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Blues hosting Ducks 7pm: suspended player edition

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Old
03-16-2013, 11:38 PM
  #301
Robb_K
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Originally Posted by OCTA8ON View Post
Or maybe we don't resign McDonald for 4.7 Million Dollars a year. Once he goes, we can get Stewart 4 Million per year instead of the 3 Million we are paying him now, and allow some cash to be spent towards Shatty and Petro.
This is it! We don't trade Stewart. We just don't re-sign McDonald, unless he'll take a big drop to $2.5 million. Stewart helps in several ways. Scoring goals at even strength, PP, shootout, speed on the rush, creating breakaways, cycling the puck, stationing himself in front of the net, fighting/standing up for teammates, forecheck, now adequate on defence.

He's also got more upside than most players at his age because he was a late starter to higher-level youth hockey, and has been learning on-the-fly and going on his natural athletic ability more than learned fundamentals. Once those fundamentals get ingrained and integrated into his game, he'll be much better and much more consistent. That's a more reasonable scenario than his just being selfish and short-sighted, and irrational, and just being lazy and living on past laurels.

Why do fans think he's lazy, and will revert to his last season's style of
play next season, after getting a big new contract. He's very young. Why can't people imagine that he's not a fool, and he is intelligent enough to see what his hard work from last off-season has brought him and to want to continue to reap the benefits of that on a winning team, with himself helping the team to succeed. Why is it hard to believe that he'll have learned his lesson.

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03-16-2013, 11:39 PM
  #302
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Ken Hitchcock post game press conference



Chris Stewart post game press conference



Barret Jackman post game press conference



Chris Stewart OT goal 2-1


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Old
03-16-2013, 11:39 PM
  #303
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LMAO. Ok you have a point. I just got a bit chaffed at a few on here calling my views overly simplistic and implying that I was clueless because my view was that the goalies were to blame for the mediocre start.

Had Elliott played tonight and the Blues lost like 6-1, I am sure that there would have been much hand-wringing over every turnover or defensive breakdown. As is, it was a pretty good effort supported by excellent goaltending.

Just got annoyed at being right and called out for it.
I know. I think I got called out a couple of times too. We had a few kinda bad turnovers, but Allen was there to make a save. Even most elite teams out there give up a few potentially bad turnovers, and Elliott let up 2 of those per game as well as 1 soft goal on a routine shot.

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03-16-2013, 11:39 PM
  #304
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Well, Stewart has shown to be a team guy the entire time, this year and last year. Whenever someone throws a questionable hit on one of our players, Stewie is after that guy the next shift so I don't think anyone on the team really cares. Plus, the minor celebration Stewart does is FAR different than what Yakupov did by sliding across the entire sheet of ice.
yeah, he looks good in both zones, obviously he's on fire on offense, he gets a pass. But there's something odd about winning a game in OT, turning away from the player that just created the opportunity and set up your chance to score a goal, to do a ho-hum solo celebration. Just saying.

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03-16-2013, 11:40 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by GoofSlashFoig View Post
Allen is going to have to get some serious recognition for the Calder this year if he keeps this play up.
With Steve Mason so fresh in everyone's mind, I doubt it.

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03-16-2013, 11:42 PM
  #306
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Actually he had some fairly nice plays as well. Some of the bad play defensively probably had something to do with being stuck on a line with D'Agostini. Overall, Perron was fairly effective and created some nice chances.

I am still waiting for people to give me credit for being right about just how much of the Blues struggles were goaltending related.

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03-16-2013, 11:44 PM
  #307
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Am I missing something? Was there not a consensus that poor goaltending was a huge factor in the February/early March struggles?


The whole team was sick for a decent stretch. Goaltending was a big part of the reason, but not the only reason. The team was just as bad as the goaltending.

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Old
03-16-2013, 11:53 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by rrude View Post
yeah, he looks good in both zones, obviously he's on fire on offense, he gets a pass. But there's something odd about winning a game in OT, turning away from the player that just created the opportunity and set up your chance to score a goal, to do a ho-hum solo celebration. Just saying.
I completely understand how you feel. I have felt that about players like Yakupov before. I think I didn't feel that this time because Stewart immediately found Sobotka right after his cele, and I know from watching Stewart that he is a team guy who is not a selfish player by any means.

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03-17-2013, 12:01 AM
  #309
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The whole team was sick for a decent stretch. Goaltending was a big part of the reason, but not the only reason. The team was just as bad as the goaltending.
Look at tonight's game. There were plenty of instances where the Blues tried to get a bit fancy, went east/west more than north/south, failed to get pucks in deep etc. Difference is, Allen made the saves he was supposed to and about 4 that he probably couldn't have been faulted for if they would have went in. Early in the year, every mistake was a goal. Soft goals deflated the team and left them afraid to make even small mistakes or allow innocent shots. The team felt like they needed to score 4 to have a chance to win, and most nights did. Allen saving more than 90% of what they shoot at him and limiting the bad goals is giving the team the confidence to win. The results are looking a lot like the results they got last season, and it is no coincidence that it started the second the Blues started getting goaltending like they got last season.

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03-17-2013, 12:10 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by OCTA8ON View Post
I completely understand how you feel. I have felt that about players like Yakupov before. I think I didn't feel that this time because Stewart immediately found Sobotka right after his cele, and I know from watching Stewart that he is a team guy who is not a selfish player by any means.
yeah, I really think he's been a team leader this year in addition to his solid play. So I am not really calling him out.

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03-17-2013, 12:29 AM
  #311
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I'd like to see Stewart celebrate with his team instead of himself. He pretty consistently turns away from a teammate to do his thing. Minor complaint.
Stewart has been consistently sticking up for his teammates this season. He's one of the only offensemen you see chirping the other team after the whistle and actually showing some conviction.

Having said that, I'd be willing to trade him while his value is high if the price is right. Packaging him for a game-breaking, creative #1 center would be huge for this team. In this situation, I'd say it's equally risky to hold onto him with heightened expectations as it is to trade him for an older, proven point-producer. C'mon, we even traded Shanny at one point.

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03-17-2013, 12:36 AM
  #312
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After tonight, Blues have the third best record in the conference behind Chicago and Anaheim.

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03-17-2013, 12:39 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Gullibull View Post
Stewart has been consistently sticking up for his teammates this season. He's one of the only offensemen you see chirping the other team after the whistle and actually showing some conviction.

Having said that, I'd be willing to trade him while his value is high if the price is right. Packaging him for a game-breaking, creative #1 center would be huge for this team. In this situation, I'd say it's equally risky to hold onto him with heightened expectations as it is to trade him for an older, proven point-producer. C'mon, we even traded Shanny at one point.
Look around the league. Nobody like that is even close to available.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:40 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Gullibull View Post
Stewart has been consistently sticking up for his teammates this season. He's one of the only offensemen you see chirping the other team after the whistle and actually showing some conviction.

Having said that, I'd be willing to trade him while his value is high if the price is right. Packaging him for a game-breaking, creative #1 center would be huge for this team. In this situation, I'd say it's equally risky to hold onto him with heightened expectations as it is to trade him for an older, proven point-producer. C'mon, we even traded Shanny at one point.
The problem is that teams almost never trade that sort of player without a very compelling reason.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:47 AM
  #315
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Honestly, I think the team should wait and see how everything plays out after adding 1 player at a time. Every team has holes, but the key is to fix the major ones because no team is able to be perfect. We will be as good as it gets if we get an awesome LHD to play with Petro. Our remaining weakness would be at our center position, but if you look around the league, Sobotka as a 3rd line center isn't quite as bad as it seems even if our forward structure is formatted a little differently. We can afford to have 1 guy in our top 9 not have offensive flair even though he was responsible for 2 OT winners this year.

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03-17-2013, 12:50 AM
  #316
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Sobotka can be our Talbot.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:54 AM
  #317
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Also, if Sobotka is able to continue this rate, then I don't think we should have someone replace him as our 3rd center. Jarret Stoll in LA was considered one of the best 3rd line centers in the league for the past few years, and he use to put up roughly 40 points per year which is currently the same rate as what Sobotka has been putting up this season. If Stewart improved this year, why can't Sobotka? Why do people just continue to say that Sobotka has been lucky this whole time?

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03-17-2013, 01:02 AM
  #318
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Also, Chris Porter must stay. I don't care if this means Nichol or Reaves sits and Elliott gets to try his hand at being waived. Porter's forecheck and just solid all around play was missing from this team early in the year. When Oshie or McDonald come back, D'Agostini needs to get out of the lineup. We won't even notice his absence. Trust me. When the other returns, Porter has earned his keep.

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03-17-2013, 02:00 AM
  #319
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If Sobotka could keep up his play and just be 3rd line C do we trade McDonald? Because its useless to keep Schwartz in the pressbox and isn't useful on the 4th line.

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03-17-2013, 02:18 AM
  #320
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Originally Posted by GrandPapillon View Post
Look at tonight's game. There were plenty of instances where the Blues tried to get a bit fancy, went east/west more than north/south, failed to get pucks in deep etc. Difference is, Allen made the saves he was supposed to and about 4 that he probably couldn't have been faulted for if they would have went in. Early in the year, every mistake was a goal. Soft goals deflated the team and left them afraid to make even small mistakes or allow innocent shots. The team felt like they needed to score 4 to have a chance to win, and most nights did. Allen saving more than 90% of what they shoot at him and limiting the bad goals is giving the team the confidence to win. The results are looking a lot like the results they got last season, and it is no coincidence that it started the second the Blues started getting goaltending like they got last season.
They aren't mutually exclusive like you seem to want to present them though. This team gives up very few chances when they play sound positionally. Forget the entire team firing on all cylinders (best case). It's not like we weren't in tight games last year because of disjointed play. Goaltending up until Allen came in wasn't good but what can you expect from a goalie whose facing multiple 2-1's, 3-1's, 3-2's, and high percentage chances in the slot?

You seem to want your assertion completely validated and i don't know how it could be. They simply aren't allowing the same types of chances in front of Allen as they did in front of Halak/Elliot. Call it confidence in one particular goaltender (a truly feable excuse imo), but Allen looks great while the Blues have a renewed committment to team defense. One has benefited the other, a symbiotic relationship, exactly what was present for most of the year last season.

You mention being called out for a simplistic viewpoint, but is basically faulting two goaltenders because another is riding a hot streak of play not exactly that? Are you really suggesting that Halak has never played at a high (higher than Allen) level for just as long of a stretch....even longer? There were a bunch of close games that both of our other goalies stole for us last season. What about all those ridiculous goal line stops that Halak made look routine?

If I've misunderstood what you've been getting at, I'm sorry. I don't follow or participate in every thread. But it can't just be goaltending? Yes, its a big part, but to suggest that this team can't win with anyone but Allen (which is a conclusion that could be arrived at from some of these comments I've read) is just crazy. It's like saying Chris Stewart has elevated his game solely because he has more confidence in himself or that he doesn't play with Jaden Schwartz or is getting more PP time. It can be all of those things working in unison. I'm sure you'd agree it's not just because he's reportedly lost 20 pounds either.

Goaltending by Allen has absolutely been huge, I absolutely agree with that. He's just....composed. Pretty cool to see his climb.

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03-17-2013, 02:44 AM
  #321
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I'm not sure what your definition of ridiculous is but if the Blues cannot raise payroll next year, we can NOT afford our current guys (including estimated pay raises) and a $3-$4 mil LHD....that means somebody has to go.
Let us be honest here.

If the Blues are unable to pay their players next year after raises (to say nothing about the additional fees for a new LHD) when they are not that far above the floor then Stillman needs to sell the team. Let some other ownership buy the Blues and move them to a location where they might stand a chance of being able to retain their players.

I love the Blues but if finances are that tight it means the St. Louis market is no longer viable and somewhere new needs to be investigated.

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03-17-2013, 02:45 AM
  #322
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They aren't mutually exclusive like you seem to want to present them though. This team gives up very few chances when they play sound positionally. Forget the entire team firing on all cylinders (best case). It's not like we weren't in tight games last year because of disjointed play. Goaltending up until Allen came in wasn't good but what can you expect from a goalie whose facing multiple 2-1's, 3-1's, 3-2's, and high percentage chances in the slot?

You seem to want your assertion completely validated and i don't know how it could be. They simply aren't allowing the same types of chances in front of Allen as they did in front of Halak/Elliot. Call it confidence in one particular goaltender (a truly feable excuse imo), but Allen looks great while the Blues have a renewed committment to team defense. One has benefited the other, a symbiotic relationship, exactly what was present for most of the year last season.

You mention being called out for a simplistic viewpoint, but is basically faulting two goaltenders because another is riding a hot streak of play not exactly that? Are you really suggesting that Halak has never played at a high (higher than Allen) level for just as long of a stretch....even longer? There were a bunch of close games that both of our other goalies stole for us last season. What about all those ridiculous goal line stops that Halak made look routine?

If I've misunderstood what you've been getting at, I'm sorry. I don't follow or participate in every thread. But it can't just be goaltending? Yes, its a big part, but to suggest that this team can't win with anyone but Allen (which is a conclusion that could be arrived at from some of these comments I've read) is just crazy. It's like saying Chris Stewart has elevated his game solely because he has more confidence in himself or that he doesn't play with Jaden Schwartz or is getting more PP time. It can be all of those things working in unison. I'm sure you'd agree it's not just because he's reportedly lost 20 pounds either.

Goaltending by Allen has absolutely been huge, I absolutely agree with that. He's just....composed. Pretty cool to see his climb.
I am suggesting that the team can't win with a goalie that can't stop more than 90% of the shots he sees. This season, only Allen is doing that.

The game against Phoenix on Thurs. was a total team effort. The Blues limited the quality chances and played great defensively. Honestly, Halak and Elliott didn't get the benefit of too many efforts like that. However, against the Ducks, the Blues gave up several good scoring chances and made several mistakes which Allen came up huge on. The Blues gave up 40 shots against the Sharks, and he stole the game. I see a more confident team in front of Allen, but I don't always see the team playing Hitchcock's system flawlessly in front of him either. The difference, again, is that not every breakdown with Allen in net is resulting in a goal. What further compounds things is with someone like Elliott in net, the team could play a sound 15 minutes, give up 1 or 2 shots on goal, and then have a player squeak one through him from the boards on the blueline. That has to take the wind out of a team.

When the Blues have a goalie playing good hockey, they tend to win a lot of games the last two seasons.

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03-17-2013, 02:59 AM
  #323
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They aren't mutually exclusive like you seem to want to present them though. This team gives up very few chances when they play sound positionally. Forget the entire team firing on all cylinders (best case). It's not like we weren't in tight games last year because of disjointed play. Goaltending up until Allen came in wasn't good but what can you expect from a goalie whose facing multiple 2-1's, 3-1's, 3-2's, and high percentage chances in the slot?

You seem to want your assertion completely validated and i don't know how it could be. They simply aren't allowing the same types of chances in front of Allen as they did in front of Halak/Elliot. Call it confidence in one particular goaltender (a truly feable excuse imo), but Allen looks great while the Blues have a renewed committment to team defense. One has benefited the other, a symbiotic relationship, exactly what was present for most of the year last season.
They actually have hung Allen out to dry several times. That's why his save percentage was so low at first despite everyone's acknowledgment that he visibly played very well.

And the poor goaltending about which people are complaining has not been a lack of saves on odd-man rushes, it's legit soft goals like unscreened wrist shots from the wing. I don't care how many breakaways and 2-on-1's you allow, and the goalie can let all of those in and be forgiven, but when game-deciding goals are routine saves, you can't blame that on the team anymore.

You're right about most of your main points, but I think it's easy to overlook the great chances the Blues have let up on Allen because he's saved more of them. And while bad stats are easily because of team play, the criticism most everyone has is an abundance of crucial, weak goals, not bad stats.

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03-17-2013, 03:02 AM
  #324
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Originally Posted by Multimoodia View Post
Let us be honest here.

If the Blues are unable to pay their players next year after raises (to say nothing about the additional fees for a new LHD) when they are not that far above the floor then Stillman needs to sell the team. Let some other ownership buy the Blues and move them to a location where they might stand a chance of being able to retain their players.

I love the Blues but if finances are that tight it means the St. Louis market is no longer viable and somewhere new needs to be investigated.
Seriously, if you can't afford our current players, what the hell is the point of owning this team? He knew what kind of team he was buying or he wouldn't have bought the team. Stillman believes in the Blues and I think he would be willing to put in the money for this team to be a threat for the cup for many years.

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03-17-2013, 03:02 AM
  #325
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I agree with the sentiment that Perron had one of the worst-effort defensive games of his career tonight. It was painful to watch.
Now, the frustrating thing about that was in the first period he was looking very good in the offensive zone but after he and Berglund did not convert he just seemed to...fade...
Consistency, thy name is still not David Perron. May never be.
Frenchie is still an astoundingly talented devil though.

Allen may be proving me wrong. I thought he needed further seasoning simply because Bishop played so many minutes in Peoria (Allen may have shared duties but Bishop was always the one who was going to be called up first, etc.) and he seemed to be a bit inconsistent. I am now wondering ever-more how much of the issue was actually Peoria rather than his own capabilities.
Regardless, if Allen is still putting up anything close to these numbers at the end of the season I would have a hard time not getting excited over the possibility of running two #1's out there in 2013-2014. I will say that Allen looks more like the type of goaltender who is an actual #1 and not a #1A like Halak.

Best game by Russell yet. I know we cannot expect every game from his to be this effective, but even 80% would make him an extremely valuable 3rd defenseman.

Cole actually looked far better than I thought he would, he managed to seal and force fairly large, talented players to the outside repeatedly. I can only think of a few mistakes he made and at least two of them were a result of him not knowing his partner/playing on the opposite side of the ice he has been used to this season. When he simplifies his game he shows he can be an effective defenseman.

When everyone recovers (if?) Steen needs to stay on the wing. Sobotka is evolving in to a player who can adequately or better play 3rd line center in the Blues system. I suppose this could be an unsustainable pace, but if it is not and this new Sobotka is the new the Blues will have for the future then they need not look for 3rd line centers and instead should only be pursuing 2nd line or better.

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