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Have Phoenix and/or current Winnipeg franchises any right to retire Selanne's number?

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Old
03-16-2013, 10:22 AM
  #76
Samkow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsFlyHigh View Post
Okay, I'm confused.

Is it allowed to retire a number of a player even if he's not in your team?
Is it allowed to retire a number of a player even if it's an another franchise?
Is it allowed to retire a number of a player that never played for your city?

What are the OFFICIAL rules?
There aren't any. The Minnesota Wild retired the #1 before their opening game in 2000, to "honor the fans." Other then being incredibly corny, it was perfectly legal.

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Old
03-16-2013, 10:24 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojac View Post
I'm not an American and the new Winnipeg Jets are not a continuation of the old Jets. Only Winnipeg fans who want to delude themselves into thinking that they never lost their team believe that. The current Winnipeg Jets are a continuation of the Atlanta Thrashers franchise and nothing else. In fact, I despise any attempts by the new Jets to leach onto a legacy that is not theirs. Other than the fact that the two teams happen to be based in the same city and have the same team nickname, there is no connection between the old Jets and the new Jets. If I was a fan of the old Jets, I would be happy to see the NHL back in Winnipeg, but offended by the attempts by the concept of that team having any connection to the former Jets.

So, if I move to Los Angeles and legally change my name to Heath Ledger, do I get to claim the late actor's work on my resume? Of course not, everyone would know that I am just trying to pretend to be the actor. Just like everyone knows that any connections that the current Winnipeg Jets (formerly the Atlanta Thrashers) try to draw to the old Jets are largely make believe, except for more general things like celebrating Winnipeg hockey heritage, for example.

If it's only the location that's important, what happens with cities with two teams. If the Islanders, say five years after they've moved to Brooklyn, decide to move to Albuquerque, do the New York Rangers suddenly get to claim all the Islanders history and records as their own?
Different fan bases in New York. The Old Jets fans are the same as the New Jets fans. It really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. To us, they're the same team.

People can ***** and moan on the internet all they want, but all that matters is in the minds of Jets fans.


Last edited by jigglysquishy: 03-16-2013 at 10:33 AM.
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Old
03-16-2013, 10:28 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP View Post
Since #99 is retired with all of the NHL teams then yes Selanne's number can be retired with his origional franchise as well. I wouldn't see any reason why not seeing what he has done with the Jets. In addition Thomas Steen, Bobby Hull, and Dale Hawerchuk still have their numbers retired with this same franchise now in Phoenix and have never played one day as a member of the Phoenix Coyotes. Of course, if Selanne does have his number retired with the franchise in AZ it will be under the same colors of that of the old Jets franchise.
technically a player is blocked from wearing 99 by the NHL organization. (dumb idea IMO. In today's hockey Gretzky would be a shadow of his former self)

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Old
03-16-2013, 10:39 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
Different fan bases in New York. The Old Jets fans are the same as the New Jets fans. It really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. To us, they're the same team.

People can ***** and moan on the internet all they want, but all that matters is in the minds of Jets fans.
That's all good, but the fact is that Selanne never played a game for this franchise. He played in the city, yes, but he never played for Atlanta or the new Jets. It actually does matter to the NHL and the rest of the league because Selanne played in what is now the Phoenix organization. He played in the city of Winnipeg, but never a game for these Jets.

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Old
03-16-2013, 10:43 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
That's all good, but the fact is that Selanne never played a game for this franchise. He played in the city, yes, but he never played for Atlanta or the new Jets. It actually does matter to the NHL and the rest of the league because Selanne played in what is now the Phoenix organization. He played in the city of Winnipeg, but never a game for these Jets.
I can guarantee you the NHL wouldn't hesitate for a second to allow TNSE to honor Selanne in any way they saw fit.

I don't know why everyone is so against Winnipeg celebrating its history.

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Old
03-16-2013, 11:09 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
That's all good, but the fact is that Selanne never played a game for this franchise. He played in the city, yes, but he never played for Atlanta or the new Jets. It actually does matter to the NHL and the rest of the league because Selanne played in what is now the Phoenix organization. He played in the city of Winnipeg, but never a game for these Jets.
Why fans in Winnipeg should care about history in Atlanta ?
Or why fans in Phoenix should care about history in Winnipeg ?
Only because technically, and technically only its the same franchise ?

Those "retiring jerseys" ceremonies are primary for fans, so they can thank players for what their done to their teams...Im sure even Kovalchuk or Selanne would feel odd being honored by teams they never played for.

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03-16-2013, 11:09 AM
  #82
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Simple solution.

Winnipeg has a ceremony honoring Teemu's rookie record because it is NHL history that happened in their city. This is done after Teemu retires and before a Jet's game. Teemu is of course there to be honored for his "achievement". #13 gets hoisted to the rafters. No official "retirement" of the number occurs but if the Jets like they can refuse to issue it to any player going forward. (Most athletes consider it superstitious and wouldn't want it anyway.)

Fans now will always get to see Teemu's jersey in the rafters and it was never "retired". Win/win?

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Old
03-16-2013, 11:22 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojac View Post
The current Winnipeg Jets are a continuation of the Atlanta Thrashers franchise and nothing else.
Absolutely true - similarly Phoenix Coyotes are continuation of expansion era Jets.

Therefore the two share more history with each other than the current Jets do. Just take a look at the numbers Coyotes have as retired: Hawerchuk #10, Hull #9 and Steen #25.

In my opinion, preserving the Jets' legacy with those is fine. Also retiring Numminen who played for both Coyotes and Jets is equally OK.

But retiring Selanne, who was active at the time but never played for the relocated team, would be honoring something that never existed.

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Old
03-16-2013, 12:32 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acor View Post
Everyone is allowed to retire anyone's number.
There are no official rules.
Isn't WG retired everywhere ? And he certainly didn't play for every team..
Okay, just to be clear, there are NO rules?

Then let's do whatever we want.

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Old
03-16-2013, 01:07 PM
  #85
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Why would a team retire the jersey of a player who has never played for that franchise?

Only team that has any claim is Anaheim.

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Old
03-16-2013, 01:12 PM
  #86
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I'll say it again, if the current Jets owners are going to line their pockets with merchandise and season ticket money using the Winnipeg Jets name, then they owe it to the city's Jets fans to honour the past while they laugh their way to the bank.

So to those of you saying the new Jets have nothing to do with the old Jets are wrong. That was decided when they called them the Jets.

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Old
03-16-2013, 01:17 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedDemon View Post
technically a player is blocked from wearing 99 by the NHL organization. (dumb idea IMO. In today's hockey Gretzky would be a shadow of his former self)
Well, he is 52 years old.

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Old
03-16-2013, 01:17 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandChelems View Post
I'll say it again, if the current Jets owners are going to line their pockets with merchandise and season ticket money using the Winnipeg Jets name, then they owe it to the city's Jets fans to honour the past while they laugh their way to the bank.

So to those of you saying the new Jets have nothing to do with the old Jets are wrong. That was decided when they called them the Jets.
They called them the Jets to honor the old team.

They aren't a continuation because the "official" Jets-- all the records and history--resides in Phoenix according to the League.

It's more like the new Senators- they picked the name to honor the old team. They aren't a continuation of it.

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03-16-2013, 01:19 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
They called them the Jets to honor the old team.

They aren't a continuation because the "official" Jets-- all the records and history--resides in Phoenix according to the League.

It's more like the new Senators- they picked the name to honor the old team. They aren't a continuation of it.
Officiality really means nothing to no one.

The Jets are a continuation of the old Jets. As far as Winnipeg fans are concerned (the only population base that matters) it's a continuation of the old team. As far as I'm concerned Kovalchuck never played for the Winnipeg Jets.

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Old
03-16-2013, 01:21 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsFlyHigh View Post
Okay, just to be clear, there are NO rules?

Then let's do whatever we want.
Sure there are no any.
Some people realy thought there are official rules regulating this ?

Quote:
Why would a team retire the jersey of a player who has never played for that franchise?
Who cares about FRANCHISE ? Its all about what FANS think...

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Old
03-16-2013, 01:21 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
Officiality really means nothing to no one.

The Jets are a continuation of the old Jets. As far as Winnipeg fans are concerned (the only population base that matters) it's a continuation of the old team. As far as I'm concerned Kovalchuck never played for the Winnipeg Jets.
And no matter what anyone thinks, it would be silly to retire the jersey of someone who never suited up for the team.

And of course Kovalchuk never played for the Jets. He played for the Thrashers.

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03-16-2013, 01:23 PM
  #92
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I think Winnipeg should retire his number. They drafted and developed him and his rookie year was magical and important.

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Old
03-16-2013, 01:43 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
I think Winnipeg should retire his number. They drafted and developed him and his rookie year was magical and important.
I wouldn't say Jets developed him. His rookie year came right after coming to NHL from Finland. He never played in some lower American league. He was developed by Jokerit (FEL team).

However, no issues for me if WPG wants to retire his number. He still means a lot to their fanbase, even if it's a "different" team. PHX however probably shouldn't, Selšnne never played in Phoenix and their fans don't have the same kind of "bond" with him as WPG.

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03-16-2013, 02:12 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
And no matter what anyone thinks, it would be silly to retire the jersey of someone who never suited up for the team.

And of course Kovalchuk never played for the Jets. He played for the Thrashers.
You don't view the current Jets as a continuation of the old Jets.

You're not a Jets fan.

Therefore, your opinion doesn't matter.

It's a matter for Jets fans to decide.

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Old
03-16-2013, 02:41 PM
  #95
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The Jets can do whatever they want IMO. He'll always be a legend there and means a lot to the city and its fanbase. Those were some amazing seasons. As a Ducks fan, I'm not worried about what Winnipeg does to honor him. I thought the reception for him at his return to Winnipeg was very cool.

As for the Yotes, retiring his number seems ridiculous to me. Having never played as a Coyote in Phoenix - the notion seems silly to be honest. Not to mention he's played against them as a division rival for 14 years as a Duck and 2 as a Shark. It would just seem strange and unnecessary really.

It will be awesome to retire the 8 in the Honda Center, however I hope it stays delayed for however long Teemu wants... its crazy to think I switched my favorite player allegiances from Tverdovsky to Selanne after the trade as a 5 year old and he's been my favorite player ever since and is still going strong. It will be a bittersweet day when it comes.

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Old
03-16-2013, 02:48 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
You don't view the current Jets as a continuation of the old Jets.

You're not a Jets fan.

Therefore, your opinion doesn't matter.

It's a matter for Jets fans to decide.
Neither does the League. Does their opinion not matter?

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03-16-2013, 02:49 PM
  #97
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LOL at all the Jet's fans raging about the majority of the people saying they have no right to retire his number. The only place his number should hang is in ANA. The current Jets have zero connection to him, and have no right to retire his number. If they did, it would just be silly and an attempt to connect themselves to something that actually had success. Same goes for the Coyotes. Even though they are the franchise he once played for, he never actually played for them. Thing is, you won't see Coyote fans pitching a fit about people saying we shouldn't retire his number.

jigglysquishy needs a tissue, stat.

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Old
03-16-2013, 02:50 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
Different fan bases in New York. The Old Jets fans are the same as the New Jets fans. It really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. To us, they're the same team.

People can ***** and moan on the internet all they want, but all that matters is in the minds of Jets fans.
This, it doesn't matter how times the team moves or is sold. Rich guys can't buy history. That belongs to the fans and the players

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Old
03-16-2013, 02:51 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
You don't view the current Jets as a continuation of the old Jets.

You're not a Jets fan.

Therefore, your opinion doesn't matter.

It's a matter for Jets fans to decide.
Oh, Jet's fans make the calls for the organization? News to me. Don't overestimate your importance. We are just fans.

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Old
03-16-2013, 02:53 PM
  #100
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Well Phoenix retired Dale Hawerchuk's number, who never set foot on the ice as a Phoenix Coyote, so anything is possible.

But I would anticipate a couple things...

1. Anaheim will retire/honour the number
2. Winnipeg will honour the number
3. Phoenix will be relocated to Seattle/QC before they have a chance to retire the number.

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