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THN: Top Seasons of All-Time (1999)

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Old
03-16-2013, 12:07 PM
  #1
DisgruntledGoat
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THN: Top Seasons of All-Time (1999)

Does anyone remember this special edition The Hockey News released sometime in the early 2000s? It ranked (I think) the top 40 individual seasons in NHL history.

Anyone know if that list is available online somewhere? I lost my copy, and have been looking on the web or some time but can't find it.

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03-16-2013, 12:36 PM
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Big Phil
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I seem to remember it and if I can dig it up I'll create the list. I always looked forward to my Hockey News back then, it was such a great magazine in those days before it went all soft.

From what I remember either Gretzky's 1981-'82 or Orr's 1969-'70 season were considered the greatest.

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03-16-2013, 01:18 PM
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I remember this. CBC unveiled the list during Hockey Night in Canada. #1 was Orr's 1969-70 season. I know # 2 was one of Gretzky's seasons, I'd assume 81-82. The only other thing I really remember about it is that Hasek's 97-98 season was in the top 10 somewhere.

I'm surprised a quick Google search didn't bring up the list. I actually wrote them down when it aired, but I don't know where I put the list.

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03-16-2013, 01:25 PM
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The list was featured in THN's Century Of Hockey magazine/book from 1999/2000.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:54 PM
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DisgruntledGoat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I seem to remember it and if I can dig it up I'll create the list. I always looked forward to my Hockey News back then, it was such a great magazine in those days before it went all soft.

From what I remember either Gretzky's 1981-'82 or Orr's 1969-'70 season were considered the greatest.
Yeah, if you could find it, please do. . . I'm sure it would make for an interesting debate.

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03-17-2013, 01:04 PM
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Don't know if it's appropriate, but if this list ever turns up, I thought it'd be interesting to have something else here for comparison:

2008: ESPN's Top NHL Seasons of All-Time

1. Gretzky '81/82
2. Orr '69/70
3. Lemieux '92/93
4. Parent '73/74
5. Gretzky '84/85
6. Lafleur '76/77 (My sentimental favourite)
7. Lemieux '88/89
8. Howe '51/52
9. Esposito '70/71
10. Richard '44/45

Here they use Gretzky's '81/82 for comparison, but I've found links to others using his 215 pt campaign as the "benchmark".

edit: Found a link to discussion of top offensive seasons, and a user in the comments section (date stamp August, 2011) provided the following list as "THN's Top 10 Seasons of All-Time"

1) Bobby Orr 69-70
2) Wayne Gretzky 81-82
3) Wayne Gretzky 85-85
4) Maurice Richard 44-45
5) Bobby Orr 74-75
6) Wayne Gretzky 83-84
7) Mario Lemieux 88-89
8) Phil Esposito 70-71
9) Mario Lemieux 92-93
10) Paul Coffey 85-86


Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 03-17-2013 at 01:13 PM.
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Old
03-17-2013, 01:09 PM
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popculturereference
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1. Orr 69-70
2. Gretzky 81-82
3. Gretzky 85-86
4. Richard 44-45
5. Orr 74-75
6. Gretzky 83-84
7. Lemieux 88-89
8. Esposito 70-71
9. Lemieux 92-93
10. Coffey 85-86
11. Orr 70-71
12. Hainsworth 28-29
13. Orr 71-72
14. Gretzky 79-80
15. Malone 17-18
16. Bossy 80-81
17. Mikita 66-67
18. Gretzky 84-85
19. Howe 52-53
20. Esposito 68-69
21. Sawchuk 50-51
22. Hull 65-66
23. T. Esposito 69-70
24. Hasek 97-98
25. Parent 73-74
26. Hull 90-91
27. Howe 68-69
28. Selanne 92-93
29. Howe 50-51
30. Bourque 79-80
31. Bossy 77-78
32. Gretzky 82-83
33. Shore 32-33
34. Lemieux 87-88
35. Gretzky 86-87
36. Orr 73-74
37. Gretzky 80-81
38. Cowley 43-44
39. Hasek 93-94
40. Barrasso 83-84

This information was taken from the aforementioned "Century of Hockey" book by The Hockey News. I quickly copied it.

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Old
03-18-2013, 01:03 PM
  #8
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Hainsworth as the best goaltending season and Richard at #4 looks too high imo.

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Old
03-18-2013, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unknown33 View Post
Hainsworth as the best goaltending season and Richard at #4 looks too high imo.
Even within the context of the era (esp. no forward passing), and after all the discussion in the goalie threads, a <1.00 GAA and 22 shutouts while starting every one of your team's games makes for a great season. It is that interesting year, though, where another goalie (Worters) actually walked away with the Hart Trophy, so you're right to suggest that there's a LOT of room for discussion on that one.

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03-18-2013, 05:00 PM
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Hainsworth had a great season in 28-29, but like a previous poster said, there was no forward passing, and guys like Tiny Thompson and Ray Worters were comparable to Hainsworth that year. Dolly Dolson (who?) had a 1.37 GAA that year for the Cougars. He is much too high on the list.

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Old
03-18-2013, 05:14 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popculturereference View Post
1. Orr 69-70
2. Gretzky 81-82
3. Gretzky 85-86
4. Richard 44-45
5. Orr 74-75
6. Gretzky 83-84
7. Lemieux 88-89
8. Esposito 70-71
9. Lemieux 92-93
10. Coffey 85-86
11. Orr 70-71
12. Hainsworth 28-29
13. Orr 71-72
14. Gretzky 79-80
15. Malone 17-18
16. Bossy 80-81
17. Mikita 66-67
18. Gretzky 84-85
19. Howe 52-53
20. Esposito 68-69
21. Sawchuk 50-51
22. Hull 65-66
23. T. Esposito 69-70
24. Hasek 97-98
25. Parent 73-74
26. Hull 90-91
27. Howe 68-69
28. Selanne 92-93
29. Howe 50-51
30. Bourque 79-80
31. Bossy 77-78
32. Gretzky 82-83
33. Shore 32-33
34. Lemieux 87-88
35. Gretzky 86-87
36. Orr 73-74
37. Gretzky 80-81
38. Cowley 43-44
39. Hasek 93-94
40. Barrasso 83-84

This information was taken from the aforementioned "Century of Hockey" book by The Hockey News. I quickly copied it.
Wait? Where's Federov?

Didn't I get flamed and laughed at by many on here for saying Selanne's season was better than Fedorov's 95 season????

Well, low and behold

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Old
03-18-2013, 05:32 PM
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Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
Wait? Where's Federov?

Didn't I get flamed and laughed at by many on here for saying Selanne's season was better than Fedorov's 95 season????

Well, low and behold
If I were to guess, I'd say you were flamed for referring to Fedorov's '95 season when '93/94 was, in fact, his "big season" - like you did here.

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03-18-2013, 05:37 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
Wait? Where's Federov?

Didn't I get flamed and laughed at by many on here for saying Selanne's season was better than Fedorov's 95 season????

Well, low and behold
Frankly, if we're talking about 92-93 alone, it's a joke that they listed Selanne over Lafontaine and Gilmour.

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03-18-2013, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
If I were to guess, I'd say you were flamed for referring to Fedorov's '95 season when '93/94 was, in fact, his "big season" - like you did here.
It started out as me saying I can see an argument that Selanne's rookie season was better than Fedorov's Hart/Selke season. I got laughed at, as far as dates, you very well know what I mean. I have that year stuck in my head, but please continue trolling me with it.

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03-18-2013, 05:45 PM
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Frankly, if we're talking about 92-93 alone, it's a joke that they listed Selanne over Lafontaine and Gilmour.
Why?

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03-18-2013, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
Why?
Hart voting for 1992-93:

HART: Mario Lemieux 248 (49-1-0); Doug Gilmour 99 (0-29-12); Pat LaFontaine 52 (1-12-11); Adam Oates 28 (0-6-10); Pierre Turgeon 12 (0-2-6); Teemu Selanne 5 (0-0-5); Chris Chelios 3 (0-0-3); Steve Yzerman 2 (0-0-2); Eric Lindros 1 (0-0-1)

Lafontaine was second in scoring. Gilmour was 7th in scoring (only 5 points back of Selanne who was tied for 5th though with many more goals obviously), and won the Selke (which I think was basically a consolation prize for not being able to win the Hart with Mario's season).

I mean, Selanne's 92-93 was great because he was a rookie, but in talking about the best seasons of all time, can you really give it to a forward who was only on 5 of 50 ballots, all of them 3rd place?

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03-18-2013, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by popculturereference View Post
1. Orr 69-70
2. Gretzky 81-82
3. Gretzky 85-86
4. Richard 44-45
5. Orr 74-75
6. Gretzky 83-84
7. Lemieux 88-89
8. Esposito 70-71
9. Lemieux 92-93
10. Coffey 85-86
11. Orr 70-71
12. Hainsworth 28-29
13. Orr 71-72
14. Gretzky 79-80
15. Malone 17-18
16. Bossy 80-81
17. Mikita 66-67
18. Gretzky 84-85
19. Howe 52-53
20. Esposito 68-69
21. Sawchuk 50-51
22. Hull 65-66
23. T. Esposito 69-70
24. Hasek 97-98
25. Parent 73-74
26. Hull 90-91
27. Howe 68-69
28. Selanne 92-93
29. Howe 50-51
30. Bourque 79-80
31. Bossy 77-78
32. Gretzky 82-83
33. Shore 32-33
34. Lemieux 87-88
35. Gretzky 86-87
36. Orr 73-74
37. Gretzky 80-81
38. Cowley 43-44
39. Hasek 93-94
40. Barrasso 83-84

This information was taken from the aforementioned "Century of Hockey" book by The Hockey News. I quickly copied it.
Barrasso?

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Old
03-18-2013, 06:10 PM
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Barrasso?
What the hell? Above any season from Hall, Plante, Dryden, or Roy? Above Hasek's 96-97 and only one spot below his 93-94? Their best goalie seasons are sure... not good... at least.

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03-18-2013, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Hart voting for 1992-93:

HART: Mario Lemieux 248 (49-1-0); Doug Gilmour 99 (0-29-12); Pat LaFontaine 52 (1-12-11); Adam Oates 28 (0-6-10); Pierre Turgeon 12 (0-2-6); Teemu Selanne 5 (0-0-5); Chris Chelios 3 (0-0-3); Steve Yzerman 2 (0-0-2); Eric Lindros 1 (0-0-1)

Lafontaine was second in scoring. Gilmour was 7th in scoring (only 5 points back of Selanne who was tied for 5th though with many more goals obviously), and won the Selke (which I think was basically a consolation prize for not being able to win the Hart with Mario's season).

I mean, Selanne's 92-93 was great because he was a rookie, but in talking about the best seasons of all time, can you really give it to a forward who was only on 5 of 50 ballots, all of them 3rd place?
Considering there are 13 cases on that list of 40 in which a player was named over the Hart winner (and 1992-93 was NOT one of them), I'd say that they probably didn't pay too much attention to who collected first, second, and third place votes. And it's never "a joke" to give praise to the only season where someone scored 20 goals in one month, even if he wasn't as valuable in one electorate's opinion as two other really good players.

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03-18-2013, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popculturereference View Post
1. Orr 69-70
2. Gretzky 81-82
3. Gretzky 85-86
4. Richard 44-45
5. Orr 74-75
6. Gretzky 83-84
7. Lemieux 88-89
8. Esposito 70-71
9. Lemieux 92-93
10. Coffey 85-86
11. Orr 70-71
12. Hainsworth 28-29
13. Orr 71-72
14. Gretzky 79-80
15. Malone 17-18
16. Bossy 80-81
17. Mikita 66-67
18. Gretzky 84-85
19. Howe 52-53
20. Esposito 68-69
21. Sawchuk 50-51
22. Hull 65-66
23. T. Esposito 69-70
24. Hasek 97-98
25. Parent 73-74
26. Hull 90-91
27. Howe 68-69
28. Selanne 92-93
29. Howe 50-51
30. Bourque 79-80
31. Bossy 77-78
32. Gretzky 82-83
33. Shore 32-33
34. Lemieux 87-88
35. Gretzky 86-87
36. Orr 73-74
37. Gretzky 80-81
38. Cowley 43-44
39. Hasek 93-94
40. Barrasso 83-84

This information was taken from the aforementioned "Century of Hockey" book by The Hockey News. I quickly copied it.
Thanks for posting that. This is a pretty terrible list, much worse than I remembered. Some seasons are insanely high relative to where they should be ranked and some are plain mystifying. The inclusions and placements of some season (Richard '45, Selanne '93, Howe '69, Hainsworth '29 and several others) clearly indicates that they didn't look far beyond raw stats. I would love to know why Bourque '80 is there.

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03-18-2013, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
What the hell? Above any season from Hall, Plante, Dryden, or Roy? Above Hasek's 96-97 and only one spot below his 93-94? Their best goalie seasons are sure... not good... at least.
I'm not sure what you're saying.

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03-18-2013, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
Considering there are 13 cases on that list of 40 in which a player was named over the Hart winner (and 1992-93 was NOT one of them), I'd say that they probably didn't pay too much attention to who collected first, second, and third place votes. And it's never "a joke" to give praise to the only season where someone scored 20 goals in one month, even if he wasn't as valuable in one electorate's opinion as two other really good players.
The Hart voting is just illustrative on how much better Gilmour and Lafontaine were than Selanne in 1992-93.

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03-18-2013, 06:31 PM
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Thanks for posting that. This is a pretty terrible list, much worse than I remembered. Some seasons are insanely high relative to where they should be ranked and some are plain mystifying. The inclusions and placements of some season (Richard '45, Selanne '93, Howe '69, Hainsworth '29 and several others) clearly indicates that they didn't look far beyond raw stats. I would love to know why Bourque '80 is there.
Yeah, that's another weird one - the season his lost the Norris to Randy Carlyle over any of his 5 Norris seasons? It's like they were like "Ray Bourque was awesome for a long time, let's put his rookie year."

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03-18-2013, 06:50 PM
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The Oddities

The Oddities have basic explanations.

Bourque, as a 19 year old broke the stereotype that teenage defensemen unless they were Bobby Orr needed time. Barasso showed that teenaged high school goalies could be regulars in the NHL.Selanne = 76 goal rookie season.

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03-18-2013, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
The Hart voting is just illustrative on how much better Gilmour and Lafontaine were than Selanne in 1992-93.
Voting will never tell you "how much."

You're acting like the voting is proof that a 76/132 season cannot be held above a 53/148 season or a 32/127 season - by anyone. It's really not a big deal for someone to praise a player with low Hart votes above players with exclusively 2nd and 3rd place votes. Hell, Gilmour was on significantly more ballots than LaFontaine (who was on less than half of all ballots), and Gilmour had 44 fewer goals than Selanne and 21 fewer points than LaFontaine.

Hart voting is a useful tool and all, but don't act like people can't disagree with the positioning of Lemieux's also-rans, especially given the difference in definition of "value" and "best," as well as the obviousness of Selanne winning a different award unanimously. I mean, it wasn't that long ago that you were saying Lidstrom was the best in 2005-06 (but not the most valuable) - and he had a lower percentage of top-three votes than this example with which you have a problem.

Voting records are tools; they are not evidence to suggest that a differing opinion on a different question is "a joke."

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