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Old
05-06-2013, 11:50 PM
  #601
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With the Lightning yes, but don't forget about Aulie's time in the Leafs organization. He has never been a dominating physical presence, and while there's still time, I'm not sure he ever will be. Having a tough team and Gudas on his side could help that though.
I actually lived in Toronto and only recently moved down to the States so I got plenty of first hand views on Aulie's physicality/toughness with the Leafs. It was more prevalent with them as truculence and a no nonsense attitude were encouraged in the Toronto environment. They pride themselves on being difficult to play against and Aulie lost some of that mean streak when he joined Tampa.

Aulie also never really received decent minutes under Wilson and was generally kept to the 3rd pairing in his time with Toronto. He was great in his first 40 game stint in 2010-11 but regressed significantly in 2011-12, and he was ultimately traded as a result.

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05-07-2013, 12:20 AM
  #602
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I actually lived in Toronto and only recently moved down to the States so I got plenty of first hand views on Aulie's physicality/toughness with the Leafs. It was more prevalent with them as truculence and a no nonsense attitude were encouraged in the Toronto environment. They pride themselves on being difficult to play against and Aulie lost some of that mean streak when he joined Tampa.

Aulie also never really received decent minutes under Wilson and was generally kept to the 3rd pairing in his time with Toronto. He was great in his first 40 game stint in 2010-11 but regressed significantly in 2011-12, and he was ultimately traded as a result.
I remember him playing with Phaneuf for some time, people were really high on him then. I honestly don't see much difference in Aulie's physical game now than when he was with Toronto, so I guess I'll have to disagree with you there. Obviously it's easier to play tough when you're on a tough team, but he has never been punishing. He has shown glimpses of it though, and he's still nowhere near his prime, so I hope you're right about his physical game.

Speaking of Toronto, they're a much more truculent group now under Carlyle. They're a perfect example of how personnel affects team toughness, with the "big 3" of Orr, McLaren, and Fraser.

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05-07-2013, 12:51 AM
  #603
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Those comments from Cooper were spot on and quite frankly embarrassing. If we run out the potential lineup that is being tossed around here next year we are going to get abused.

All you have to do is take a look at these playoff games. All these teams would beat the sh•t out of us.

And I don't understand all the talk about Hedman...he's the least of our concerns. He's one of the only ones that does his job exceptionally well.

We need players in here that can whoop some ass as well as play the game.

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05-07-2013, 01:21 AM
  #604
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And I don't understand all the talk about Hedman...
Off season. Have to find something to talk about.

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05-07-2013, 01:39 AM
  #605
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Who's on your wishlist?
Lots of players, but unfortunately none of them would seem to be realistic acquisitions. I'll mention a few anyway.

Ryane Clowe would be an ideal player to have around such a young team, and he brings a rare combination of toughness and skill to the top six. The inevitable bidding war for his services will probably get crazy though, and we have a ton of forward options as is.

Patrick Bordeleau is arguably the league's HW champ, and he plays the game surprisingly well considering his role. Again, there will be plenty of competition for the 4th line due to the logjam of forwards, and my guess is he'll re-sign with the Avs.

If we go the trade route, Deryk Engelland may be available. The Pens have a ton of d-men and that should make him expendable, but he is their toughest player so they may not be keen on shopping him. He has established himself as a legit heavyweight and an NHL regular who can play both sides on defense. Like the forward situation though, there's not going to be much room.

So yeah, those won't happen, but I can dream anyway. How about your wishlist?

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05-07-2013, 02:08 AM
  #606
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Ference and Clitsome could work well here, but I expect them to be re-signed or ask for a high price. I'd like to take a look at Mark Fistric.

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05-07-2013, 02:10 AM
  #607
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Lots of muttering about Kevin Bieksa potentially hitting the trade market. There's a fella that would become one of our tough guys, and would fill a hole at top-4 right-handed defenseman as well. I could see him and Carle being a very solid 2-way second pair.

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05-07-2013, 02:13 AM
  #608
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Also, seeing how we have no picks in the third and fourth round, I'd be interested in trading Malone for a 3rd or 4th pick. We picked up Tanner Richard and Cedric Paquette in the 3rd and fourth rounds in the previous draft and both prospects are looking good so far. Would Malone and a 7th return a 3rd?

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05-07-2013, 02:24 AM
  #609
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Also, seeing how we have no picks in the third and fourth round, I'd be interested in trading Malone for a 3rd or 4th pick. We picked up Tanner Richard and Cedric Paquette in the 3rd and fourth rounds in the previous draft and both prospects are looking good so far. Would Malone and a 7th return a 3rd?
We got a 2nd for Kubina, I think we could get a 3rd for Malone pretty easily.

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05-07-2013, 02:35 AM
  #610
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Only though guy I see available is Cal CLutterbuck.

He is a hitting machine, but his offensive numbers have gone down a bit, but I think he could/ will get better in a Lightning suiter with all the offense around him.
Minnesota fans said, he kind of stopped playing and only hitted the last year, but he is talented enough to play good hockey.
So if we could get him, I think he would bounce back under Cooper.

They could use some more offense, so I think they might be doing a RFA rights swap of Clutterbuck and Pouliot.

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Moving this current discussion from the trade board here: would you guys been receptive to Stone for Panik? Stone is similar to McNabb, except has produced more thus far in his time at the NHL level.
I would do it, because it would help us, but it would really be though to see Panik go out of the org.

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05-07-2013, 02:41 AM
  #611
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Originally Posted by I Am Beat You View Post
Lots of players, but unfortunately none of them would seem to be realistic acquisitions. I'll mention a few anyway.

Ryane Clowe would be an ideal player to have around such a young team, and he brings a rare combination of toughness and skill to the top six. The inevitable bidding war for his services will probably get crazy though, and we have a ton of forward options as is.

Patrick Bordeleau is arguably the league's HW champ, and he plays the game surprisingly well considering his role. Again, there will be plenty of competition for the 4th line due to the logjam of forwards, and my guess is he'll re-sign with the Avs.

If we go the trade route, Deryk Engelland may be available. The Pens have a ton of d-men and that should make him expendable, but he is their toughest player so they may not be keen on shopping him. He has established himself as a legit heavyweight and an NHL regular who can play both sides on defense. Like the forward situation though, there's not going to be much room.

So yeah, those won't happen, but I can dream anyway. How about your wishlist?
As for player toughness, Bordeleau is on my list as well. Clowe is another one. But as has been mentioned, team mentality is the main problem.

And then there's the whole bottom-6-C-dilemma. Personally, I'd like a more experienced and gritty type of player for the 3C job (think someone like Moore was for us and maybe even grittier / nastier - OR: *pipe dream alert* Filppula). On the other hand I want Johnson on the team. But where does he fit? I'm pretty certain Yzerman thinks Pyatt is sufficient on the 3rd line. And I like him, don't get me wrong, but if when Vinny goes down with an injury again he isn't really the guy I'd want on our 2nd line.

Thompson is our 4C and he can play the wing. So even with a scenario like below where does Johnson fit? Except maybe as a Vinny replacement. But the kid needs to play.
1C: Stamkos
2C: Lecavalier
3C: new guy (I wish)
4C: Pyatt/Thompson (switching C/W duties)

And if we're talking totally unrealistic scenarios: Let's lure Matt Martin over here!

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05-07-2013, 09:35 AM
  #612
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Originally Posted by I Am Beat You View Post
I remember him playing with Phaneuf for some time, people were really high on him then. I honestly don't see much difference in Aulie's physical game now than when he was with Toronto, so I guess I'll have to disagree with you there. Obviously it's easier to play tough when you're on a tough team, but he has never been punishing. He has shown glimpses of it though, and he's still nowhere near his prime, so I hope you're right about his physical game.

Speaking of Toronto, they're a much more truculent group now under Carlyle. They're a perfect example of how personnel affects team toughness, with the "big 3" of Orr, McLaren, and Fraser.
You're correct that Aulie is not an overly physical presence who looks to hit someone every shift, but he's certainly a physical defenseman. He was more aggressive in his time in Toronto than he is here, as he tends to sit back a bit more and only goes for a hit a couple times a game now. Still, I stand by my point that he just needs more playing time and confidence to unleash the beast within. There's a reason why he was affectionately known as Keith Maulie and Mohammed Aulie in Toronto.

The whole Leafs team has bought into Carlyle's collective, hard forechecking, intense philosophy. It's fairly similar to what Cooper is trying to instil, though Carlyle's system relies less on puck possession and skill and more on speed, finishing your checks and high pressure. Imo, Cooper's system combines that of Babcock's (emphasis on puck possession) and Carlyle's (team toughness and speed).

Also, while Phaneuf, Komarov, Franson and Kulemin are not heavyweights like the 3 you mentioned each one has been a physical presence this year racking up over 120+ hits in 48 games.


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05-07-2013, 09:40 AM
  #613
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Only though guy I see available is Cal CLutterbuck.

He is a hitting machine, but his offensive numbers have gone down a bit, but I think he could/ will get better in a Lightning suiter with all the offense around him.
Minnesota fans said, he kind of stopped playing and only hitted the last year, but he is talented enough to play good hockey.
So if we could get him, I think he would bounce back under Cooper.

They could use some more offense, so I think they might be doing a RFA rights swap of Clutterbuck and Pouliot.

I would do it, because it would help us, but it would really be though to see Panik go out of the org.
Clutterbuck is one of the best hitters around. When you watch him play, he actually explodes through his hits, opposed to letting up a bit at the end. He's a combination of a mass hitter and an effective one. Clutterbuck's definitely a tough player in that he never backs down and can play through anything, but not sure if he falls under the toughness category others are looking for.

Still, I would trade for a player like Clutterbuck in a heartbeat, not sure if Minny would though. They already had Pouliot btw and he never thrived there, doubt they'd be going back to drink from that well.

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05-07-2013, 09:53 AM
  #614
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As for player toughness, Bordeleau is on my list as well. Clowe is another one. But as has been mentioned, team mentality is the main problem.

And then there's the whole bottom-6-C-dilemma. Personally, I'd like a more experienced and gritty type of player for the 3C job (think someone like Moore was for us and maybe even grittier / nastier - OR: *pipe dream alert* Filppula). On the other hand I want Johnson on the team. But where does he fit? I'm pretty certain Yzerman thinks Pyatt is sufficient on the 3rd line. And I like him, don't get me wrong, but if when Vinny goes down with an injury again he isn't really the guy I'd want on our 2nd line.

Thompson is our 4C and he can play the wing. So even with a scenario like below where does Johnson fit? Except maybe as a Vinny replacement. But the kid needs to play.
1C: Stamkos
2C: Lecavalier
3C: new guy (I wish)
4C: Pyatt/Thompson (switching C/W duties)

And if we're talking totally unrealistic scenarios: Let's lure Matt Martin over here!
I honestly think that TJ will slot in at either the 2C or 3C, with Vinny potentially slotting down. As you said, TJ needs to be playing with the big boys next year and his speed, vision, quick release, two-way play and face-off ability are invaluable. He's a player who's thrived under Cooper so no reason to believe that won't continue.

I'm more concerned about our wingers in the top 6 and the lack of physical play there. Labrie is our most physical winger, with Crombeen next...that's the biggest problem right now. Panik finishes his checks and is capable of knocking people on their ass and I expect that to occur more frequently next year, while we can hope that Malone's physicality will improve under Cooper.

If Malone is bought out or traded, I could see us investing in some toughness through UFA or trade. I would prefer Clowe over a 4th liner like Bordeleau (if the price is right), purely because Clowe could play quality minutes on the top 6. Creating a better team toughness mentality will certainly help, but I still think we're lacking 1 or 2 more guys to lead by example with Gudas, Labrie and Aulie etc.

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05-07-2013, 10:05 AM
  #615
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I didn't know if I should put this in the draft thread or here.... so if it isn't at the right place, someone will probably move it.

So here goes. Would Yzerman, or this fanbase, be in favour of moving that 3rd overall pick for Adam Larsson? Picks or prospects might have to be added here and there but the main pieces would be the 3rd overall pick and Larsson.

I think Tampa would benefit greatly from landing a stud d-men over a stud forward but I might be wrong. Would something like this make any sense for your club?

Thanks

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05-07-2013, 10:20 AM
  #616
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I didn't know if I should put this in the draft thread or here.... so if it isn't at the right place, someone will probably move it.

So here goes. Would Yzerman, or this fanbase, be in favour of moving that 3rd overall pick for Adam Larsson? Picks or prospects might have to be added here and there but the main pieces would be the 3rd overall pick and Larsson.

I think Tampa would benefit greatly from landing a stud d-men over a stud forward but I might be wrong. Would something like this make any sense for your club?

Thanks
Not opposed to making this deal in anyway. Larsson is basically the next Hedman with less size but more physicality and we could really benefit from that. What I'm wondering though is why some Devils fans are so quick to send Larsson packing. IMO, he has continued to improve each year and the only thing holding him back is a slow development in his offensive game.

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05-07-2013, 10:42 AM
  #617
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Not opposed to making this deal in anyway. Larsson is basically the next Hedman with less size but more physicality and we could really benefit from that. What I'm wondering though is why some Devils fans are so quick to send Larsson packing. IMO, he has continued to improve each year and the only thing holding him back is a slow development in his offensive game.
I love Larsson, don't get me wrong, I think he'll turn out to be a solid top pairing d-man for years to come but our organisation has a black hole in terms of forward prospects and landing someone like Jonathan Drouin at #3 and someone like Monahan, Lindholm, Domi, Shinkaruk or Nichushkin at #9 would set us up real nice for the future.

We have a log jam on our current blueline for next year, with two NHL ready prospects that are looking to make some noise at the next level in Éric Gélinas and Alex Urbom. We also have John Merrill who's about a year away from cracking the team and his upside is one of a top pairing d-men as well. Our pipeline also includes Severson, Scarlett and Helgeson, so we are pretty set when talking about our blueline.

On offense, that's a entire different story. We have Matteau and Boucher and that's about it. Certain prospects we drafted a couple of years ago aren't making the impact we were hoping for when talking about Tedenby and Josefson with Henrique being our only young stud.

I just think it's a deal that would benefit both sides since we are in desperate need of goals and Tampa is most probably looking to add a stud d-men.

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05-07-2013, 10:48 AM
  #618
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I love Larsson, don't get me wrong, I think he'll turn out to be a solid top pairing d-man for years to come but our organisation has a black hole in terms of forward prospects and landing someone like Jonathan Drouin at #3 and someone like Monahan, Lindholm, Domi, Shinkaruk or Nichushkin at #9 would set us up real nice for the future.

We have a log jam on our current blueline for next year, with two NHL ready prospects that are looking to make some noise at the next level in Éric Gélinas and Alex Urbom. We also have John Merrill who's about a year away from cracking the team and his upside is one of a top pairing d-men as well. Our pipeline also includes Severson, Scarlett and Helgeson, so we are pretty set when talking about our blueline.

On offense, that's a entire different story. We have Matteau and Boucher and that's about it. Certain prospects we drafted a couple of years ago aren't making the impact we were hoping for when talking about Tedenby and Josefson with Henrique being our only young stud.

I just think it's a deal that would benefit both sides since we are in desperate need of goals and Tampa is most probably looking to add a stud d-men.
All understood, but I think NJ will REALLY regret giving up on Larsson, in the same way Tampa would have regretted giving up on Hedman. Defensemen generally take longer than forwards to develop (common knowledge haha, not trying to educate you) and Larsson has already played 102 games as a 20 year old. I think if NJ is patient, he'll be a beast soon enough, in the same way Hedman has been for us.

Still, if you're offering Larsson plus for the 3rd overall pick it'd be foolish to not consider it, especially if Hedman is the measuring stick for Larsson's future development. Also, we could really benefit from drafting Drouin at 3 too as our eventual Marty replacement, so I'm somewhat torn.

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05-07-2013, 11:05 AM
  #619
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All understood, but I think NJ will REALLY regret giving up on Larsson, in the same way Tampa would have regretted giving up on Hedman. Defensemen generally take longer than forwards to develop (common knowledge haha, not trying to educate you) and Larsson has already played 102 games as a 20 year old. I think if NJ is patient, he'll be a beast soon enough, in the same way Hedman has been for us.

Still, if you're offering Larsson plus for the 3rd overall pick it'd be foolish to not consider it, especially if Hedman is the measuring stick for Larsson's future development. Also, we could really benefit from drafting Drouin at 3 too as our eventual Marty replacement, so I'm somewhat torn.
If a deal were to go down, it would be something like 3rd and 64th overall for Larsson and a mid level pick/prospect.

Like you said, we are giving up a 20 year old with already 100 games of NHL experience under his belt for a question mark that has major upside to his game. I'm not saying Drouin will bust, or else I wouldn't of proposed such a deal , but when you deal something proven for a unknown, the party giving away the proven commodity usually get's a little something on the side to sweeten the deal.

Just saying

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05-07-2013, 11:13 AM
  #620
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If a deal were to go down, it would be something like 3rd and 64th overall for Larsson and a mid level pick/prospect.

Like you said, we are giving up a 20 year old with already 100 games of NHL experience under his belt for a question mark that has major upside to his game. I'm not saying Drouin will bust, or else I wouldn't of proposed such a deal , but when you deal something proven for a unknown, the party giving away the proven commodity usually get's a little something on the side to sweeten the deal.

Just saying
It gets a little tricky when you consider that the 3rd overall could be an elite talent. Don't get me wrong, Larsson is a very, very good prospect, but much like Hedman, I'm not sure if he'll end up as an elite player. If Larsson falls short of being elite, he'll still be pretty damn close, which is good enough from my perspective.

It's just a big risk to give up what could eventually be the best player in the deal, but you are right that an established NHL regular defenseman at the age of 20 would likely command us to give up more. You'll likely need to get others' opinions around these parts for a more accurate response to your trade, since I'm completely infatuated with the idea of Stamkos & Drouin playing together for the next 15-20 years.

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05-07-2013, 11:32 AM
  #621
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All understood, but I think NJ will REALLY regret giving up on Larsson, in the same way Tampa would have regretted giving up on Hedman. Defensemen generally take longer than forwards to develop (common knowledge haha, not trying to educate you) and Larsson has already played 102 games as a 20 year old. I think if NJ is patient, he'll be a beast soon enough, in the same way Hedman has been for us.

Still, if you're offering Larsson plus for the 3rd overall pick it'd be foolish to not consider it, especially if Hedman is the measuring stick for Larsson's future development. Also, we could really benefit from drafting Drouin at 3 too as our eventual Marty replacement, so I'm somewhat torn.
I doubt this + must be big. Larsson would be as perfect as it gets, he is a righty, he is young, he will be a top pairing guy and just doesn't get the chance to play as much as he could in NJ. He has good size and should only get more physical in the future.

They can't offer us any prospects, as we wouldn't have interest in any of them, other than their D guys and they will want to keep them when they trade Larsson.

I would have interest in Larsson + 2nd 2013 for our 3rd overall. Maybe add Janus, because their 2nd rounder will be quit high.

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05-07-2013, 11:33 AM
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I doubt this + must be big. Larsson would be as perfect as it gets, he is a righty, he is young, he will be a top pairing guy and just doesn't get the chance to play as much as he could in NJ. He has good size and should only get more physical in the future.

They can't offer us any prospects, as we wouldn't have interest in any of them, other than their D guys and they will want to keep them when they trade Larsson.

I would have interest in Larsson + 2nd 2013 for our 3rd overall. Maybe add another pick from them and give them Janus as well. But that would be a big maybe.
I would take that deal in a heartbeat. His offer is our 3rd and 64th overall for Larsson and a mid-level pick though, which I'm less inclined to do.

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05-07-2013, 11:34 AM
  #623
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Personally, I'd rather keep the 3rd, but that's just me. It really is like a 1st overall in any other draft. We already have a Hedman-esque player in Hedman.

Yeah, we do need defense. It's no secret. I would just much rather give up Teddy or Malone or others for it, not an elite talent like Drouin. Marty needs a replacement, and this draft is the perfect opportunity to find one. One does not easily replace Martin St. Louis. We get extremely lucky with the draft this year.

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05-07-2013, 11:38 AM
  #624
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Personally, I'd rather keep the 3rd, but that's just me. It really is like a 1st overall in any other draft. We already have a Hedman-esque player in Hedman.

Yeah, we do need defense. It's no secret. I would just much rather give up Teddy or Malone or others for it, not an elite talent like Drouin. Marty needs a replacement, and this draft is the perfect opportunity to find one. One does not easily replace Martin St. Louis. We get extremely lucky with the draft this year.
This. 100% agreed, no matter what the offer is I think we'll regret trading the 3rd overall pick in a very, very strong draft. So long as we draft Drouin of course...

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05-07-2013, 11:45 AM
  #625
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Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post
I would take that deal in a heartbeat. His offer is our 3rd and 64th overall for Larsson and a mid-level pick though, which I'm less inclined to do.
Sorry after I read his proposal, I decided I was maybe a little off and changed mine so maybe you want to change your opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Klinkhammer View Post
Personally, I'd rather keep the 3rd, but that's just me. It really is like a 1st overall in any other draft. We already have a Hedman-esque player in Hedman.

Yeah, we do need defense. It's no secret. I would just much rather give up Teddy or Malone or others for it, not an elite talent like Drouin. Marty needs a replacement, and this draft is the perfect opportunity to find one. One does not easily replace Martin St. Louis. We get extremely lucky with the draft this year.
You have to give to get and nobody in our org nor anyone we draft will be Adam Larsson within the next 5 years. He would be as perfect as a guy could be for us and we should really start to value played NHL games more. Larsson will be a top pairing defender within the next 1 or 2 years. Drouin will be a hell of a player, but even when MSL retires we will have enough offensive talent to not feel Drouins absence too much.
If we guys are not willing to trade #3 for Adam Larsson + we will never have any offer that might interest us. He would just be perfect for us.

Not saying we must have to accept any offer, but after all it's all about winning a Stanley Cup and I bet with you, Larsson will help us more to win a Cup than Drouin within the next 5 years (VL4 time)

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