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Todd Mclellan needs go

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03-20-2013, 01:19 AM
  #201
Gene Parmesan
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Originally Posted by Mister Wedge View Post
Exaggeration, I get it. But to suggest he is useless is funny. He's a half decent 6/7 d-man. Demers IS better, but lets be realistic please.
Its not really an exaggeration though. Hes even slower this year, he gives up the blue line due to being immobile. He blocks shots and will fight and hit on occasion. Hes too slow for the NHL. The Sharks have gotten alot out of him but hes aging fast and one dimensional players in general are becoming relics.

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03-20-2013, 01:25 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
Its not really an exaggeration though. Hes even slower this year, he gives up the blue line due to being immobile. He blocks shots and will fight and hit on occasion. Hes too slow for the NHL. The Sharks have gotten alot out of him but hes aging fast and one dimensional players in general are becoming relics.
But he battles!

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03-20-2013, 01:26 AM
  #203
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Murray used to be good because he used to have really good positioning to make up for his lack of speed but now I can't tell if his speed is even worse or if his positioning is worse. Anyways, he's not doing much and on defense, he hangs around the net to push people out of the crease or to block shots. He can't be aggressive because the other team will take advantage of him being slow and everyone knows it.

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03-20-2013, 01:27 AM
  #204
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But he battles!
So does Cheechoo.

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03-20-2013, 01:31 AM
  #205
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But he battles!
Remenda is an idiot "yeah hes slow, yeah he gives up the blueline, yeah he turns the puck over but he battles!"

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03-20-2013, 08:26 AM
  #206
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Its not really an exaggeration though. Hes even slower this year, he gives up the blue line due to being immobile. He blocks shots and will fight and hit on occasion. Hes too slow for the NHL. The Sharks have gotten alot out of him but hes aging fast and one dimensional players in general are becoming relics.
Yeah, at this point, Murray is a solid penalty-killing defenseman and that's it. The big problem with benching Demers is that they're essentially benching their second best puck-mover now that Burns has been moved up front or was out. They've also developed a terrible atmosphere for Braun and Demers as a mistake gets them yanked and that's the worst thing to do to young defensemen and stalls development.

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03-20-2013, 09:37 AM
  #207
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The last season the sharks played this poorly, was 2007-08. That year, the team leaned on beast Thornton and Nabby went all Vezina-candidate.

This year, Niemi is doing the Nabakov, but there is no beast Thornton.

I bring it up since that was Wilson's last year...

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03-20-2013, 10:04 AM
  #208
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I would rather have Demers in than Murray, but lets get real. Murray at #6 vs what we've had at #6 the last few years is a huge improvement and the piling on of how bad he is is way over the top on these boards right now. He's not the reason the Sharks are in the situation they are right now by a long shot.

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03-20-2013, 10:08 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
I would rather have Demers in than Murray, but lets get real. Murray at #6 vs what we've had at #6 the last few years is a huge improvement and the piling on of how bad he is is way over the top on these boards right now. He's not the reason the Sharks are in the situation they are right now by a long shot.
Agreed, but the point is McLellan fails to field the best lineup possible to win games. As has been discussed here ad nauseum, he's not giving the team the best chance possible to win games.

So it's not really ragging on Murray, but McLellan for his inability to do what it takes to give the Sharks the best chance to win night in and night out.

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03-20-2013, 10:26 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Mister Wedge View Post
My point is, realistically, how many more games do the Sharks win with Demers in the lineup instead of Murray. A negligible amount in my opinion.
Well considering how the difference from being in the 4th playoff spot and not in them at all could very well end up being 1 -3 points this year ...I'd say it's pretty fuc*ing important. Plus, one player can easily make a 5 game difference in this season imo. It doesn't take more than 12 minutes ice time to make 1-2 mistakes that directly lead to goals on a semi regular basis for some players. And that in how close hockey games are, is often the difference of winning and losing in the end. Especially if you consider momentum .

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03-20-2013, 10:34 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by ChompChomp View Post
Agreed, but the point is McLellan fails to field the best lineup possible to win games. As has been discussed here ad nauseum, he's not giving the team the best chance possible to win games.

So it's not really ragging on Murray, but McLellan for his inability to do what it takes to give the Sharks the best chance to win night in and night out.

Exactly. The Murray/Demers swap isn't going to magically make us Cup contenders, but how Todd doesn't realize that one is playing much better than the other is mind boggling. On top of that I am legitimately worried that Demers won't want to re-sign here because of how he's been handled this year, so it makes it even more important.

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03-20-2013, 10:45 AM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
I would rather have Demers in than Murray, but lets get real. Murray at #6 vs what we've had at #6 the last few years is a huge improvement and the piling on of how bad he is is way over the top on these boards right now. He's not the reason the Sharks are in the situation they are right now by a long shot.
Oh absolutely. Murray has been bad but he is not responsible for the teams overall performance.

A coach's job is to manage the players and ice the best lines. TMac has done an awful job benching Demers and Galiardi while playing Murray and Kennedy. The only way that is excusable is if DW has specifically asked Murray to be showcased. Murray may be an improvement over what we have had at #6 the last few years but given how poorly we have played, every little improvement counts. Icing Demers over Murray would definitely be a considerable improvement.

Kennedy was good the first couple of games but he slowed down after that and now is in IR because sending him to Worcester would mean having him go through waivers. I hope they keep him on IR and continue icing TJ like the last game.

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03-20-2013, 10:52 AM
  #213
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We have no idea what's going on in that locker room. Bench Murray and Demers gets hurt and Murray is not in game shape. Not to mention there is a certain respect Veterans get from coaches throughout the league. You can say it's wrong all you want, but it happens and I surmise there are good reasons behind it.

What if Demers was banged and bruised, but not bad enough to put on IR. There are so many IFs and none of us are close enough to the players and locker room to be spewing out the vitriol against Tmac that's going on right now. He didn't suddenly become a bad coach. And we all thought, I believe, that Robinson was a great addition when made.

The only reason to get rid of Tmac is because it's the easiest solution, if you don't mind who you end up with. And because it is likely to motivate the team FOR A WHILE regardless of who it is.

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03-20-2013, 10:53 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
Well considering how the difference from being in the 4th playoff spot and not in them at all could very well end up being 1 -3 points this year ...I'd say it's pretty fuc*ing important. Plus, one player can easily make a 5 game difference in this season imo. It doesn't take more than 12 minutes ice time to make 1-2 mistakes that directly lead to goals on a semi regular basis for some players. And that in how close hockey games are, is often the difference of winning and losing in the end. Especially if you consider momentum .
Honestly, I share this sentiment.

In a tight league, it matters. Having Demers, Boyle, and Braun in the lineup means that SJ has puck-moving ability on defense at all times. With Murray, the team is spending ~a quarter of the time at ES without one. With Murray, the team has a poor skater on defense for the same amount of time...

Morevover, Murray has been atrocious. There is a reason I call him Fatass all the time.

Don't get me wrong. If Murray was playing like a #4-5, tough a physical and doing a great job protecting the puck, I would have no issue with him in the lineup over Demers...

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03-20-2013, 11:00 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
Honestly, I share this sentiment.

In a tight league, it matters. Having Demers, Boyle, and Braun in the lineup means that SJ has puck-moving ability on defense at all times. With Murray, the team is spending ~a quarter of the time at ES without one. With Murray, the team has a poor skater on defense for the same amount of time...

Morevover, Murray has been atrocious. There is a reason I call him Fatass all the time.

Don't get me wrong. If Murray was playing like a #4-5, tough a physical and doing a great job protecting the puck, I would have no issue with him in the lineup over Demers...
And Demers gets lost on the PK and the puck is in the back of the net. Sorry, but Murray is still better on the PK than Demers and it works both ways.

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03-20-2013, 11:09 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
We have no idea what's going on in that locker room. Bench Murray and Demers gets hurt and Murray is not in game shape. Not to mention there is a certain respect Veterans get from coaches throughout the league. You can say it's wrong all you want, but it happens and I surmise there are good reasons behind it.

What if Demers was banged and bruised, but not bad enough to put on IR. There are so many IFs and none of us are close enough to the players and locker room to be spewing out the vitriol against Tmac that's going on right now. He didn't suddenly become a bad coach. And we all thought, I believe, that Robinson was a great addition when made.

The only reason to get rid of Tmac is because it's the easiest solution, if you don't mind who you end up with. And because it is likely to motivate the team FOR A WHILE regardless of who it is.
Well put

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03-20-2013, 11:13 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
Honestly, I share this sentiment.

In a tight league, it matters. Having Demers, Boyle, and Braun in the lineup means that SJ has puck-moving ability on defense at all times. With Murray, the team is spending ~a quarter of the time at ES without one. With Murray, the team has a poor skater on defense for the same amount of time...

Morevover, Murray has been atrocious. There is a reason I call him Fatass all the time.

Don't get me wrong. If Murray was playing like a #4-5, tough a physical and doing a great job protecting the puck, I would have no issue with him in the lineup over Demers...
Just for the record, Murray's far from fat.

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03-20-2013, 11:13 AM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
Its not really an exaggeration though. Hes even slower this year, he gives up the blue line due to being immobile. He blocks shots and will fight and hit on occasion. Hes too slow for the NHL. The Sharks have gotten alot out of him but hes aging fast and one dimensional players in general are becoming relics.
If Murray was TRULY useless, he would be benched or simply cut from the team. Despite the Sharks' troubles this season, there are still people within our organization that have an eye for talent, and that have been around the game longer than any of the posters on this board. That tells me, that management and coaching staff putt Murray on the ice for a reason. Again, I'm not saying Murray is a good d-man, I know he's had a rough year, but he's serviceable.
Also, If he was useless, would a bunch of us be trying to trade him to other teams on the Trade Rumors section?

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03-20-2013, 11:17 AM
  #219
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Just for the record, Murray's far from fat.
Big boned?

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03-20-2013, 11:19 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Mister Wedge View Post
If Murray was TRULY useless, he would be benched or simply cut from the team. Despite the Sharks' troubles this season, there are still people within our organization that have an eye for talent, and that have been around the game longer than any of the posters on this board. That tells me, that management and coaching staff putt Murray on the ice for a reason. Again, I'm not saying Murray is a good d-man, I know he's had a rough year, but he's serviceable.
Also, If he was useless, would a bunch of us be trying to trade him to other teams on the Trade Rumors section?
I disagree. Colin White was arguably even worse last year than Murray this year. And they iced him and played him as much.

TMac is horrible with managing players and seems to prefer veteran/experienced players over more skilled players.

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03-20-2013, 11:22 AM
  #221
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I disagree. Colin White was arguably even worse last year than Murray this year. And they iced him and played him as much.

TMac is horrible with managing players and seems to prefer veteran/experienced players over more skilled players.
Because management, coaches, saw that he brought something to the table. I thought Colin White was terrible too, but he was still a 6/7 d-man

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03-20-2013, 11:25 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Mister Wedge View Post
If Murray was TRULY useless, he would be benched or simply cut from the team. Despite the Sharks' troubles this season, there are still people within our organization that have an eye for talent, and that have been around the game longer than any of the posters on this board. That tells me, that management and coaching staff putt Murray on the ice for a reason. Again, I'm not saying Murray is a good d-man, I know he's had a rough year, but he's serviceable.
Also, If he was useless, would a bunch of us be trying to trade him to other teams on the Trade Rumors section?

The majority of us have said over and over that he's a very good shot blocker and PKer who can still lay the occasional big hit, but the bottom line is that he is now a worse player than Demers, and in a jam-packed playoff race where every point counts, we need every advantage we can get.

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03-20-2013, 11:38 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Mister Wedge View Post
If Murray was TRULY useless, he would be benched or simply cut from the team. Despite the Sharks' troubles this season, there are still people within our organization that have an eye for talent, and that have been around the game longer than any of the posters on this board. That tells me, that management and coaching staff putt Murray on the ice for a reason. Again, I'm not saying Murray is a good d-man, I know he's had a rough year, but he's serviceable.
Also, If he was useless, would a bunch of us be trying to trade him to other teams on the Trade Rumors section?
He is servicable but Demers is a better all around Dman at this point and brings more mobility and much better play with the puck. Murray is good on the PK and hes better than the previous #6 dmen we've had in the past but he brings zero offense and zero in the way of puck movement in which Demers can help with those issues.

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03-20-2013, 11:41 AM
  #224
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Because management, coaches, saw that he brought something to the table. I thought Colin White was terrible too, but he was still a 6/7 d-man
What did Colin White bring to the table last year? There is one thing with expecting/hoping him to bring something and another to see him make the same mistakes again and again and yet keep playing him.

This issue with management and coaching is exactly what the problem is. I am not mad at Murray because he is playing. I am mad at TMac icing him because better options are available. To me Murray is a known quantity I know exactly what I am getting from him. I cannot be mad at him if he makes the mistakes that I already expect him to make. I am resigned to that.

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03-20-2013, 11:54 AM
  #225
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Because management, coaches, saw that he brought something to the table. I thought Colin White was terrible too, but he was still a 6/7 d-man
I understand where you are coming from.

But what you say applies when SJ has no better options. SJ has options now. With Irwin's emergency, Murray shouldn't even be the #7 on this team...and that is a testament to SJ's depth.

I will say that to Demers's fault, he has not "seized" a roster spot the way Braun and Irwin have. He's played decently, but ever since '11 he's never really played so well that the team HAS to play him. Right now, he should get a spot because Murray is playing poorly.

Honestly, if Irwin keeps up this pace, Id be fine with:

Boyle-Irwin
Vlasic-Burns
Stuart-Braun

I would have no issue with Demers sitting, because he's done nothing to justify the others being moved/sitting.

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