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[Van/PHI] Offseason trade

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Old
03-16-2013, 05:29 PM
  #76
CS
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Cory Schneider for Sean Couturier. With maybe a pick/prospect tossed in by each to even things out. If Philly wants Ballard, then Vancouver certainly would not be putting a 1st in as well.
That's a horrific joke.

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Old
03-16-2013, 05:42 PM
  #77
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***** no. IMO Schnedier will be among the best in the league very very soon. He's having a bad year, by his standards, but he's capable of a lot more.
First off, you have absolutely no basis to make that statement.

Second off, maybe it's not so much about Schneider vs Luongo, (I think Schneider could be as good as Luongo for sure, and he's younger), but the fact that the difference in talent and value to the team is negligible, while his Cory's value to other teams is much higher than Luongo's making him a more logical trade piece.

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Old
03-16-2013, 05:43 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That's a horrific joke.
I don't see why Cory Schneider for Couturier is a joke.

I think it's a fairly reasonable basis for a trade offer.

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Old
03-16-2013, 05:46 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YouCantYandleThis View Post
I don't see why Cory Schneider for Couturier is a joke.

I think it's a fairly reasonable basis for a trade offer.
I believe the joke is "Philly wants Ballard".

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Old
03-16-2013, 05:50 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YouCantYandleThis View Post
I don't see why Cory Schneider for Couturier is a joke.

I think it's a fairly reasonable basis for a trade offer.
You don't trade a young player of Couturier's ilk for a modest upgrade in goal.

Bryz hasn't been good enough, but I don't see any reason to believe that Schneider's numbers would be massively different playing behind this team right now.

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Old
03-16-2013, 06:00 PM
  #81
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I wonder how likely it is the Flyers buy out Bryz. I imagine not very likely, but I wouldn't put it past Snider.

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03-16-2013, 06:11 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Flyers are not the least bit interested in Ballard. If the Flyers miss the playoffs, their 2nd is not going to a much worse pick in this draft than the Canucks 1st.

I wouldn't give you Rinaldo/Talbot for Ballard, so that leaves Couturier for Schneider-- I don't like it. I'd rather put together an offer for Luongo than give up Couturier for Schneider.
Alright make me an offer.

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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
When we're talking about Schneider for Couturier do you really think the change from 38 to 26 really is a deciding factor for either team? Especially in a supposedly deep draft class, the likelihood of either pick being successful has more to do with the strength of the scouting department rather than a 12 spot jump from late 1st to early 2nd.


EDIT: I know Canucks fans won't like it, but this is probably the only way I'd give up Couturier:

Edler
Schneider

for

Couturier
Coburn
Yeah forget it, we will keep Schneider, he will be a better player than Couturier anyways.

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Old
03-16-2013, 06:13 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Alright make me an offer.
I've already said I think Briere for Luongo is something I'd do. Both sides seem to like it for the most part.

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Old
03-16-2013, 06:15 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
It doesn't make sense, but goalies don't hold that much value. Considerably less than Couturier, that's for sure.

Do the Canucks really need Couturier with Kesler on the team though?
Meh sorta, sorta not.

We need a 3C this year, but past that we have centers that can fill the role in the future, and Kesler and Sedin are going nowhere anytime soon, so Couturier would be stuck behind them for awhlie.

I would rather not do this type of a deal though judging by what everyone thinks Couturier's value and by what Flyers fans think Schneiders value is.

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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Surely you're kidding?

Briere + Leighton for Luongo?

(Assuming the Flyers are willing to buy-out Bryzgalov, of course).
If the Flyers eat 1.5 of Briere's cap hit then it's a deal.

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Old
03-16-2013, 06:16 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I've already said I think Briere for Luongo is something I'd do. Both sides seem to like it for the most part.
Like I said above^

If you eat 1.5 of Briere's contract we will do it.

We can't take on 6.5 with the cap coming down, we are already in a sticky situation, if the cap hit is on par with Lu's currently for us then we can make it work.

And from your perspective it is only for 2 years, and only 1.5.

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Old
03-16-2013, 07:40 PM
  #86
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Id rather trade briere for a 1st then trade for luongo.

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Old
03-16-2013, 07:52 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Jray42 View Post
Id rather trade briere for a 1st then trade for luongo.
1. You're assuming that you can get a 1st for Briere, which may or may not be true, given the relatively small number of teams who could afford to fit his cap hit for a playoff run.

2. Why? If you are comfortable with Bryzgalov going forward, then I understand the point. I'm not sure I disagree, really. But if you assume that the Flyers are going to buy out Bryzgalov, Luongo offers stable, consistent production in goal. Meanwhile, you've rid yourself of Briere's cap hit via trade, leaving one compliance buyout in place for the future if necessary (Pronger--if carrying his cap hit during the offseason becomes problematic).

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Old
03-16-2013, 08:13 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by chinatown81592 View Post
I believe the joke is "Philly wants Ballard".
It's not Ballards' fault AV hates him, he has been really steady defensively and he how is he supposed to put up points if he's not ever given opportunities on PP. He is being played in a limited role, he is a top 4 defenseman but, he was never given a fair shake.

The only detraction about him is his price which is probably 1-1.5 million to much.

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Old
03-16-2013, 08:13 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Couldn't make it passed the first sentence without losing all credibility. Almost none of this season is on Bryz. The amount of help he gets from defense and forwards is laughable, and the amount Laviolette is overplaying him is absurd...not like our other options are much better.


People see the Flyers struggling in the standings and without watching any games, automatically look at the goaltender because of his name and the team's history. Watch some games first...
I didn't say the Flyers' current state was on Bryz. I was basing this proposal on the assumption that Philadelphia misses the playoffs. If that were to happen, I made the assumption that Bryz faltering down the stretch will be a major reason for it. From the words of Flyers fans, team defense is the bigger problem, but still the goaltending hasn't been good enough.

Even if after the season the Flyers don't conclude that Bryz is the primary reason for their failure, I still can see the Flyers wanting to get rid of him. Given his play these past two seasons, I highly doubt Philly is comfortable with him playing out the remainder of his contract at that salary. The amnesty buyout gives them a golden opportunity as I think after the amnesty buyout window has closed, Bryz pretty much becomes untradeable (as I think Luongo has) because of his contract. Schneids at 4 mil gives them a much better chance to win these next three years, as well as into the future.

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Old
03-16-2013, 08:19 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by CAPiTA View Post
I didn't say the Flyers' current state was on Bryz. I was basing this proposal on the assumption that Philadelphia misses the playoffs. If that were to happen, I made the assumption that Bryz faltering down the stretch will be a major reason for it. From the words of Flyers fans, team defense is the bigger problem, but still the goaltending hasn't been good enough.

Even if after the season the Flyers don't conclude that Bryz is the primary reason for their failure, I still can see the Flyers wanting to get rid of him. Given his play these past two seasons, I highly doubt Philly is comfortable with him playing out the remainder of his contract at that salary. The amnesty buyout gives them a golden opportunity as I think after the amnesty buyout window has closed, Bryz pretty much becomes untradeable (as I think Luongo has) because of his contract. Schneids at 4 mil gives them a much better chance to win these next three years, as well as into the future.
Couturier + Bryzgalov >>> Schneider

There were other assets, but that's the core of the idea, right? The Flyers deal their best (two) defensive forwards for a young goalie and buyout their disappointing starter.

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Old
03-16-2013, 09:15 PM
  #91
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I want no part of Luongo's contract. It is even worse than Bryz's contract. Luongo is the better goalie by far, but that contract.
I hope the Flyers are smart enough to not take it on.

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Old
03-16-2013, 09:21 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAPiTA View Post
I didn't say the Flyers' current state was on Bryz. I was basing this proposal on the assumption that Philadelphia misses the playoffs. If that were to happen, I made the assumption that Bryz faltering down the stretch will be a major reason for it. From the words of Flyers fans, team defense is the bigger problem, but still the goaltending hasn't been good enough.

Even if after the season the Flyers don't conclude that Bryz is the primary reason for their failure, I still can see the Flyers wanting to get rid of him. Given his play these past two seasons, I highly doubt Philly is comfortable with him playing out the remainder of his contract at that salary. The amnesty buyout gives them a golden opportunity as I think after the amnesty buyout window has closed, Bryz pretty much becomes untradeable (as I think Luongo has) because of his contract. Schneids at 4 mil gives them a much better chance to win these next three years, as well as into the future.
As a Flyer fan, I agree with this....Bryz is simply to inconsistent and that contract is to long....he will be amnestied...you can count on that.

It would seem though that Lou is the same position...he cannot be traded because of that contract and the Flyers certainly are not going to replace one bad contract with another....though I like Lou and his goaltending.

As for Schnied, I like him too and the Flyers are going to be in the market for a goalie this off season.....mayby the Canucks will decide to keep Lou and trade Schnieds.....a trade between our two teams is certainly not out of the question...unless their are any decent Free Agent goalies out there this off season?

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Old
03-16-2013, 09:22 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by FlyingPhilly View Post
I want no part of Luongo's contract. It is even worse than Bryz's contract. Luongo is the better goalie by far, but that contract.
I hope the Flyers are smart enough to not take it on.
I dont understand how Luongo's contract is worse. You realize Luongo will be retiring before it's over, right?

I'd take Luongo's contract over Bryzgalov's ten times out of ten when you consider the goaltending that you're going to get with it.

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03-17-2013, 06:34 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Couturier + Bryzgalov >>> Schneider

There were other assets, but that's the core of the idea, right? The Flyers deal their best (two) defensive forwards for a young goalie and buyout their disappointing starter.
No actually, we either added a second or a first and Philly adds Gust.

The argument made is Philly has enough centre talent they can afford to move Couturier for a big improvement in goal. Your comparison would have merit but as of the moment Couts + Bryz is not getting you into the playoffs.

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03-17-2013, 07:36 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
No actually, we either added a second or a first and Philly adds Gust.

The argument made is Philly has enough centre talent they can afford to move Couturier for a big improvement in goal. Your comparison would have merit but as of the moment Couts + Bryz is not getting you into the playoffs.
And Schneider + a 2nd does?

It is far from certain that Schneider is a "big improvement" over Bryzgalov. He's better, cheaper, and younger, no doubt. But he's simply not worth giving up Couturier for. The upgrade in net comes at the expense of a significant downgrade in team defense. At best, it is a wash, but that doesn't seem likely.

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Old
03-17-2013, 08:03 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by CAPiTA View Post
I watch every Canucks game and fail to see why Keith Ballard is given the short end of the stick. I really think he could thrive in a different market with more opportunity, particularly on the PP, which he could probably get in Philly.
If Ballard is so good, why are looking at dumping him?

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Old
03-17-2013, 08:08 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I dont understand how Luongo's contract is worse. You realize Luongo will be retiring before it's over, right?
He may retire but his cap hit (to the extent its less than his salary) keeps counting. You'll still be paying some cap space until he turns 44.

And that .905 save % suggests that the regression may have stated at age 33 (turns 34 in a few weeks).

There is a ton of risk in trading for Luongo.

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Old
03-17-2013, 08:26 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by slappipappi View Post
He may retire but his cap hit (to the extent its less than his salary) keeps counting. You'll still be paying some cap space until he turns 44.

And that .905 save % suggests that the regression may have stated at age 33 (turns 34 in a few weeks).

There is a ton of risk in trading for Luongo.
No it doesn't.... That only applies to multi-year contracts signed after a player turns 35...

EDIT: Looks like I'm wrong.


Last edited by Jack de la Hoya: 03-17-2013 at 07:49 PM.
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Old
03-17-2013, 09:50 AM
  #99
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Couldn't make it passed the first sentence without losing all credibility. Almost none of this season is on Bryz. The amount of help he gets from defense and forwards is laughable, and the amount Laviolette is overplaying him is absurd...not like our other options are much better.


People see the Flyers struggling in the standings and without watching any games, automatically look at the goaltender because of his name and the team's history. Watch some games first...
This wasn't addressed to me, but.. I've watched a bunch of Flyers games, and Bryz has been wretched. Have other players sucked too? Sure, but that doesn't relieve Bryz from his poor play. You simply aren't going to be a decent team getting goaltending like he's given this year.

Doesn't mean they should trade Couturier or acquire Schneider, but simply acquiring a #1 D (as if that's an easy task) isn't going to solve Philly's problems. They need a better goalie.

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:17 AM
  #100
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If Ballard is so good, why are looking at dumping him?
Coach hates him.

Ballard has been a good soldier about it, but he hasn't fit into Vignault's scheme at all, ever. Total opposite skillset. Before he came to Vancouver he was a puck rusher that threw body checks. Vignault doesn't like that. He made Ballard stop. This left little game for Ballard to play. Total disaster for all involved.

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