux. Gretzky fans are groupies. 99 had the passing and anticipation but 66 was not far behind. Lemieux physical edge and goal scoring makes up for this.
Except Gretzky has 4 of the top 10 goal scoring seasons of all time, and Lemieux only has 1 (yes, that's one ), and of course Gretzky has the top 2 goal scoring seasons of all time. Mario doesn't even have the 3rd best (that belongs to Brett Hull). Not to mention that Gretzky got to 200 goals, 300 goals, 400 goals, 500 goals, 600 goals, and 700 goals all in less games than Lemieux. Therefore keep in mind that Lemieux's GPG average only went higher than Gretzky's after Gretzky was past his prime. Also keep in mind that Gretzky played far more games past his prime than Lemieux did, which of course drastically hurt Gretzky's GPG average. It's still rather comical that despite the fact that Lemieux had played far less games than Gretzky did throughout his entire career (and therefore should have had a higher GPG average than Gretzky), Gretzky still somehow reached each milestone is less games than it took Lemieux and had the higher GPG average than Lemieux over the same number of games. Just goes to show how great Gretzky really was I guess....

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Old
03-17-2013, 07:19 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
By your criteria I'd say Fedorov. One of the greatest skaters (both speed and power), rocket shot, very good puck handler and hockey sense, phenomenal defensive checking ability.

Lemieux's off the chart level of skill, physical talent, and IQ should make him #1 though.
I can see your point and the last 2 criteria of checking really puts a wrench in the list but I really think and view skill set as pure offensive talent and didn't vote due to the monkey wrench.

Why didn't he throw in toughness and intimidation and add Howe I wonder. Lindros would fare better if that was added as well.

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03-17-2013, 08:04 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87center View Post
I think Feds deserves to be listed as Gretzky and Yzerman have gone on record saying that he`s the most talented player they have ever seen. Moreover, when you look at Fedorov`s prime and Kovalev`s prime the former accomplished a lot more. I`m not sure what you mean by "Lindros head"? Are you talking about durability here or hockey IQ? Lindros was a talented physical specimen in his prime. Great wrist shot, slap shot, checking ability, and underrated skating ability. He was powerful skater that was very hard to knock off the puck.
Not to be a dick, but Gretz says a lot when the day is long. You could probably fill a page with player names he said were the best or most talented or so. He seems to be a really polite guy.

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Old
03-17-2013, 08:06 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Gordie Howe?
I was baffled he was not on this list when people like Kovalev are there.

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Old
03-18-2013, 05:03 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by tazzy19 View Post
Except Gretzky has 4 of the top 10 goal scoring seasons of all time, and Lemieux only has 1 (yes, that's one ), and of course Gretzky has the top 2 goal scoring seasons of all time. Mario doesn't even have the 3rd best (that belongs to Brett Hull). Not to mention that Gretzky got to 200 goals, 300 goals, 400 goals, 500 goals, 600 goals, and 700 goals all in less games than Lemieux. Therefore keep in mind that Lemieux's GPG average only went higher than Gretzky's after Gretzky was past his prime. Also keep in mind that Gretzky played far more games past his prime than Lemieux did, which of course drastically hurt Gretzky's GPG average. It's still rather comical that despite the fact that Lemieux had played far less games than Gretzky did throughout his entire career (and therefore should have had a higher GPG average than Gretzky), Gretzky still somehow reached each milestone is less games than it took Lemieux and had the higher GPG average than Lemieux over the same number of games. Just goes to show how great Gretzky really was I guess....
Because lemieux played with some all star linemates like gretzky did at the start of his career right? Pittsburgh was a laughing stock of a team when Mario was drafted. Put that into perspective. Marios "prime" is also debatable due to his cancer/back issues. The guy would have been the GOAT if the stars aligned right, which it did for gretzky. The guy also had arguably as good a season as gretzkys greatest scoring 199 points while missing 8 games.

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03-18-2013, 05:30 AM
  #41
TAnnala
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
No doubt Lemieux. Gretzky fans are groupies. 99 had the passing and anticipation but 66 was not far behind. Lemieux physical edge and goal scoring makes up for this.
I'd say it is close between these two. But the edge Lemieux has in goal scoring and physical power Gretzky makes up in Hockey IQ and passing/playmaking ability.

Offensively Gretzky has had the highest peak in all three categories. Raw points, on pace points and adjusted points. Can't really see how Lemieux should be a clear choice here.

I wen't with Gretzky.

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03-18-2013, 07:27 AM
  #42
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"The Great One" Wayne Gretzky.

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03-18-2013, 07:49 AM
  #43
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Eric Lindros

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03-18-2013, 08:44 AM
  #44
shazariahl
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Originally Posted by NhlFan84 View Post
Because lemieux played with some all star linemates like gretzky did at the start of his career right? Pittsburgh was a laughing stock of a team when Mario was drafted. Put that into perspective. Marios "prime" is also debatable due to his cancer/back issues. The guy would have been the GOAT if the stars aligned right, which it did for gretzky. The guy also had arguably as good a season as gretzkys greatest scoring 199 points while missing 8 games.
He only missed 4 games. He played 76 out of 80 games that season. Gretzky scored 205 once while missing 6 games.

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03-18-2013, 12:03 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by NhlFan84 View Post
Because lemieux played with some all star linemates like gretzky did at the start of his career right? Pittsburgh was a laughing stock of a team when Mario was drafted. Put that into perspective. Marios "prime" is also debatable due to his cancer/back issues. The guy would have been the GOAT if the stars aligned right, which it did for gretzky. The guy also had arguably as good a season as gretzkys greatest scoring 199 points while missing 8 games.
I always have a hard time with that argument. Surely Edmonton became a great team quickly but some forget that Gretzky came in the NHL in an expansion team and they only became a winning team on the 3rd season. When Gretzky won his first Hart and tied for the scoring title, the leading scorers in Edmonton after him were MacDonald, Weir, Callighen, Lumley, Hunter, Hicks, Chipperfield...

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03-18-2013, 12:18 PM
  #46
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The question wasn't "who was the best forward" but "who had the best (and, apparently the most diverse) skillset." The answer is Fedorov / Lemieux.

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Old
03-18-2013, 02:10 PM
  #47
shazariahl
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
The question wasn't "who was the best forward" but "who had the best (and, apparently the most diverse) skillset." The answer is Fedorov / Lemieux.
If Fedorov had the best skill set it would have shown itself with more points. The only thing he did at an elite level vs most this list was play defence but his point production is very lacking vs most the names in this poll.

As for Lemieux what skill set did he have that Gretzky didnt? Note that I dont consider being bigger to be a skill.

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Old
03-18-2013, 02:41 PM
  #48
tazzy19
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Originally Posted by NhlFan84 View Post
Because lemieux played with some all star linemates like gretzky did at the start of his career right? Pittsburgh was a laughing stock of a team when Mario was drafted. Put that into perspective. Marios "prime" is also debatable due to his cancer/back issues. The guy would have been the GOAT if the stars aligned right, which it did for gretzky. The guy also had arguably as good a season as gretzkys greatest scoring 199 points while missing 8 games.
I don't think you're taking into account a little season called 1981-82. Just a refresher: Gretzky scored a record 92 goals, but if you remove every single one of them, he STILL would have demolished everyone on his team with his assists alone (120 assists). The 2nd leading scorer on that team was Glen Anderson, who had 105 points. Besides Anderson, no one else on the team even cracked 90 points! Jari Kurri was a rookie, and had something like 32 goals. Gretzky's 212 points that season came out of nowhere. He more than doubled anyone else on his team. Mario Lemieux never did anything like that....ever.

As for Mario's 199 point season, Gretzky had two better on pace seasons than that one. In fact, he was on pace for 240 points in 83-84 before he was injured after scoring 3 PPG over 51 straight games. If we are to give Mario the "what ifs", we must do the same for Gretzky.....but this becomes a very treacherous road for the Mario side of the argument.

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03-18-2013, 02:46 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by shazariahl View Post
He only missed 4 games. He played 76 out of 80 games that season. Gretzky scored 205 once while missing 6 games.
Scoring was lower during Lemieux peak though.

The part where i said Lemieux "without doubt" was intentional, lets say i did it for the same reason some do it when choosing Gretzky in terms of peak performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tazzy19 View Post
Except Gretzky has 4 of the top 10 goal scoring seasons of all time, and Lemieux only has 1 (yes, that's one ), and of course Gretzky has the top 2 goal scoring seasons of all time. Mario doesn't even have the 3rd best (that belongs to Brett Hull). Not to mention that Gretzky got to 200 goals, 300 goals, 400 goals, 500 goals, 600 goals, and 700 goals all in less games than Lemieux. Therefore keep in mind that Lemieux's GPG average only went higher than Gretzky's after Gretzky was past his prime. Also keep in mind that Gretzky played far more games past his prime than Lemieux did, which of course drastically hurt Gretzky's GPG average. It's still rather comical that despite the fact that Lemieux had played far less games than Gretzky did throughout his entire career (and therefore should have had a higher GPG average than Gretzky), Gretzky still somehow reached each milestone is less games than it took Lemieux and had the higher GPG average than Lemieux over the same number of games. Just goes to show how great Gretzky really was I guess....
I am aware that gretzky was before his time, but he slowly came closer to earth by the time he was around 25. Still a beast, but no goal scoring God. Lemieux tore up a whole other league, with that i'm now mainly referring to the nineties.

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03-18-2013, 02:50 PM
  #50
tazzy19
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Scoring was lower during Lemieux peak though.

The part where i said Lemieux "without doubt" was intentional, lets say i did it for the same reason some do it when choosing Gretzky in terms of peak performance.


I am aware that gretzky was before his time, but he slowly came closer to earth by the time he was around 25. Still a beast, but no goal scoring God. Lemieux tore up a whole other league, with that i'm now referring to the nineties though.
No argument there. Lemieux was a better goal scorer than Gretzky in the 90s. But there again, Wayne was well past his prime at that point. And this thread is about their primes.

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