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05-06-2013, 12:48 PM
  #551
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Why do we need toughness so much? Yes we had players get pushed around a little last year but bringing in 5 minute a game goons isn't changing anything. Players like Clowe, Clarkson and Morrow are gonna want way too much money and Orr will be scratched half the season. We just need our defenseman to stand up for our forwards, Gudas did a lot of hitting but I didn't see him dropping the mitts much. Crombeen and Labrie may not strike fear in anyone but for our style of play the do enough.

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05-06-2013, 01:09 PM
  #552
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Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post
Great list. I would likely omit Shattenkirk and Josi as they are likely out of our reach if we're not willing to sell the farm. Both players are young and seen as key pieces in the future (Shattenkirk as a top 5 scoring dman and Josi as a top pairing dman).

To further complement your list:

Chicago - Hjalmarsson
New Jersey - Greene
Philadelphia - Grossman
Pittsburgh - Orpik
San Jose - Demers, Braun
Toronto - Franson, Gunnarsson
Washington - Alzner
UFA - Clitsome, Ference, Fistric, Leopold, Scuderi.
I was avoiding putting a bunch of EC teams on there, especially future division rivals (and I doubt Washington gets rid of Alzner... but I would love it).

****, there's a thought. Washington isn't that deep at O... I would personally do Purcell/Connolly+mid round pick for Alzner. I doubt he's on the block, but I love what he brings. Hammer is a good possibility, though, but I was trying to consider team needs on both sides (and Chicago seems pretty stacked at the wings).

Also, I don't like the idea of bringing Orpik. I see him as a slightly more physical Brewer, and that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

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05-06-2013, 01:13 PM
  #553
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Alright, here's another thing. The idea of team toughness.

Players don't bring team toughness. Signing John Scott isn't going to make our team "tougher". It has to be a mentality, and we saw that when Cooper came. Gudas ****ing with Parros, despite the fact that in a fight he is way outclassed... that's a sign of toughness. It's not about winning fights, it's about not backing down from physicality. Our players are too skilled to play a Bruins style game... but the toughness from a skilled team is about not being intimidated, and I think we have that now. As long as everyone sticks up for one another and we don't let physical teams get us off OUR game, we're tough enough. Some teams are built to play that uber-physical style... the Lightning aren't, and that's okay. We just can't be pushed around.

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05-06-2013, 01:18 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders View Post
Alright, here's another thing. The idea of team toughness.

Players don't bring team toughness. Signing John Scott isn't going to make our team "tougher". It has to be a mentality, and we saw that when Cooper came. Gudas ****ing with Parros, despite the fact that in a fight he is way outclassed... that's a sign of toughness. It's not about winning fights, it's about not backing down from physicality. Our players are too skilled to play a Bruins style game... but the toughness from a skilled team is about not being intimidated, and I think we have that now. As long as everyone sticks up for one another and we don't let physical teams get us off OUR game, we're tough enough. Some teams are built to play that uber-physical style... the Lightning aren't, and that's okay. We just can't be pushed around.
It made me sick when one of our guys got pushed around and the other four just skated along. Happened far too often too.

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05-06-2013, 02:33 PM
  #555
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Radko Gudas signed to 3-year extension

BP @BoltProspects
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Again, for those of you wanting a Gudas jersey, he said he's probably changing his number in the fall. Guess: 13 or 33. Dad wore 3.
https://twitter.com/BoltProspects/st...91444097445889

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05-06-2013, 02:47 PM
  #556
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I like 13. If we could only put Gudas's attitude in Herman!

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05-06-2013, 02:57 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
It made me sick when one of our guys got pushed around and the other four just skated along. Happened far too often too.
True, but that **** stopped when Cooper came on.

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05-06-2013, 02:57 PM
  #558
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I like 13. If we could only put Gudas's attitude in Herman!
I think there's a Munsters joke in here somewhere.

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05-06-2013, 05:38 PM
  #559
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Well if the real market for the defenseman we look for is as thin as the HF market,I see dark for our defensive help.

Only real interesting offers we got IMO are:
Demers for something around Purcell (maybe add little pieces on one side or the other)
Fayne + Urbom for Purcell

Other than that I can't recall any proposals that really made me interesting. Eventhough the Gunnarsson proposals are coming up everywhere and he might be interestig, but he is just not good enough IMO.


So after all I decided to look after good prospects, that might be available, so the plan would be signing a guy like Hainsey, ease the highly talented guy in and have him playing big within 2 years (when in my plans both Salo and this player X would be gone).

I looked around a little bit and here is my list of guys that could be interesting for us:
Duncan Siemens (not sure, how well he developed, but if he is still the physical, hard-nosed guy, that is pretty good defensivly, I would have interest)
Jamie Oleksiak, just imagine a pairing of him and Hedman. This would not only be the biggest goalie tandem, but the biggest D pairing as well But I doubt we would have any chance to get him.
Gormley, Rundblad, Stone (not directly because they would be perfect fits, but they all three are most likely available)
Brayden McNabb might be interesting and should be available for lets say Panik
Jared Tinordi is IMO very very promising and I would really like to get him.


After all that's not too much guys and it would be a risk trading for either of them, but otherwise most of the good defensive defender in the NHL started somewhat slow and get better than expected after a few years.
My favorite would be Tinordi. ANd I really think he could be available for the right price.

Do I missing anyody, what do you think about the guys,....

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05-06-2013, 06:22 PM
  #560
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Originally Posted by Jacko95 View Post
Gormley, Rundblad, Stone (not directly because they would be perfect fits, but they all three are most likely available)
Brayden McNabb might be interesting and should be available for lets say Panik
Moving this current discussion from the trade board here: would you guys been receptive to Stone for Panik? Stone is similar to McNabb, except has produced more thus far in his time at the NHL level.

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05-06-2013, 06:29 PM
  #561
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Moving this current discussion from the trade board here: would you guys been receptive to Stone for Panik? Stone is similar to McNabb, except has produced more thus far in his time at the NHL level.
I wouldn't enjoy it but I'd very possibly do it. Which is probably the sign of a fair trade.

There's just so much pointing to a TB/PHX trade somewhere down the line.

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05-06-2013, 07:06 PM
  #562
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Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
Why do we need toughness so much? Yes we had players get pushed around a little last year but bringing in 5 minute a game goons isn't changing anything. Players like Clowe, Clarkson and Morrow are gonna want way too much money and Orr will be scratched half the season. We just need our defenseman to stand up for our forwards, Gudas did a lot of hitting but I didn't see him dropping the mitts much. Crombeen and Labrie may not strike fear in anyone but for our style of play the do enough.
The more tough players you have, the more infectious the idea of team toughness becomes. Mentality is obviously the biggest thing, but personnel matters.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders View Post
Alright, here's another thing. The idea of team toughness.

Players don't bring team toughness. Signing John Scott isn't going to make our team "tougher". It has to be a mentality, and we saw that when Cooper came. Gudas ****ing with Parros, despite the fact that in a fight he is way outclassed... that's a sign of toughness. It's not about winning fights, it's about not backing down from physicality. Our players are too skilled to play a Bruins style game... but the toughness from a skilled team is about not being intimidated, and I think we have that now. As long as everyone sticks up for one another and we don't let physical teams get us off OUR game, we're tough enough. Some teams are built to play that uber-physical style... the Lightning aren't, and that's okay. We just can't be pushed around.
I actually think there is enough toughness within the organization (if we re-sign the likes of Labrie and Angelidis) for this not to be too much of an issue, but there's still only so much you can do without the right group of players. Nobody will be afraid to push us around, regardless of the mentality. That's were specific players matter.

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05-06-2013, 08:29 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by I Am Beat You View Post
The more tough players you have, the more infectious the idea of team toughness becomes. Mentality is obviously the biggest thing, but personnel matters.

I actually think there is enough toughness within the organization (if we re-sign the likes of Labrie and Angelidis) for this not to be too much of an issue, but there's still only so much you can do without the right group of players. Nobody will be afraid to push us around, regardless of the mentality. That's were specific players matter.
The way I see it is that we have 4 players other teams would hate lining up against: Gudas, Labrie, Thompson and Aulie.

Then there is the next group that can play physical but need to be more consistent in it and/or are very effective at eliminating space for others: Lecavalier, Panik, Malone, Crombeen, Brewer, Hedman and Salo. Pyatt eliminates space well and is not really physical at all, but doesn't fit into the last category either.

The final group is our skilled contingent of players that are not expected to throw hits or bring an abundance of toughness: Stamkos, St.Louis, Killorn, Purcell, T.Johnson and Carle (he's supposed to be skilled).

Players who could be on the roster next season but were not included: Palat, Connolly, Tyrell and Pouliot.

IMHO, I think we could use one more player in the first category that teams hate lining up against. If we buy out Malone, I'd hope we can bring one in via free agency that adds that element of consistent toughness to our top 6.

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05-06-2013, 08:51 PM
  #564
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Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post
The way I see it is that we have 4 players other teams would hate lining up against: Gudas, Labrie, Thompson and Aulie.
I disagree. Thompson? Come on. Labrie is a big body that can hit, big deal. Every team has those. Aulie isn't soft but he's not overly imposing.

Quote:
Then there is the next group that can play physical but need to be more consistent in it and/or are very effective at eliminating space for others: Lecavalier, Panik, Malone, Crombeen, Brewer, Hedman and Salo. Pyatt eliminates space well and is not really physical at all, but doesn't fit into the last category either.
Most of those guys aren't even worth listing. Malone is probably gone by next season, and he's the most physical guy there. Hedman, Salo, and Pyatt add virtually nothing to the toughness of this team.

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The final group is our skilled contingent of players that are not expected to throw hits or bring an abundance of toughness: Stamkos, St.Louis, Killorn, Purcell, T.Johnson and Carle (he's supposed to be skilled).
I'll take Killorn's physical game over a few of the guys you mentioned above.

I don't see the point of these tiers you've posted.

Quote:
IMHO, I think we could use one more player in the first category that teams hate lining up against. If we buy out Malone, I'd hope we can bring one in via free agency that adds that element of consistent toughness to our top 6.
A legit scrapper who can play the game would be nice, but there just isn't much room to add that type of player (or any type of player,for that matter) due to the logjam of forwards.

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Old
05-06-2013, 09:04 PM
  #565
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I disagree. Thompson? Come on. Labrie is a big body that can hit, big deal. Every team has those. Aulie isn't soft but he's not overly imposing.
Lol wut? 40 hits in 19 games is pretty good for me and when he drops the gloves, he does well for a middleweight. Labrie is an excellent energy guy who adds a nice element of toughness to our forward group.

Well, Thompson was 3rd on our team in hits and does an excellent job at shutting down the other teams' top forwards, which is why he naturally falls into the category of "players other teams don't like lining up against".

Aulie has the potential to be more physical and he'll do so as he continues to develop and gain more confidence. Unless of course, you have no faith that our young players will improve.

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Most of those guys aren't even worth listing. Malone is probably gone by next season, and he's the most physical guy there. Hedman, Salo, and Pyatt add virtually nothing to the toughness of this team.
Probably gone by next season, does not mean he WILL be gone, which is why he was still listed in a tier. Hedman adds nothing to the toughness of this team? Really? Really?

If you failed to notice (seems like you choose and pick what you respond to, ignoring other parts), I mentioned that some of the players in the 2nd tier are effective at eliminating space and plugging gaps (i.e. Pyatt & Salo).

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I'll take Killorn's physical game over a few of the guys you mentioned above.
I love Killer, but you can't say you'll take his physical game and claim Hedman has no physicality/toughness.

Quote:
I don't see the point of these tiers you've posted.

A legit scrapper who can play the game would be nice, but there just isn't much room to add that type of player (or any type of player,for that matter) due to the logjam of forwards.
The point was to highlight that we could use more players in the first tier that other teams hate lining up against...

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05-06-2013, 09:24 PM
  #566
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Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post
Lol wut? 40 hits in 19 games is pretty good for me and when he drops the gloves, he does well for a middleweight. Labrie is an excellent energy guy who adds a nice element of toughness to our forward group.

Well, Thompson was 3rd on our team in hits and does an excellent job at shutting down the other teams' top forwards, which is why he naturally falls into the category of "players other teams don't like lining up against".

Aulie has the potential to be more physical and he'll do so as he continues to develop and gain more confidence. Unless of course, you have no faith that our young players will improve.



Probably gone by next season, does not mean he WILL be gone, which is why he was still listed in a tier. Hedman adds nothing to the toughness of this team? Really? Really?

If you failed to notice (seems like you choose and pick what you respond to, ignoring other parts), I mentioned that some of the players in the 2nd tier are effective at eliminating space and plugging gaps (i.e. Pyatt & Salo).



I love Killer, but you can't say you'll take his physical game and claim Hedman has no physicality/toughness.



The point was to highlight that we could use more players in the first tier that other teams hate lining up against...
Come on. No one on any other team dreads going against anybody on this team right now due to physical punishment. You could make a case for Gudas. That guy hits like a truck. Hits in general, in my opinion are a chinsey stat. Does a hit mean finishing a small check on a guy along the boards? Everyone does that. Too many teams calculate hits differently. No one on any team is afraid of Nate Thompson or PC Labrie, I can just about guarantee you. Hits need to be noticeable, in my opinion, for a player to be well known for it. Gudas. Kronwall. Etc.

That being said, no, Hedman does not bring physicality to this team every game. He seems to only turn that on when he wants to. I'm eager to see if the constantly poke checking, stick sweeping Hedman will evolve into the easily-shoving-people-off-the-puck, hitting Hedmonster that we have seen on occasion.

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05-06-2013, 09:29 PM
  #567
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Hedman is not a physical defenseman and adds virtually nothing to our team toughness. The most I've ever seen him do is push a guy away or facewash someone with his gloves still on. He is not physical enough to warrant being in the 'maybe' category.

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05-06-2013, 09:31 PM
  #568
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Come on. No one on any other team dreads going against anybody on this team right now due to physical punishment. You could make a case for Gudas. That guy hits like a truck. Hits in general, in my opinion are a chinsey stat. Does a hit mean finishing a small check on a guy along the boards? Everyone does that. Too many teams calculate hits differently. No one on any team is afraid of Nate Thompson or PC Labrie, I can just about guarantee you. Hits need to be noticeable, in my opinion, for a player to be well known for it. Gudas. Kronwall. Etc.

That being said, no, Hedman does not bring physicality to this team every game. He seems to only turn that on when he wants to. I'm eager to see if the constantly poke checking, stick sweeping Hedman will evolve into the easily-shoving-people-off-the-puck, hitting Hedmonster that we have seen on occasion.
Which is why I put him on the inconsistent physical tier. We've seen him throw some sweet checks and get aggressive with other players. To say he has 0 physicality/toughness is nonsense.

Also, I disagree with you on Labrie's hits not being noticeable. He puts guys on their ass fairly frequently. In the case of Thompson, there's more to big hits and fighting that gets incorporated into "difficult to play against".

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05-06-2013, 09:33 PM
  #569
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Hedman is not a physical defenseman and adds virtually nothing to our team toughness. The most I've ever seen him do is push a guy away or facewash someone with his gloves still on. He is not physical enough to warrant being in the 'maybe' category.
So you watched about ten games this year?

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05-06-2013, 09:35 PM
  #570
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So you watched about ten games this year?
I hope it wasn't the first 10 games of the season or else his assessment is even farther off

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05-06-2013, 09:50 PM
  #571
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So you watched about ten games this year?
No, I watched 48 this year. I also watched other teams play and saw how physical defenseman play and Hedman is not one of them. Don't get me wrong, I think he is very good defenseman and has good gap control and stick skills and all of that, but to say he is physical makes YOU sound like you watched about 10 games this year.

If we go by the argument "Hedman sometimes rubs a guy out against the boards, so he is a physical defenseman" then I counter with the argument "Vinny fights sometimes, so he is an enforcer".

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05-06-2013, 09:54 PM
  #572
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No, I watched 48 this year. I also watched other teams play and saw how physical defenseman play and Hedman is not one of them. Don't get me wrong, I think he is very good defenseman and has good gap control and stick skills and all of that, but to say he is physical makes YOU sound like you watched about 10 games this year.

If we go by the argument "Hedman sometimes rubs a guy out against the boards, so he is a physical defenseman" then I counter with the argument "Vinny fights sometimes, so he is an enforcer".
Well, it's a good thing no one said Hedman was a physical defenseman then. Hence, he was placed in the inconsistent physicality category. To say he has no physicality or toughness is still a joke, you still haven't saved face in anyway.

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05-06-2013, 09:54 PM
  #573
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I don't really thing at this point in time there is anyone at all on our team that inspires any kind of fear or dread in other teams.

But let's see what happens under Coop and maybe a trade or two over the summer. I expect to see other teams cowering in fear when October arrives.

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05-06-2013, 09:55 PM
  #574
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Brewer Needs to go, i think we could use that salary space on someone much more effective

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05-06-2013, 10:00 PM
  #575
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Originally Posted by MattM92 View Post
No, I watched 48 this year. I also watched other teams play and saw how physical defenseman play and Hedman is not one of them. Don't get me wrong, I think he is very good defenseman and has good gap control and stick skills and all of that, but to say he is physical makes YOU sound like you watched about 10 games this year.

If we go by the argument "Hedman sometimes rubs a guy out against the boards, so he is a physical defenseman" then I counter with the argument "Vinny fights sometimes, so he is an enforcer".
I really wish I knew what some of you expect out of a defender because its way different from the rest of the world. You know why so many people wanted Pronger? Because he was the only one of his type. Team toughness is a mentality, not a personnel issue.

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