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[Van/PHI] Offseason trade

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:55 AM
  #101
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by YouCantYandleThis View Post
I don't see why Cory Schneider for Couturier is a joke.

I think it's a fairly reasonable basis for a trade offer.
If Vancouver adds it is. Straight up its not.

Neither player is close to proven, but goalies traditionally hold much less value and are much less predictable. For those reasons it's not good value straight up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Yeah forget it, we will keep Schneider, he will be a better player than Couturier anyways.
The proposal was bad, but I didn't realize you were Nostradomus.

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Old
03-17-2013, 01:25 PM
  #102
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Ok fans,

What would you suggest the Canucks add to Schneider to get Couturier?

I'd say Tanev, but the Canucks simply don't have a RHD to replace him.

Would you want a forward maybe? Higgins or Raymond? Our 1st?

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Old
03-17-2013, 01:47 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by CAPiTA View Post
Ok fans,

What would you suggest the Canucks add to Schneider to get Couturier?

I'd say Tanev, but the Canucks simply don't have a RHD to replace him.

Would you want a forward maybe? Higgins or Raymond? Our 1st?
That would be appealing

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Old
03-17-2013, 01:49 PM
  #104
Jack de la Hoya
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Originally Posted by CAPiTA View Post
Ok fans,

What would you suggest the Canucks add to Schneider to get Couturier?

I'd say Tanev, but the Canucks simply don't have a RHD to replace him.

Would you want a forward maybe? Higgins or Raymond? Our 1st?
Count me among those who isn't interested in a Couturier-Schneider framework. The 1st is likely to be 25+. The forwards aren't needed, so I guess that leaves Tanev, which is still underwhelming--even if Canucks fans wouldn't do it.

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Old
03-17-2013, 02:03 PM
  #105
kihei
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Originally Posted by greenstickytoes View Post
Cooter isn't leavig philly for a goalie unless its Quick, Miller or Price.
And thats never gonna happen so don't waste your time making
threads like this.
Also i doubt out of all the teams Philly can trade with that Cooter
will end up in Vancouver.
All the crazy trade proposals around here and you choose to dump on this one? Maybe you shouldn't waste your time responding to a thread like this.

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Old
03-17-2013, 02:11 PM
  #106
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by CAPiTA View Post
Ok fans,

What would you suggest the Canucks add to Schneider to get Couturier?

I'd say Tanev, but the Canucks simply don't have a RHD to replace him.

Would you want a forward maybe? Higgins or Raymond? Our 1st?
Wouldn't take much in reality I don't think. Something like Tanev or a 2nd. This is all in a fantasy world where Bryz is gone though.

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Old
03-17-2013, 02:13 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Count me among those who isn't interested in a Couturier-Schneider framework. The 1st is likely to be 25+. The forwards aren't needed, so I guess that leaves Tanev, which is still underwhelming--even if Canucks fans wouldn't do it.
I wish. Canucks don't look like they'll get out of the first round, if they even make the playoffs.

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Old
03-17-2013, 05:16 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by slappipappi View Post
If Ballard is so good, why are looking at dumping him?
The Canucks have a limited number of roster players they can afford to trade, due to redundancy at certain positions. That is why you will continue to see those players named in numerous trade senerios. Just because they are considered redundant and tradable does not mean they are worthless players as many HF fans have come to the idea of. These are the players that are tradable on the Canucks that if traded the team has a similar player they can use to fill the roster spot.

In Goal: one of Schnieder/Luongo - the Canucks only need one and the team considers both pretty equal in skill and what each contribute to the team.

At Forward: one of Booth/Raymond/Higgins - All three are known for their speed and use on the wing of our 2nd & 3rd lines, but we also have Kassian & Hansen making for 5 players competing for 4 roster spots and one press box spot.

On Defense: either of Alberts and Ballard. Both are quality defensemen, Alberts the lesser talented of the two, but Ballard the least suitable to the defensive system AV designs for the Canucks. On the Canucks, the coach does not design his system to fit the talent each of the players have. Every player either conforms to fit AV's systems or that player sits in the press box. Ballard is a highly skilled defenseman who can rush the puck and loves to throw open ice hip checks. On many teams Ballard's skill would make him a top four player on their team, but to AV, all he sees is that Ballard is not playing to the system AV asks him to play.

Ohnoezss posted an even more detailed explanation as to why Ballard doesn't suit the Canucks even though he is a top four level defenseman. I do not know the Flyer's system so I can't comment if Ballard would suite the Flyers or not.

Originally Posted by ohnoeszz View Post

Ballard simply cannot play the Canucks system. He doesn't have the ability to quickly read multiple stretch passes and make passes to different depths up ice. He doesn't grasp their zone defense concepts and keeps slipping into overaggressive man coverage.

These issues however, can be mitigated by him playing within a system which provides low forward support on the breakout and uses more man concepts on the defensive end(CBJ would be a great fit). That style of system also typically draws the fore-check in towards the low forward and this is where Ballard's puck rushing ability comes into play (whereas in VAN it is a risky move with no support that simply leads to Ballard skating into a defense pushed back by forwards getting deep on the breakout).

He is not a broken player, he is a square peg in a round hole. His inability to adjust points towards his limitations as a player, but in the right place his skating ability pays big dividends (particularly against odd man rushes). The Canucks gambled big on the mental side of his game and lost - leading to a lot of terrible production against low competition - but other attentive GMs likely still understand the player Ballard is.

He is not a player that sees the larger picture on the ice. He needs the system to do that for him and place him in spots to succeed. On production, no GM will give value to Van for him. Van will have to accept a measly return or even buy him out based on the simple fact that they can get far more out 4.2 million in other ways. Ballard should still be looked at as a high potential reclaimation project for any team in need of D that has a conservative system.



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Old
03-17-2013, 05:26 PM
  #109
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Sorry but the Canucks aren't adding anything to Schneider. Poster above Schneider and Tanev for Couturier is that a joke?

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Old
03-17-2013, 05:31 PM
  #110
Sergei Shirokov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
If Vancouver adds it is. Straight up its not.

Neither player is close to proven, but goalies traditionally hold much less value and are much less predictable. For those reasons it's not good value straight up.



The proposal was bad, but I didn't realize you were Nostradomus.
I'll take a top 5 goaltender over an elite two-way player or 1st/2nd liner.

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Old
03-17-2013, 05:34 PM
  #111
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If the Flyers trade for a goalie they have to pay Bryz $23 million. That is a big obstacle to a deal like this. They're not going to buy him out, then look around for a goalie, the deal would happen first.

And I don't see them buying Bryz out till next summer when the cost would be significantly lower.

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Old
03-17-2013, 05:42 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
No it doesn't.... That only applies to multi-year contracts signed after a player turns 35...
Nope.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...7517--nhl.html

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Old
03-17-2013, 05:50 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
If the Flyers trade for a goalie they have to pay Bryz $23 million. That is a big obstacle to a deal like this. They're not going to buy him out, then look around for a goalie, the deal would happen first.

And I don't see them buying Bryz out till next summer when the cost would be significantly lower.
If the right deal comes along, they will buy him out. We are no strangers to spending/wasting money.

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Old
03-17-2013, 05:50 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
I'll take a top 5 goaltender over an elite two-way player or 1st/2nd liner.
Who is this top 5 goalie you are talking about?

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Old
03-17-2013, 05:52 PM
  #115
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Couturier shouldn't even be on the block, and a trade like this would not be happening now and would only be an option if Bryzgalov is bought out. Flyers have had way to much roster turnover recently.

Furthermore, I don't think Flyers have any interest in Ballard. The only way I see them getting another defender that isn't an already proven top-pairing defender is if we're getting a young guy.

As I'm sure it's been stated, Vancouver and Philly are bad trading partners.

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Old
03-17-2013, 05:55 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
If the Flyers trade for a goalie they have to pay Bryz $23 million. That is a big obstacle to a deal like this. They're not going to buy him out, then look around for a goalie, the deal would happen first.

And I don't see them buying Bryz out till next summer when the cost would be significantly lower.
this logic is flawed.

Correct me if I m wrong. I m not sure what % of salary is paid in buyout, but if you are buying him out next summer, you'd be paying next year's full salary + % of what's left of the contract. If you are buying him out this summer, the buyout would be % of (next year's full salary + what's left over of the contract), so if you buy out him next summer, you are paying more money to Bryz, also without the salary relief of next year. So they can save money if they buy him out this summer.

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:03 PM
  #117
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Who is this top 5 goalie you are talking about?
*future top 5 goaltender over future elite two-way, 1B forward.

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03-17-2013, 06:03 PM
  #118
achdumeingute
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Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
Couturier shouldn't even be on the block, and a trade like this would not be happening now and would only be an option if Bryzgalov is bought out. Flyers have had way to much roster turnover recently.

Furthermore, I don't think Flyers have any interest in Ballard. The only way I see them getting another defender that isn't an already proven top-pairing defender is if we're getting a young guy.

As I'm sure it's been stated, Vancouver and Philly are bad trading partners.
From a flyers perspective, this.

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:05 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
*future top 5 goaltender over future elite two-way, 1B forward.
If you think Schneider is going to be a future top 5 goalie...well we disagree.

Schneider doesn't have alot of "future" left anyway, he's getting kind of old.

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:07 PM
  #120
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
If you think Schneider is going to be a future top 5 goalie...well we disagree.

Schneider doesn't have alot of "future" left anyway, he's getting kind of old.
He's waiting to breakout.

Could easily see him being that good soon.

And he has alot of time left.

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:12 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
If the Flyers trade for a goalie they have to pay Bryz $23 million. That is a big obstacle to a deal like this. They're not going to buy him out, then look around for a goalie, the deal would happen first.

And I don't see them buying Bryz out till next summer when the cost would be significantly lower.
You're 100% wrong. It's much better for the Flyers both financially and in terms of cap hit if they buy him out now, since you only have to pay him 2/3 of the remaining money and the payments are spread out over double the years left on his contract.

If the Flyers buyout Bryz this summer, they owe him $23 million paid out evenly over the next 14 years (1.65M per year).

If the Flyers keep Bryz this season, then buy him out next summer, they owe him $8M for that season alone, followed by a buyout of 17.67M spread out over the following 12 years. That's a total of $25.67M, which is 2.67M more than if they buy him out this summer.

Plus there's the whole time value of money thing... which just makes waiting to buy him out more "expensive" compared to buying him out now. With a buyout, Bryz gets 1.65M next season, without it, he gets $8M to provide average to below-average goaltending.

There's no real reason for the Flyers to wait to buyout Bryz.

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:13 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
He's waiting to breakout.

Could easily see him being that good soon.

And he has alot of time left.
Maybe we will just give him a call when you lose him to UFA.

I have no interest in trading a 20 year old cost controlled player at a low point for a 4m per year 26 year old goalie who "might" break out.

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:43 PM
  #123
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Maybe we will just give him a call when you lose him to UFA.

I have no interest in trading a 20 year old cost controlled player at a low point for a 4m per year 26 year old goalie who "might" break out.
Why would we lose him as a UFA?

We are trading an elite goaltender to keep him. Committments have been made, and this contract is a bridge contract.

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:45 PM
  #124
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I would do a CS for Cout 1 for 1 trade.

Would make sense for both teams.

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:54 PM
  #125
achdumeingute
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Why would we lose him as a UFA?

We are trading an elite goaltender to keep him. Committments have been made, and this contract is a bridge contract.
Lose Schneider to UFA.

I'm not trading a 20 yr old forward for a 26 year old goalie.

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