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Old
03-31-2013, 05:46 PM
  #351
CB Joe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
No doubt owners are the ones that have the final word on organizational philosophies but he called out management.

It does seem the owners generally have a very hands off philosophy when it comes to Avs, letting PL run the show because of the goodwill he build with Stan Kroenke during the championship era.

I don't think the owners are the problem with the Avs. The team probably isn't expected to spend to the cap until they are more ready to contend, but that's not a problem. There hasn't really been many affordable UFAs lately. Parenteau was money well spent and Avs offered Suter/Parise contracts. I think when the time is right, the money will be there.

I think the problem is an antiquated style of management, as evidenced by the O'Reilly fiasco. A complete lack of flexibility almost led to us trading one of the best players Avs developed in the last decade.

Anyway, all this is OT and probably belongs in one of the other threads where we complain about Lacroix/Kroenke, so I'll end there.

I was surprised that LeBrun had heard a lot about O'Brien being available. It does seem like Avs are trying to move a defender at least.
I think ownership put a very tight limit on the cash available to the Avs. As a result they don't make the best decisions.

I think Sacco is being kept on because they don't want to pay for a replacement. I also think he was hired over an experienced coach to save money.

The Avs have been notorious for low balling players. I don't think the cash is that available for the GM. I think that's what led to whole O'Reilly fiasco.

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Old
03-31-2013, 05:53 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
Aren't the Avs still making a profit? No reason for Kroenke to sell if he's making money while not coming close to selling out games.
A sports team is a $100m+ investment. A small profit shouldn't be satisfactory. There are many ways to invest $100m+ that could be significantly more profitable.

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03-31-2013, 06:04 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by CB Joe View Post
I think ownership put a very tight limit on the cash available to the Avs. As a result they don't make the best decisions.

I think Sacco is being kept on because they don't want to pay for a replacement. I also think he was hired over an experienced coach to save money.

The Avs have been notorious for low balling players. I don't think the cash is that available for the GM. I think that's what led to whole O'Reilly fiasco.
If money was the deciding factor why not just not match the offer? I don't think our recent penny pinching is out of necessity. I think it's strategic. Develop from within and when those guys deserve big pay days, you have the cap to pay them.

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03-31-2013, 06:07 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by CB Joe View Post
A sports team is a $100m+ investment. A small profit shouldn't be satisfactory. There are many ways to invest $100m+ that could be significantly more profitable.
Multiple owners have stated you don't buy a hockey team as an investment or to make money.

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03-31-2013, 06:14 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by tucker3434 View Post
If money was the deciding factor why not just not match the offer? I don't think our recent penny pinching is out of necessity. I think it's strategic. Develop from within and when those guys deserve big pay days, you have the cap to pay them.
He's too good of a player not to match.

I think the Avs will have to cut elsewhere to pay for O'Reilly.

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Old
03-31-2013, 06:15 PM
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB Joe View Post
A sports team is a $100m+ investment. A small profit shouldn't be satisfactory. There are many ways to invest $100m+ that could be significantly more profitable.
I don't think you invest in sports teams expecting the same ROI as other investments. There is a vanity element to owning one. That doesn't mean teams are expected to lose money or don't spend money wisely.

I think the O'Reilly thing was more about principle (RFAs accepting bridge deals and Avs refusing to budge from their offers) than money. If Avs were on that tight a budget I would think O'Reilly would be a higher priority than Jones.

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Old
03-31-2013, 07:38 PM
  #357
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Stan Kroenke once said in the pre-cap era that the Avs didn't make money unless they made the Stanley Cup Finals. Things might be different now with the cap and revenue sharing, but really, NHL franchises are not exactly money generators. I think they turn a tidy profit if they work out a good lease in a new arena, but the team has to win and fill the seats.

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Old
03-31-2013, 07:40 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
Multiple owners have stated you don't buy a hockey team as an investment or to make money.
But i don't think it's Kroenke's style to lose money on his teams, especialy not with the Avs.

Here is an interesting article about EPL's Arsenal (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...92Q0DD20130327).

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Old
03-31-2013, 07:47 PM
  #359
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http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/
Just an FYI ^

I've always felt that KSE is about WHEN to spend money. I think there will be a very evident change once the team looks to be in position to be perennial playoff contenders.

Should see more spending on UFAs and Staff starting this summer and amping up more 2014 if Avs show significant improvement.

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Old
03-31-2013, 08:22 PM
  #360
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http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/
Just an FYI ^

I've always felt that KSE is about WHEN to spend money. I think there will be a very evident change once the team looks to be in position to be perennial playoff contenders.

Should see more spending on UFAs and Staff starting this summer and amping up more 2014 if Avs show significant improvement.
I don't have a problem with them going on the cheap so long as it hasn't led them to handcuff the team in other aspects (i.e., sending Barrie down to save $$$, unwilling to pay higher wages for coaches, etc.). What I have a problem with is their blind trust in all things Lacroix because they don't know anything about hockey.

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Old
03-31-2013, 08:29 PM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
I don't have a problem with them going on the cheap so long as it hasn't led them to handcuff the team in other aspects (i.e., sending Barrie down to save $$$, unwilling to pay higher wages for coaches, etc.). What I have a problem with is their blind trust in all things Lacroix because they don't know anything about hockey.
I agree. IMO this team is ready to turn the corner, so if a Good coach is not brought in after this season, it will be a sign to me PL needs to leave.

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03-31-2013, 08:40 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by AslanRH View Post
I agree. IMO this team is ready to turn the corner, so if a Good coach is not brought in after this season, it will be a sign to me PL needs to leave.
How will you know a good coach from a bad coach though?

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Old
03-31-2013, 08:46 PM
  #363
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How will you know a good coach from a bad coach though?
lol. Good point.

Thinking more than just an "in family" hire with no proven record of winning would be a start.

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Old
03-31-2013, 11:10 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Colorado Sports Fan View Post
How will you know a good coach from a bad coach though?
Track record, you can tell a good coach when you see one and know about his track record, be it professional or amateur. The fact that the Avs brought in an atrocious coach with a bad record in the AHL and has had a bad record in the NHL and still keep him shows that either

A) They are incompetent
B) They are scared to fire him for some reason
C) They have a master plan that only Pierre Lacroix knows about and will not reveal until he is on his death bed, by which all of our players may very well be gone/retired
D) They plan on cleaning house come season's end, which includes roster shake-ups

I personally have come to believe it is A, while holding out hope for D, and being terrified that it may be C

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Old
03-31-2013, 11:17 PM
  #365
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As for the topic of trade deadline expectations, here are my predictions for what I think will happen should said players get traded before or on the deadline day

Greg Zanon to Ottawa for a 2013 5th Round Pick

Ryan O'Byrne to the New York Rangers for a 2013 4th Round Pick

Shane O'Brien to Montreal for Yannick Weber

Jean-Sebastien Giguere to Toronto for a 2013 2nd Round Pick

Chuck Kobasew to Carolina for Jussi Jokinen

Wildcard

Paul Stastny and David Jones to Philadelphia for Braydon Coburn and Daniel Briere

Edit: The last trade is something I'd like to see happen because I like Coburn so much, think he's the exact type of defenseman for Johnson lol

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Old
03-31-2013, 11:57 PM
  #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
As for the topic of trade deadline expectations, here are my predictions for what I think will happen should said players get traded before or on the deadline day

Greg Zanon to Ottawa for a 2013 5th Round Pick

Ryan O'Byrne to the New York Rangers for a 2013 4th Round Pick

Shane O'Brien to Montreal for Yannick Weber

Jean-Sebastien Giguere to Toronto for a 2013 2nd Round Pick

Chuck Kobasew to Carolina for Jussi Jokinen

Wildcard

Paul Stastny and David Jones to Philadelphia for Braydon Coburn and Daniel Briere

Edit: The last trade is something I'd like to see happen because I like Coburn so much, think he's the exact type of defenseman for Johnson lol
I predict Stastny to PHX for Yandle...but it won't be confirmed until after the deadline and there will be tons of rumours about what the deal is.

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Old
04-01-2013, 12:01 AM
  #367
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The problem is, this organization really doesn't like to admit that it makes mistakes, or admit anything at all. That's why my fear is that Sherman will not do much of anything at the deadline. I really really hope I'm wrong.

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Old
04-01-2013, 12:03 AM
  #368
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I think it's a pipe dream to move Jones and Zanon.

I'd just be happy if we can get something decent back for our pending UFA's. Can't ask for more than that at this stage.

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Old
04-01-2013, 12:07 AM
  #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
As for the topic of trade deadline expectations, here are my predictions for what I think will happen should said players get traded before or on the deadline day

Greg Zanon to Ottawa for a 2013 5th Round Pick

Ryan O'Byrne to the New York Rangers for a 2013 4th Round Pick

Shane O'Brien to Montreal for Yannick Weber

Jean-Sebastien Giguere to Toronto for a 2013 2nd Round Pick

Chuck Kobasew to Carolina for Jussi Jokinen

Wildcard

Paul Stastny and David Jones to Philadelphia for Braydon Coburn and Daniel Briere

Edit: The last trade is something I'd like to see happen because I like Coburn so much, think he's the exact type of defenseman for Johnson lol
You do know that Jokinen was waived by Carolina right?

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Old
04-01-2013, 12:24 AM
  #370
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You do know that Jokinen was waived by Carolina right?
Doesn't mean he's worthless. Just no team wants to take on all of his contract. A team may still be interested if Carolina takes salary in return.

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Old
04-01-2013, 12:25 AM
  #371
dahrougem2
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You do know that Jokinen was waived by Carolina right?
Yes, was throwing names out there, by no means did I state in my post that it was what I wanted to have happen, it was a quick name that came to my head. Besides, he's been a good point producer before, no reason to suggest he can't get back to being a point producer should a change of scenery occur

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Old
04-01-2013, 12:27 AM
  #372
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Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
I think it's a pipe dream to move Jones and Zanon.

I'd just be happy if we can get something decent back for our pending UFA's. Can't ask for more than that at this stage.
I actually think Greg Zanon is the most likely defenseman to be moved at the deadline simply because teams gearing up for a playoff run see how well he blocks shots, and that likely makes him more valuable. O'Byrne blocks a bunch of shots too but in my opinion he's somehow been worse than Zanon this season defensively, which is shocking because Zanon is horrid.

Moving Jones in that deal was only because I included Briere from Philadelphia's side

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04-01-2013, 12:56 AM
  #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
As for the topic of trade deadline expectations, here are my predictions for what I think will happen should said players get traded before or on the deadline day

Greg Zanon to Ottawa for a 2013 5th round Pick

Ryan O'Byrne to the New York Rangers for a 2013 4th Round Pick

Shane O'Brien to Montreal for Yannick Weber

Jean-Sebastien Giguere to Toronto for a 2013 2nd Round Pick

Chuck Kobasew to Carolina for Jussi Jokinen

Wildcard

Paul Stastny and David Jones to Philadelphia for Braydon Coburn and Daniel Briere

Edit: The last trade is something I'd like to see happen because I like Coburn so much, think he's the exact type of defenseman for Johnson lol
I'll bite.

Greg Zanon to Minnesota for a 2013 5th Round Pick

Ryan O'Byrne to Montreal for Yannick Weber

Shane O'Brien and Cameron Gaunce to Carolina for Jamie McBain

Chuck Kobasew to Boston for 2013 4th round pick

Wildcard

Paul Stastny to Toronto for Bozak and 2013 2nd round pick

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Old
04-01-2013, 01:02 AM
  #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
As for the topic of trade deadline expectations, here are my predictions for what I think will happen should said players get traded before or on the deadline day

Greg Zanon to Ottawa for a 2013 5th Round Pick

Ryan O'Byrne to the New York Rangers for a 2013 4th Round Pick

Shane O'Brien to Montreal for Yannick Weber

Jean-Sebastien Giguere to Toronto for a 2013 2nd Round Pick

Chuck Kobasew to Carolina for Jussi Jokinen

Wildcard

Paul Stastny and David Jones to Philadelphia for Braydon Coburn and Daniel Briere

Edit: The last trade is something I'd like to see happen because I like Coburn so much, think he's the exact type of defenseman for Johnson lol
I know you were just guessing what we might do and it all seems reasonable, but trading Jiggy a couple months before his NMC kicks in would be a real jerk move by Sherman.

Also I think we can get at least a 3rd out of O'Byrne and wouldn't be surprised to see Hejda being moved if the right offer came along.

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Old
04-01-2013, 01:18 AM
  #375
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I'll bite.

Greg Zanon to Minnesota for a 2013 5th Round Pick

Ryan O'Byrne to Montreal for Yannick Weber

Shane O'Brien and Cameron Gaunce to Carolina for Jamie McBain

Chuck Kobasew to Boston for 2013 4th round pick

Wildcard

Paul Stastny to Toronto for Bozak and 2013 2nd round pick
so 3 of 4 players are going back to teams they previously played for? there is zero chance zanon goes back to minny, and O'byrne was detested by mtl fans.

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