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Other Chicago & General Sports Thread XVII - Baseball has returned!

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Old
04-02-2013, 10:01 PM
  #526
Illinihockey
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
He is "playing on it" - Rose isn't sitting at home watching American Idol. If he doesn't think his game is ready for a return right now and believes that it will be with time (obviously he does), who are we to question him? He knows he's medically cleared. At that point it's purely a basketball decision, and he knows the sport, his body, and his mind a hell of a lot better than any of us do.
You can't simulate game intensity in practice.

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04-02-2013, 10:01 PM
  #527
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At that point it's purely a basketball decision, and he knows the sport, his body, and his mind a hell of a lot better than any of us do.
It's not a basketball decision, it's a health decision and the doctors know way better than he does when it comes to injury recovery.

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04-02-2013, 10:02 PM
  #528
Chris Hansen
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It has nothing to do with a mindset. The doctors are telling him to play because it's the only way he's going to be heeled. And he's refusing to listen. He's an idiot.
Huh? No doctor has said anything like that to my knowledge. And any doctor who did would be hilariously out of place if he/she did.

He is healed.
That is completely separate from being ready to return. A distinction a lot of people seem to have trouble acknowledging.

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04-02-2013, 10:03 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
You can't simulate game intensity in practice.
I think the guy who plays basketball for a living knows this too.

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04-02-2013, 10:05 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
It's not a basketball decision, it's a health decision and the doctors know way better than he does when it comes to injury recovery.
IU I know you're not a big NBA guy... you sure you've kept up with this enough to speak on it? Again, he's been cleared to play health-wise. It then becomes his decision whether he believes he can come back and contribute positively. Nobody knows that but him, and - to repeat myself - who are we to question him? He knows himself and he knows basketball much better than any of us.

The mental aspect of the game is completely separate from the physical. No doctor is qualified to speak on that. Only the player knows when he's ready. Really, doctors shouldn't be part of any discussion here, they were out of the picture quite a while ago...

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04-02-2013, 10:09 PM
  #531
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Good for the Astros.

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04-02-2013, 10:09 PM
  #532
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IU I know you're not a big NBA guy... you sure you've kept up with this enough to speak on it?
Don't need to watch games to have a good understanding the situation. I do more than enough reading and listening. But thanks for checking up on me.



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Huh? No doctor has said anything like that to my knowledge. And any doctor who did would be hilariously out of place if he/she did.
That's all I've been hearing the last 3-4 weeks, and it seems like Illini has heard the same. But maybe both of us are just making crap up...

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04-02-2013, 10:11 PM
  #533
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Yeah, so I forgot that I have a connection with an MLBTV account.

This will be fantastic for when the Cubs and Hawks/Bulls conflict.

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04-02-2013, 10:14 PM
  #534
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You know it's blacked out locally, right?

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Old
04-02-2013, 10:16 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
Don't need to watch games to have a good understanding the situation. I do more than enough reading and listening. But thanks for checking up on me.
I didn't mean it badly.. just have seen you post multiple times about disliking the NBA and refusing to watch it, etc. etc.
Noted, though.

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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
That's all I've been hearing the last 3-4 weeks, and it seems like Illini has heard the same. But maybe both of us are just making crap up...
Then you've heard wrong or are misremembering. I haven't seen Illinihockey claim that doctors were making basketball decisions for Rose - he just noted that a fellow NBA player and AP said they didn't get used to things until after they jumped into games. Which is true. But not every player is the same, and neither player spent as much time intensively practicing prior to returning like Rose has (especially not AP, but that's a different sport altogether so it really shouldn't be in the discussion).
An MD is in no position to tell a basketball player when he will be ready to return to his team and contribute. The doctor can only tell the player when he's physically healthy. Mental and physical are two completely different things here.

Doctors don't make basketball decisions... they know nothing of how Rose feels on the court. If he thinks practicing with his teammates every day and getting progressively more comfortable with the knee is the way to go, then fans have to respect his decision. If he doesn't think jumping into games is the correct decision, then he knows best. He's the player here - he knows the sport, knows his body, and fans need to recognize that.

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04-02-2013, 10:16 PM
  #536
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Good for the Astros.
F that. I want to see the perfect game.

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04-02-2013, 10:20 PM
  #537
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I didn't mean it badly.. just have seen you post multiple times about disliking the NBA and refusing to watch it, etc. etc.
Noted, though.



Then you've heard wrong or are misremembering. I haven't seen Illinihockey claim that doctors were making basketball decisions for Rose - he just noted that a fellow NBA player and AP said they didn't get used to things until after they jumped into games. Which is true. But not every player is the same, and neither player spent as much time intensively practicing prior to returning like Rose has (especially not AP, but that's a different sport altogether so it really shouldn't be in the discussion).
An MD is in no position to tell a basketball player when he will be ready to return to his team and contribute. The doctor can only tell the player when he's physically healthy. Mental and physical are two completely different things here.

Doctors don't make basketball decisions... they know nothing of how Rose feels on the court. If he thinks practicing with his teammates every day and getting progressively more comfortable with the knee is the way to go, then fans have to respect his decision. If he doesn't think jumping into games is the correct decision, then he knows best. He's the player here - he knows the sport, knows his body, and fans need to recognize that.
The doctor who did his surgery said the last stage of rehab is playing in games. He needs to play to get to 100%

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04-02-2013, 10:21 PM
  #538
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You know it's blacked out locally, right?
Is it based on your location with your personal MLB account details or where your computer is?

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Old
04-02-2013, 10:23 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
I didn't mean it badly.. just have seen you post multiple times about disliking the NBA and refusing to watch it, etc. etc.
Noted, though.



Then you've heard wrong or are misremembering. I haven't seen Illinihockey claim that doctors were making basketball decisions for Rose - he just noted that a fellow NBA player and AP said they didn't get used to things until after they jumped into games. Which is true. But not every player is the same, and neither player spent as much time intensively practicing prior to returning like Rose has (especially not AP, but that's a different sport altogether so it really shouldn't be in the discussion).
An MD is in no position to tell a basketball player when he will be ready to return to his team and contribute. The doctor can only tell the player when he's physically healthy. Mental and physical are two completely different things here.

Doctors don't make basketball decisions... they know nothing of how Rose feels on the court. If he thinks practicing with his teammates every day and getting progressively more comfortable with the knee is the way to go, then fans have to respect his decision. If he doesn't think jumping into games is the correct decision, then he knows best. He's the player here - he knows the sport, knows his body, and fans need to recognize that.
But the doctors know that he doesn't feel right because that is the norm for the injury. I know it's his body and everything, but I think he's in the wrong to not trust the doctors with what they are telling him. They know injury recovery better than he does.

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Old
04-02-2013, 10:23 PM
  #540
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I'd assume it's the location of your computer

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Old
04-02-2013, 10:24 PM
  #541
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
The doctor who did his surgery said the last stage of rehab is playing in games. He needs to play to get to 100%
The knee is going to continue the healing process whether he jumps into games immediately or not. My family is almost exclusively in medicine and I respect physicians like few people you'll find, but that doctor is an idiot if he's trying to speak for Rose's mental readiness as far as basketball is concerned. I highly doubt he was, at any rate.

Only Rose knows when he's ready. I sound like a broken record because I've said that so many times already, but really.
Again, at this point his knee's health isn't the question. It's his own comfortableness with playing basketball at a high level once again. And no doctor or fan knows that - only Rose does. That's what it comes down to.

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04-02-2013, 10:25 PM
  #542
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It's on location, they track your IP address.

I've been using an account that's based in Orlando (guy's card expired this year so I no longer have it )

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04-02-2013, 10:25 PM
  #543
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We presume that the doctor clearing him is Brian Cole, who performed the surgery last May. Shortly thereafter, Cole had this to say about this stage of the comeback, reported in the Chicago Tribune.

“I think there’s actually a lot of therapeutic benefit to starting with early minutes when it’s safe,” he said. “You have to play to play. All these muscle patterns have to kick in. You can do that off the court informally, but there’s a lot of benefit to playing.”


Cole made it clear that “The Return” is not something that takes place at the declared end of the recovery, but is indeed the most important stage of it. The final approach to 100% health and effectiveness can only occur in real action, if it’s going to happen at all.

“Whether he has to go 40 minutes, that’s a whole different story,” Cole said. “Just getting out there and playing when he’s able, that’s when his exponential growth is going to come.”

"You have to play to play. Nobody expects him to be himself, yet. In fact, he isn’t supposed to be."

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Old
04-02-2013, 10:28 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
But the doctors know that he doesn't feel right because that is the norm for the injury. I know it's his body and everything, but I think he's in the wrong to not trust the doctors with what they are telling him. They know injury recovery better than he does.
They know the physical aspect of injury recovery, certainly.
As far as the mental game related to basketball is concerned, however, a doctor knows only the same vague things that any of us do, i.e. "you don't feel right until you start playing in games again."

If this is the route Rose thinks is best for his mental game, then there is not a single person who has the knowledge to question his decision. Only he understands his own mind.

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Old
04-02-2013, 10:32 PM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
We presume that the doctor clearing him is Brian Cole, who performed the surgery last May. Shortly thereafter, Cole had this to say about this stage of the comeback, reported in the Chicago Tribune.

“I think there’s actually a lot of therapeutic benefit to starting with early minutes when it’s safe,” he said. “You have to play to play. All these muscle patterns have to kick in. You can do that off the court informally, but there’s a lot of benefit to playing.”


Cole made it clear that “The Return” is not something that takes place at the declared end of the recovery, but is indeed the most important stage of it. The final approach to 100% health and effectiveness can only occur in real action, if it’s going to happen at all.

“Whether he has to go 40 minutes, that’s a whole different story,” Cole said. “Just getting out there and playing when he’s able, that’s when his exponential growth is going to come.”

"You have to play to play. Nobody expects him to be himself, yet. In fact, he isn’t supposed to be."
I just see some vagueness... like "all these muscle patterns have to kick in," "there's a lot of benefit to be playing," etc...
"Muscle patterns" can certainly be taken care of by practicing.
As for there being "a lot of benefit" to play, well sure there is. Maybe. Once again, Cole is not a basketball player, never has been, never played it at a high level. He knows nothing more about the mental recovery than a fan would. Only you can only know what's best for your own mental game. A doctor speaking in fairly vague platitudes is pretty much meaningless.

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Old
04-02-2013, 10:42 PM
  #546
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I just see some vagueness... like "all these muscle patterns have to kick in," "there's a lot of benefit to be playing," etc...
"Muscle patterns" can certainly be taken care of by practicing.
As for there being "a lot of benefit" to play, well sure there is. Maybe. Once again, Cole is not a basketball player, never has been, never played it at a high level. He knows nothing more about the mental recovery than a fan would. Only you can only know what's best for your own mental game. A doctor speaking in fairly vague platitudes is pretty much meaningless.
Dude, he's not just some doctor. He's one of the best knee surgeons in the world. It's like saying Dr. James Andrews can't comment on shoulder surgery because he's not a pitcher.

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Old
04-02-2013, 10:46 PM
  #547
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Dude, he's not just some doctor. He's one of the best knee surgeons in the world. It's like saying Dr. James Andrews can't comment on shoulder surgery because he's not a pitcher.
I know who Brian Cole is.

He shouldn't be commenting on mental recovery from a basketball injury. Perhaps what he said applies to most players. Doesn't matter. Ultimately the player knows himself best. What Rose feels is best for himself probably is best for himself.
I'd certainly trust the player with understanding the mental game of basketball more than a doctor.

Cole can comment all he wants on the physical aspect of the injury. But only Rose understands the mental game here. That is hardly out of left field to say.

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Old
04-03-2013, 04:58 AM
  #548
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As someone who has had ACL surgery, twice, I can tell you being medically cleared and being ready to play the sport again are two different things. The first time I tore it in high school it was a full year before I was back on the ice in a game again.

When you are medically cleared all it means is your knee is strong enough that your normal activities won't hurt the knee and it's ready to be used in your sport. It doesn't mean your ready to go back and play the sport considering everything else.

First their is the mental aspect, you never really trust your knee again in the same way, it hurts when the weather changes, it gets tight when you sit still and don't stretch it out long enough, you find yourself protecting it in sudden moments as a reaction. It takes time to get over that stuff.

Then their is the rest of his body, his knee might be ready but rehabbing an injury isn't anywhere near the same as training for your sport. I had a hard time even skating when I first came back forgot about strapping on the pads and trying to stop pucks. His knee might be ok but he now he to go through the normal routine he would go through to get ready for an NBA season.

This is a proud man we are talking about, he doesn't want to step on a court at 80% and try to play his way into shape while getting embarresed out there. Fact is he knows his body, mind and everything else best and he will return when he can and as he said when he feels he can be 100% of the player he was before.

I think we see him soon but if we don't I am ok with it.

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Old
04-03-2013, 08:28 AM
  #549
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Nice to have someone agree with me

Yeah, there's a distinction to be made between physical and mental readiness. If Rose doesn't think he's ready, then he isn't. It's as simple as that.

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04-03-2013, 08:33 AM
  #550
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The Bulls are going nowhere. I don't understand why people can't just leave it be and look to next year.

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