HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Tampa Bay Lightning
Notices

Off-Season 2013

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-15-2013, 09:22 PM
  #326
HoseEmDown
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,610
vCash: 500
Carle hasn't been great but we'd be in a much worse position if we didn't have him. Barberio, Gudas, Aulie aren't ready to be top 4. It's hard to imagine us being worse than we already are but we would be.

HoseEmDown is online now  
Old
04-15-2013, 09:37 PM
  #327
The Fear Boners
Plz stop pucks
 
The Fear Boners's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scrip Club
Country: United States
Posts: 19,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
Carle hasn't been great but we'd be in a much worse position if we didn't have him. Barberio, Gudas, Aulie aren't ready to be top 4. It's hard to imagine us being worse than we already are but we would be.
Nobody has been great this year, and we all know why. Carle under Cooper has been far and away better than Carle under Boucher, though not necessarily through any fault of Boucher.

The Fear Boners is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 09:38 PM
  #328
The Fear Boners
Plz stop pucks
 
The Fear Boners's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scrip Club
Country: United States
Posts: 19,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmchairGoalie View Post
Never claimed to be a GM, thank you very much. Just expressing an opinion. Didn't realize that was frowned upon.

And to clarify, I already knew of his offensive abilities. I fully agree that you don't give 5.5M to someone just to be a crease clearer. I should have clarified in my original post that in addition to his offensive abilities, someone paid that amount should be more sound defensively. But I also said he has shown flashes of great defense, so maybe he is stepping up his defensive abilities. If so, that will be great for us in the long run.

Can't we all just get along.
I'm not mad at you or anything, i'm just saying its a ridiculous allocation of resources for a crease clearer. Really, the whole "toughness mentality" comes not from one or two players, rather from a core of players who you breed that mentality into.

The Fear Boners is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 09:41 PM
  #329
The Fear Boners
Plz stop pucks
 
The Fear Boners's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scrip Club
Country: United States
Posts: 19,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Beat You View Post
You give 5.5 mil to a guy like Matt Carle when you become desperate enough to engage in a bidding war for the "premier" puck moving d-man on the market because you're lacking an offensive presence in the top 4. He is not worth his contract in any way, shape, or form. When you factor in the term, modified NTC, and the current state of the salary cap, this contract could prove to be a burden in the not so distant future.
I would put money on Carle being night and day between this year and next. This season is so ****ing bunk right now, and everyone is investing a ton into it. This year is not an accurate reflection of this team. Next year you'll see a completely different team and a Matt Carle that'll be worth every penny.

The Fear Boners is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 09:48 PM
  #330
MattM92
Registered User
 
MattM92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 3,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
I would put money on Carle being night and day between this year and next. This season is so ****ing bunk right now, and everyone is investing a ton into it. This year is not an accurate reflection of this team. Next year you'll see a completely different team and a Matt Carle that'll be worth every penny.
I hope so but I'm skeptical of that. I think he will be better, but not worth 5.5 per year in a 64M cap year.

MattM92 is offline  
Old
04-15-2013, 11:29 PM
  #331
I Am Beat You
Registered User
 
I Am Beat You's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: London
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
I would put money on Carle being night and day between this year and next. This season is so ****ing bunk right now, and everyone is investing a ton into it. This year is not an accurate reflection of this team. Next year you'll see a completely different team and a Matt Carle that'll be worth every penny.
That's a bold statement.

My issue is that the Matt Carle I've seen this year isn't much different from the Matt Carle I saw with Philly. He's the same soft, inconsistent blueliner he has been for years. In Tampa, Carle hasn't had the luxury of playing with an elite defenseman who can cover up for his flaws on a consistent basis. His offensive touch is certainly a plus, but that signing reeked of desperation.

Sure, we lacked someone who could move the puck and be a regular in the top-4, but we ended up severely overpaying in the FA market. If you're going to shell out that kind of cap hit and term for a fairly one-dimensional player, he'd better be one of the premier guys in the league in at least one area. While Carle's mobility has been called a strength, it isn't top notch (the most overrated aspect of his game, imo), he doesn't possess a great shot, and he isn't on the same level as a player like Dan Boyle when it comes to quarterbacking a PP.

I hope as much as anybody that he plays at a higher level from now on, but I don't see him ever living up to his contract.

I Am Beat You is offline  
Old
04-16-2013, 07:33 AM
  #332
ArmchairGoalie
Registered User
 
ArmchairGoalie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Largo, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
Nobody has been great this year, and we all know why. Carle under Cooper has been far and away better than Carle under Boucher, though not necessarily through any fault of Boucher.
It appears you can say the same thing about Purcell. He seems a lot more motivated under Cooper. Of course, Teddy always has a knack for "turning it on" when he wants to.

ArmchairGoalie is offline  
Old
04-16-2013, 09:01 AM
  #333
BoltSTH
Registered User
 
BoltSTH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Tampa
Country: United States
Posts: 945
vCash: 500
It may be he knows, when paired with Brewer, he can't risk getting caught up ice so plays a lot more tentatively than if he had someone more mobile as a partner. If he had Aulie or a new top 4 partner I think he would look at lot better.

BoltSTH is online now  
Old
04-16-2013, 09:21 AM
  #334
MattM92
Registered User
 
MattM92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 3,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoltSTH View Post
It may be he knows, when paired with Brewer, he can't risk getting caught up ice so plays a lot more tentatively than if he had someone more mobile as a partner. If he had Aulie or a new top 4 partner I think he would look at lot better.
Aulie is not mobile, I see his biggest problem as footspeed. But I agree with your point that Carle needs a more sound partner so he can play his offense instead of having to focus more heavily on defense (which certainly isn't his game).

MattM92 is offline  
Old
04-16-2013, 10:24 AM
  #335
The Fear Boners
Plz stop pucks
 
The Fear Boners's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scrip Club
Country: United States
Posts: 19,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmchairGoalie View Post
It appears you can say the same thing about Purcell. He seems a lot more motivated under Cooper. Of course, Teddy always has a knack for "turning it on" when he wants to.
Totally agreed.

The Fear Boners is offline  
Old
04-16-2013, 07:21 PM
  #336
IdealisticSniper
Registered User
 
IdealisticSniper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,715
vCash: 500
I hope Miller is available at the draft.

IdealisticSniper is offline  
Old
04-16-2013, 07:24 PM
  #337
Follower of Yzlam
Believe the Yzerplan
 
Follower of Yzlam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Richmond, VA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,488
vCash: 1159
Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
I hope Miller is available at the draft.
We're pretty obviously not in the market.

Follower of Yzlam is offline  
Old
04-16-2013, 08:49 PM
  #338
IdealisticSniper
Registered User
 
IdealisticSniper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,715
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders View Post
We're pretty obviously not in the market.
We should be.

IdealisticSniper is offline  
Old
04-16-2013, 09:00 PM
  #339
Vieille Barbe
Radko's Modern Life
 
Vieille Barbe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Hockey Paradise
Posts: 115
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
We should be.
Looks like you're gonna have who you've already got. Could be a surprise off-season move but it looks very unlikely.

Have to wonder - are they quietly planning to go into rebuild mode? Doubt we'll see them completely blow it up, but my gut tells me this summer could prove very interesting in Tampa.

Vieille Barbe is offline  
Old
04-16-2013, 10:32 PM
  #340
Crabby Williams
Registered User
 
Crabby Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,798
vCash: 500
Agree with Still All In on Carle. MUCH better since Cooper took over, and I see it continuing with him.




Also, Mike Lundin.

Crabby Williams is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 08:13 AM
  #341
warlord6
Registered User
 
warlord6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: FLA
Posts: 171
vCash: 500
Sorry to be Mr. Grumpy, but I dont see this team being that much better next year. Do people really think that a full training camp under Cooper will make that much of a difference? Why? What will be done in the off season with our D? Coaching? Do you think we will trade any of the big guns?

Is the mood still "In Yzerman we trust"? Can Yzerman afford another sub-par season next year? If that happens, what happens in TB? How much patience does Vinik have since everything except the team itself (the most important pillar) is operating at maximum efficiency?

warlord6 is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 08:20 AM
  #342
The YzerJesus
Turns Piss Into Wine
 
The YzerJesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: location location
Country: United States
Posts: 4,512
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by warlord6 View Post
Sorry to be Mr. Grumpy, but I dont see this team being that much better next year. Do people really think that a full training camp under Cooper will make that much of a difference? Why? What will be done in the off season with our D? Coaching? Do you think we will trade any of the big guns?

Is the mood still "In Yzerman we trust"? Can Yzerman afford another sub-par season next year? If that happens, what happens in TB? How much patience does Vinik have since everything except the team itself (the most important pillar) is operating at maximum efficiency?
This is a good point. While I do think a full season and full preparation (especially under Cooper) will help this team immensely, I'm not sure how competitive we are going to be unless Yzerman makes some moves. We all thought we would compete this year. We are in the basement. We all thought we would compete last year. Nope.

Bottom line is, if we don't compete next year after Yzerman makes moves to shore up the D, it can no longer be In Yzerman We Trust. While he's made every move necessary to improve this team on paper, it just doesn't show. He's done a good job in my opinion, rebuilding the farm, while attempting to make the big club as competitive as possible. But like I said, what looks good on paper is **** in games.

Hopefully Yzerman can shore up the D. He'll give a little offense up, but I think we can stand to lose some. We're second in the league in scoring. Does that happen to a non-playoff team, ever? It has to be some kind of a record. Furthermore, the 2nd and 3rd best point-getters in the league are on a non-playoff team. Imagine if they both beat Crosby? Or tie? How absolutely ridiculous is that on a team that is closer to the bottom than the playoffs? Yzerman has to sacrifice some of our elite (make no mistake, it is indeed elite) offense to get what we really need. Defense.

EDIT: What I'm trying to say is that this team has been through some real adversity these past two seasons. We've made a lot of changes as well, even to the coaching staff. If Yzerman can't make the moves that will get us into the playoffs next year, I just don't know.

This ****ing team man.


Last edited by The YzerJesus: 04-17-2013 at 08:39 AM.
The YzerJesus is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 09:02 AM
  #343
Vieille Barbe
Radko's Modern Life
 
Vieille Barbe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Hockey Paradise
Posts: 115
vCash: 500
Here I'm reminded of the comment, attributed (I think) to Carlos Ghosn, that there is no such thing as good management with bad results.

So, no, Yzerman and the coaches and management don't get a pass. Which is not the same as saying it's still early in what they have repeatedly told everyone is a long term process. We understand that. But with a team that looks this good on paper, and this bad on the ice, nobody gets a pass. What is really unforgivable is the clear lack of consistent effort, and the too numerous to count mental errors, on many a night.

Clearly the future is with the prospects and the young guys. The ship has sailed on most everyone over 30 on this team. We may be stuck with some of them for contractual reasons, but it's time to start getting beyond the fond memories of glory days. If you're a bottom feeder in the league with this group, you can damn well be a bottom feeder without them.

Vieille Barbe is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 09:58 AM
  #344
Jacko95
Registered User
 
Jacko95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,024
vCash: 500
I don't even think we would give up anything on offense, if we trade one of the top6 (aka hopefully malone), the kids will make up for it. Expect Killorn to be even better next year. Unless we trade 3-4 of the top6/rookies our top9 will be even better. We could easily play 3 scoring lines with all the talent we have and already does to some point. Not many teams can let Malone/Pouliot play 3rd line minutes.

Jacko95 is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 10:14 AM
  #345
MattM92
Registered User
 
MattM92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 3,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacko95 View Post
I don't even think we would give up anything on offense, if we trade one of the top6 (aka hopefully malone), the kids will make up for it. Expect Killorn to be even better next year. Unless we trade 3-4 of the top6/rookies our top9 will be even better. We could easily play 3 scoring lines with all the talent we have and already does to some point. Not many teams can let Malone/Pouliot play 3rd line minutes.
Agreed. We have enough offensive talent in the minors that we can give up some roster talent and not feel it too much. Sure, a prospect won't come in here and light it up, but they were the ones that were trying when they were here. To be honest, I'd rather get rid of the Malones and Brewers for players/picks and let the kids fight for roster spots.

MattM92 is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 10:54 AM
  #346
Jacko95
Registered User
 
Jacko95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,024
vCash: 500
What do you guys think of the Detroit offer on the trading board?

Their first and Brendan Smith for an other teams first (obviously in the top10). I would do it, if we are out of the top6 and they are in the top15. We can still get Gauthier, Ristolainen, Zadorov or Pulock then and would have a NHL ready young guy with at least top4 upside. And with the draft being as deep as this, we can get a superstar at 15 and would have gotten a top4 defender for "free"

Jacko95 is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 11:07 AM
  #347
MattM92
Registered User
 
MattM92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 3,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacko95 View Post
What do you guys think of the Detroit offer on the trading board?

Their first and Brendan Smith for an other teams first (obviously in the top10). I would do it, if we are out of the top6 and they are in the top15. We can still get Gauthier, Ristolainen, Zadorov or Pulock then and would have a NHL ready young guy with at least top4 upside. And with the draft being as deep as this, we can get a superstar at 15 and would have gotten a top4 defender for "free"
That's an intriguing offer. Depends where our pick is and where their pick is

MattM92 is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 11:12 AM
  #348
2 Weekes Notice
Registered User
 
2 Weekes Notice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Non-traditional Land
Posts: 859
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacko95 View Post
What do you guys think of the Detroit offer on the trading board?

Their first and Brendan Smith for an other teams first (obviously in the top10). I would do it, if we are out of the top6 and they are in the top15. We can still get Gauthier, Ristolainen, Zadorov or Pulock then and would have a NHL ready young guy with at least top4 upside. And with the draft being as deep as this, we can get a superstar at 15 and would have gotten a top4 defender for "free"
Value-wise it's an interesting proposition, particularly if we're not in position to grab a top-5 prospect.

That said, I'm a little torn on my opinion of Brendan Smith as a player. I watched him during his career at Wisconsin (I was a season ticket holder at the time) and I thought he was pretty overrated. Really nice puck-mover but he was kind of a defensive liability even at the NCAA level. He may still end up being a solid top-4 offensive D, but he's not on the same level of other recent Wisconsin studs like McDonagh and J. Schultz, even if that's been the expectation. That said, I'd love to have a Badger in TB finally.

2 Weekes Notice is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 01:00 PM
  #349
InjuredChoker
Registered User
 
InjuredChoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: LTIR or golf course
Posts: 16,978
vCash: 500
I think Smith is one of the least likely players to move on DET roster after Z, Dats, Kronner and Howard. Not because he would be sure fire top2 Dman (he's not) but Wings management has been high on him for a while, have brought him up slowly.

Ken Holland hates trades anyway. Hasn't traded a roster player since 2007 trade deadline.

I'd be very, very surprised to see Smith traded away. Especially to a division rival.

InjuredChoker is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 01:24 PM
  #350
MattM92
Registered User
 
MattM92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 3,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
I think Smith is one of the least likely players to move on DET roster after Z, Dats, Kronner and Howard. Not because he would be sure fire top2 Dman (he's not) but Wings management has been high on him for a while, have brought him up slowly.

Ken Holland hates trades anyway. Hasn't traded a roster player since 2007 trade deadline.

I'd be very, very surprised to see Smith traded away. Especially to a division rival.
I don't think we're in their division next year. Tampa, Florida, Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto, Buffalo, Boston? Isn't that it?

MattM92 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:32 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.