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2013 Leafs Trades/Proposals/Signings X - Steckel traded, next on the docket...

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Old
03-18-2013, 12:48 PM
  #301
p.l.f.
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so is something going to happen soon on the trade front?
theres a cold win blowing from the west today....


Last edited by p.l.f.: 03-18-2013 at 12:57 PM.
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03-18-2013, 12:48 PM
  #302
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What is the harm in giving Holzer that contract?

He was playing reasonably well when he was given that contract and could still certainly play at the NHL level in a bottom pairing capacity.

Considering the amount of cash he is making for the next couple of seasons, it provides little issue for the Leafs if they want to waive Holzer or deal him to a cash strapped team that is in need of a bottom pairing defender that can handle PK minutes.

Once this team upgrades its overall defensive core and the likes of a Gardiner/Reilly are ready to step into the Top 4, Holzer and his cheap contract along with his ability to play PK minutes and not exactly be a huge liability against 3rd and 4th lines will be actually beneficial to this team.

He's being exposed right now in the situations he's been given, but at some point you have to throw the kid out there to see exactly what you have.

I think Randy Carlyle has done a fantastic job in evaluating the organizational depth by playing certain players in positions that exceeded expectations and capabilities to see what he's got to work with all while keeping this team in a playoff position.
We never would have known what we had in Fraser if Carlyle didn't push the envelope to see what he had. Now he has an excellent bottom pairing dman in Fraser to reap the rewards. Sure, the Kostka experiment didn't work great, but he can now be traded for some sort of value.

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03-18-2013, 12:49 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by egd27 View Post
If Grabovski was to be demoted, is this really that bad?

JVR-Bozak-Kessel
Lupul-Kadri-Frattin
Kulemin-McClement-Komarov
MacArthur-Grabovski-Orr

First 2 getting around 18-20
Bottom 2 getting 10-12

edit...Could also double Kessel for a few shifts with Mac & Grabbo
From a team perspective it works out pretty well. How Grabovski reacts to being on the "4th line" and what if any effect it has on the locker room.

Plus there are some who would say that's alot of money for a 4th line center, that's why I think something has to be up for Grabovski's future. The other intangible right now is Bozak-does he re-sign, or go for UFA (which from what little I've gathered it sounds like if he's asking the moon Toronto will let him walk). Maybe Kadri takes over the first line, or goes 1A/1B with Grabs next season, with McClement and Colbourne being 3/4.

So many moving pieces right, hard to say what Carlyle's plans for Grabs are.

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03-18-2013, 12:52 PM
  #304
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- Ummmm..... because neither has stepped up to the plate yet? Both have gotten worse as the season has got on and oh did I mention NEITHER of them have much experience in net.
So people want to bring in Elliott who has been terrible this season and only ever had one good season under Hitchcock as the solution just because he's a veteran?

I'm all for bringing in a goalie upgrade by Elliott isn't an upgrade.

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Old
03-18-2013, 12:55 PM
  #305
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So people want to bring in Elliott who has been terrible this season and only ever had one good season under Hitchcock as the solution just because he's a veteran?

I'm all for bringing in a goalie upgrade by Elliott isn't an upgrade.
Its not necessarily just Elliott, St Louis has a lot of pieces the Leafs should be interested in , including a vet goalie

Assuming St Louis wants to move him to clear room for Allen there should be a dea there where the leafs could also get another piece or two

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Old
03-18-2013, 12:56 PM
  #306
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Michael Traikos ‏@Michael_Traikos 12m
#Leafs Grabovski on communication with coach Randy Carlyle: "He tell me I need to fix face-off, so I fix face-off. The next step, I wait."
Grabovski on whether big contract has affected his game: "I don't spend money. My wife spends all my money. Sorry wife."
Terry Koshan ‏@koshtorontosun 39sec
Carlyle on not using Grabovski in shootout on Sat: "We went with people in that situation we thought were going to give us one."


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03-18-2013, 12:56 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by MattFratt View Post
We never would have known what we had in Fraser if Carlyle didn't push the envelope to see what he had. Now he has an excellent bottom pairing dman in Fraser to reap the rewards. Sure, the Kostka experiment didn't work great, but he can now be traded for some sort of value.
I had thought at the beginning of the year, that this 48 game sched was effectively going to be a prolonged training camp, and that's exactly what its seeming to be. Would the playoffs be nice? Absolutely. However, it seems that Nonis and Carlyle are on the same page: this is a year for Toronto to see who they have and who they don't. That's why Kostka got the look, that's why Holzer is getting the look, and why Gardiner is still in the AHL (they KNOW what they have in him).

Going out on a limb here, but I'm going to speculate that if you could get inside the Leafs management, ect-they are NOT in a "playoffs or bust" mentality, they are in a "Let's see what the kids can do and where we can go with them. If we make the playoffs great, that's gravy, if not, then we're still seeing what we have." That's why some of these "weird" decisions are being made IMO-they see what they have this year, and will trade/deal/draft accordingly over the offseason. That's why I don't think Carlyle doesn't get fired if they miss the playoffs this year.

It's also interesting to note the "why on earth would we need a vet goaltender" that the media paraded about after Nonis said he was looking for one at the beginning of the year when Scrivs and Reimer were looking fantastic-now it doesn't seem like such a bad idea IMO.

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03-18-2013, 12:57 PM
  #308
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I say mcclement with jvr and kessel. Guarantee his points would match bozak on that line with better D.

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03-18-2013, 01:01 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
Michael Traikos ‏@Michael_Traikos 12m
#Leafs Grabovski on communication with coach Randy Carlyle: "He tell me I need to fix face-off, so I fix face-off. The next step, I wait."
Grabovski on whether big contract has affected his game: "I don't spend money. My wife spends all my money. Sorry wife."



Welcome to my world Grabo!

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Old
03-18-2013, 01:04 PM
  #310
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Welcome to my world Grabo!
The life of a married man, I can attest to that as well

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Old
03-18-2013, 01:09 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
Michael Traikos ‏@Michael_Traikos 12m
#Leafs Grabovski on communication with coach Randy Carlyle: "He tell me I need to fix face-off, so I fix face-off. The next step, I wait."
Grabovski on whether big contract has affected his game: "I don't spend money. My wife spends all my money. Sorry wife."
Terry Koshan ‏@koshtorontosun 39sec
Carlyle on not using Grabovski in shootout on Sat: "We went with people in that situation we thought were going to give us one."
This guy is funny. Love his English too.

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Old
03-18-2013, 01:11 PM
  #312
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I'd love to get Brassard and Mason in a package deal. They would be a good reclamation project for sure. They have some interesting prospects like savard and possibly amrboz (although to be honest, I haven't followed him much). I am not sure about John Moore who has really fallen off.

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03-18-2013, 01:36 PM
  #313
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agreed, preferably on defence.
You think defense is more a question mark then goal? They have been needing a change in goal now for a few years Reimer is so inconsistent, Scrivens has been about the same although better overall imo.

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03-18-2013, 01:40 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by ChuckWoods View Post
What is the harm in giving Holzer that contract?

He was playing reasonably well when he was given that contract and could still certainly play at the NHL level in a bottom pairing capacity.

Considering the amount of cash he is making for the next couple of seasons, it provides little issue for the Leafs if they want to waive Holzer or deal him to a cash strapped team that is in need of a bottom pairing defender that can handle PK minutes.

Once this team upgrades its overall defensive core and the likes of a Gardiner/Reilly are ready to step into the Top 4, Holzer and his cheap contract along with his ability to play PK minutes and not exactly be a huge liability against 3rd and 4th lines will be actually beneficial to this team.

He's being exposed right now in the situations he's been given, but at some point you have to throw the kid out there to see exactly what you have.

I think Randy Carlyle has done a fantastic job in evaluating the organizational depth by playing certain players in positions that exceeded expectations and capabilities to see what he's got to work with all while keeping this team in a playoff position.
The harm is the guy is a big stiff with low hockey IQ (positioning is always off and he misses tons of assignments leading to goals against) and he is softer than bloody Liles who's half his size. Why reward him after so few games with a multi-year deal? They had plenty of time to negotiate. The only player I like less than him is MacArthur.

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03-18-2013, 01:47 PM
  #315
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You think defense is more a question mark then goal? They have been needing a change in goal now for a few years Reimer is so inconsistent, Scrivens has been about the same although better overall imo.
A partner for Phanuef is this Teams greatest need.

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03-18-2013, 01:48 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by ForzaZuffa View Post
The harm is the guy is a big stiff with low hockey IQ (positioning is always off and he misses tons of assignments leading to goals against) and he is softer than bloody Liles who's half his size. Why reward him after so few games with a multi-year deal? They had plenty of time to negotiate. The only player I like less than him is MacArthur.
Are people forgetting that Holzer is an NHL rookie who, along with Fraser, formed the Marlies best shutdown pairing that led them to the Calder Cup finals in a similar system to what we play now? He hasnt been able to keep up with NHL first lines though...what a chump!

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03-18-2013, 01:51 PM
  #317
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Welcome to my world Grabo!
So your saying Gunnar for Elliot + is a potential deal?

Any ideas on what else comes our way and if Kulimen could be added

Thanks

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03-18-2013, 02:07 PM
  #318
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I think we missed the boat on Stewart, would be surprised to see him leave now.

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03-18-2013, 02:07 PM
  #319
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Are people forgetting that Holzer is an NHL rookie who, along with Fraser, formed the Marlies best shutdown pairing that led them to the Calder Cup finals in a similar system to what we play now? He hasnt been able to keep up with NHL first lines though...what a chump!
Fraser has been very good. Holzer has been bad on all pairings he's been with. There's the difference.

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03-18-2013, 02:33 PM
  #320
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I think we missed the boat on Stewart, would be surprised to see him leave now.
Good. I didn't want him at all.

We need to get rid of lazy players, not get more. Just watch Stewart next year after he gets paid.

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Old
03-18-2013, 02:41 PM
  #321
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I think Connolly will be Nonis's next trade... Maybe for a 3rd/4th rounder

I think Nonis will wait to see what our playoff situation is before pulling the trigger on anything else.

I expect either Liles or Gunnar or both to get moved for MAX value at the deadline to make room for Gards and Rielly

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Old
03-18-2013, 02:50 PM
  #322
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I think Connolly will be Nonis's next trade... Maybe for a 3rd/4th rounder

I think Nonis will wait to see what our playoff situation is before pulling the trigger on anything else.

I expect either Liles or Gunnar or both to get moved for MAX value at the deadline to make room for Gards and Rielly
Connolly only has 9 points in 19 AHL games. I'm thinking we'll be lucky to get a 5th for him now.

Liles and Kostka are probably gone by the deadline.

Gunnar probably gets moved at the draft.

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03-18-2013, 02:52 PM
  #323
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Fraser has been very good. Holzer has been bad on all pairings he's been with. There's the difference.
Fraser plays on the bottom pairing... against the absolute easiest competition the opposition has to offer... Holzer has been used in various situations, including long stretches on the top pairing against the oppositions best and in a secondary pairing against secondary competition.

How would Fraser look playing on the top pairing for a night getting 24+ minutes?

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03-18-2013, 02:59 PM
  #324
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I'd love to get Brassard and Mason in a package deal. They would be a good reclamation project for sure. They have some interesting prospects like savard and possibly amrboz (although to be honest, I haven't followed him much). I am not sure about John Moore who has really fallen off.
Mason had 1 good season 4 years ago.. hardly see the relevance and TBH I thought our entire fanbase would have learned that lessen from Raycroft.


I'm not exactly interested in taking on additional reclamation projects. That's typically what you do when you're a bottom-feeder and you have the roster spots to do it because you have no quality in your lineup.

You slot Brassard as our #1C with everyone watching in this market and you're basically setting him up to fail.

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Old
03-18-2013, 03:32 PM
  #325
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Grabovski for Montador and Pirri. Grabovski isn't worth much more
Problem is 4 more years at that cap hit after this one hurts Hawks

If Leafs were to eat some of that contract (20% maybe) going forward and take Monty then the Hawks might be intersted

Grabovski with that cap hit is major issue when Kane/Toews are due extensions in a few years

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