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Progression of the rebuild

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Old
03-18-2013, 04:58 AM
  #26
InformTheMasses
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
Remove Tavares from this club the past two years and we own the first pick, including this years. While we have more developing, non-UFA depth than we had before, and have some promising kids that could be great players on the way, this club minus Tavares sucks and is possibly worse than the one you name.
While this is probably true, the coach is the main reason for that. The talent in the organization now is exponentially better than where it was 5 years ago. It's not close.

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03-18-2013, 08:32 AM
  #27
Chapin Landvogt
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The prospect pool is clearly better. This is, however, somewhat logo in light of the drafting position for five straight seasons. Fortunately, the scouting staff has been coming through.

However, the on-ice product isn't where it should be.

The team has, overall, practically been in stand-still for four seasons, give or take a few losing streaks. This could have been drastically altered with little more than one bonafide scoring winger and one bonafide thoroughbred Dman - both with NHL experience - having been added from the outside.

Mentioned it a few days ago in another post, but JT is the only building block to be improving at a rate and in a manner congruent with where the youngsters need to be in order for this team to become a competitor almost solely from 'within'. We'd be much further if the other arrivals during the rebuild were also on an upward curve.

- Martin and Cizikas are part of the long-term answer and are doing what they should be - in a positive manner.
- Basically, Nielsen, Grabner and MacDonald are where they need to be, but simply are what they are. There's not really much more of an upward curve... They are decent role players. All have (considerable) weaknesses. Each adds a certain intangible or two.
- Bailey, Hamonic and especially Okposo are not where they need to be. They're struggling. They were actually keys to the rebuild moving forward, but are far from the form they should be exhibiting at this stage. Each has a certain group of tools - each is facing a point in time where it must be questioned whether he has the toobox. Granted, Hamonic gets a bit of a bye as he is the latest of the group to make the NHL and also a defenseman, but something has happened this season and he is not the Travis we've seen in the years before. All three were supposed to be key ingredients to any success made by this team to date.

Within five years, a surefire playoff candidate, even if just for spots 7 and 8, should be the result of any rebuild/youth movement.

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03-18-2013, 08:56 AM
  #28
Jester9881
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
this club minus Tavares sucks and is possibly worse than the one you name.
Puff puff pass.... puff puff pass

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03-18-2013, 08:59 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
The prospect pool is clearly better. This is, however, somewhat logo in light of the drafting position for five straight seasons. Fortunately, the scouting staff has been coming through.

However, the on-ice product isn't where it should be.

The team has, overall, practically been in stand-still for four seasons, give or take a few losing streaks. This could have been drastically altered with little more than one bonafide scoring winger and one bonafide thoroughbred Dman - both with NHL experience - having been added from the outside.

Mentioned it a few days ago in another post, but JT is the only building block to be improving at a rate and in a manner congruent with where the youngsters need to be in order for this team to become a competitor almost solely from 'within'. We'd be much further if the other arrivals during the rebuild were also on an upward curve.

- Martin and Cizikas are part of the long-term answer and are doing what they should be - in a positive manner.
- Basically, Nielsen, Grabner and MacDonald are where they need to be, but simply are what they are. There's not really much more of an upward curve... They are decent role players. All have (considerable) weaknesses. Each adds a certain intangible or two.
- Bailey, Hamonic and especially Okposo are not where they need to be. They're struggling. They were actually keys to the rebuild moving forward, but are far from the form they should be exhibiting at this stage. Each has a certain group of tools - each is facing a point in time where it must be questioned whether he has the toobox. Granted, Hamonic gets a bit of a bye as he is the latest of the group to make the NHL and also a defenseman, but something has happened this season and he is not the Travis we've seen in the years before. All three were supposed to be key ingredients to any success made by this team to date.

Within five years, a surefire playoff candidate, even if just for spots 7 and 8, should be the result of any rebuild/youth movement.
Travis Hamonic has been fine.... you are the first and only person I've seen unhappy with his development. Even the glum "sky is falling" Islander fans are happy with Hamonic.

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:22 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
The prospect pool is clearly better. This is, however, somewhat logo in light of the drafting position for five straight seasons. Fortunately, the scouting staff has been coming through.

However, the on-ice product isn't where it should be.

The team has, overall, practically been in stand-still for four seasons, give or take a few losing streaks. This could have been drastically altered with little more than one bonafide scoring winger and one bonafide thoroughbred Dman - both with NHL experience - having been added from the outside.

Mentioned it a few days ago in another post, but JT is the only building block to be improving at a rate and in a manner congruent with where the youngsters need to be in order for this team to become a competitor almost solely from 'within'. We'd be much further if the other arrivals during the rebuild were also on an upward curve.

- Martin and Cizikas are part of the long-term answer and are doing what they should be - in a positive manner.
- Basically, Nielsen, Grabner and MacDonald are where they need to be, but simply are what they are. There's not really much more of an upward curve... They are decent role players. All have (considerable) weaknesses. Each adds a certain intangible or two.
- Bailey, Hamonic and especially Okposo are not where they need to be. They're struggling. They were actually keys to the rebuild moving forward, but are far from the form they should be exhibiting at this stage. Each has a certain group of tools - each is facing a point in time where it must be questioned whether he has the toobox. Granted, Hamonic gets a bit of a bye as he is the latest of the group to make the NHL and also a defenseman, but something has happened this season and he is not the Travis we've seen in the years before. All three were supposed to be key ingredients to any success made by this team to date.

Within five years, a surefire playoff candidate, even if just for spots 7 and 8, should be the result of any rebuild/youth movement.
I think what you're saying is generally bang-on accurate but with some caveats.

Tavares is the only player who looks like he's going to peak at a level where you hoped he would. Snow has provided ZERO support to any player that's been drafted, and Tavares just happens to be a player who has improved inspite of the poor support and coaching. He's extremely talented and motivated and he's his own reason for where he is today.

It's not surprising that it's the 22-25 year old pros that are either "struggling" or "are what they are" - these are the guys that had ZERO support when they first came up as well. They developed on an NHL team where they were put into situations that were impossible to succeed in. All of them.

Hamonic is an excellent player. He's well-beyond where many defensemen his age are. Consider he (and AMac) play the toughest minutes, and have for several years, on a team that has always struggled keeping the puck out of the net, often with terrible goaltending - not exactly a recipe for success. This year has been worse than prior years (at least with +/-) but this is the worst 5on5 team in recent memory as well

I'm not disappointed with any one player's development. Really. I think they are all, generally, what I'd expect given their circumstances; being, in a bad envioronment.

We all knew Boyes would score points if he played with JT. Many of us were pretty clear that Parenteau's "points" would be easily replaced, and they are. Boyes has more points than Anze Kopitar. I was glad they signed him. I'm glad he's on the team and producing. But that first line is not good.

The team will not improve until they improve the talent level on BOTH sides of the puck. Most importantly though, they have to be better defensively. This is goaltending, defensemen and forwards who play without the puck. They need more balanced scoring and more balanced players.
They have a one-dimensional first line, two fourth lines (one of them is a good one) and a second line that plays like a 4th line. They are far too soft, individualy and as a team.

Tavares is worse this year than he was last year. He's scoring more goals but he's really ineffective 5on5, that has to be a giant concern for Cappy and Snow - despite the stats.

This team will go as far as Tavares, Nabokov take them and frankly, even a "struggling" Tavares can be enough of a difference maker to make 8th place, IF the team battles hard defensively and gets great goaltending. But I cannot seriously look at any one player and be too disappointed with effort. Okposo hasn't been getting results but has been working hard. This team really tries, they just aren't that good.

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:28 AM
  #31
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I think it should be noted once again that Travis Hamonic has been playing the majority of this season with an ankle injury. For that, I'm willing to look past any "regression" or at least lack of improvement in his game. If he continues to play this way sans injury next season, then I'll be concerned.

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03-18-2013, 09:42 AM
  #32
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Two years we need to be in the mid-playoffs seed. If that happens, success. I'm just worried we only have one real star. Hopefully Nino or Strome develop into something special.

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Old
03-18-2013, 11:24 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by CaptDenisPotvin View Post
Wow i would be the first to say i have been completely frustrated with the lack of progress we have had in this rebuild. Looking at that lineup though, you have to somewhat admire the few pickups we made and the draft picks that are contributing this year and say we havent done that bad. That being said a FA signing could have moved us forward quicker but i do see your point and its valid.

Still think we should try to trade for Bernier on the kings...could be a goalie that makes us competitive for years
Would love to see that trade. What do you think would take it would take to get it done? I think Bishop could be an intriguing pick up. I would consider something like Visk/Streit and Boyes to Ottawa for Gryba and Bishop. Then maybe look to CGY for Bouwmester - maybe Okposo and a pick for Jay-Bou. Try and resign one of Visk or Streit. D could pan out like:

Bouwmester/Hamonic/Macdonald/Gryba some combination of the 4 as your top 2 pairings. Streit with Cark/Reinhart/Strait

You dont really take on any salary other then Bouw, which is eaten up by losing Okposo, Visk and Boyes. both Gryba and Bouw have 1 year left, so you have options to move next year or resign. Both are a risk, but have upside. You could be putting 2 bigger bodies our the back end, one of which can really skate. Maybe Bouw pans out and fins his TB form. Gryba looks to be a fill in for Reinahrt as both play a similar game..Reinhart with a potentially higher ceiling. Also shores up your D for next year and lets you focus on finding your top winger and 2C over the offseason.

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Old
03-18-2013, 01:11 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
I think what you're saying is generally bang-on accurate but with some caveats.

Tavares is the only player who looks like he's going to peak at a level where you hoped he would. Snow has provided ZERO support to any player that's been drafted, and Tavares just happens to be a player who has improved inspite of the poor support and coaching. He's extremely talented and motivated and he's his own reason for where he is today.

It's not surprising that it's the 22-25 year old pros that are either "struggling" or "are what they are" - these are the guys that had ZERO support when they first came up as well. They developed on an NHL team where they were put into situations that were impossible to succeed in. All of them.

Hamonic is an excellent player. He's well-beyond where many defensemen his age are. Consider he (and AMac) play the toughest minutes, and have for several years, on a team that has always struggled keeping the puck out of the net, often with terrible goaltending - not exactly a recipe for success. This year has been worse than prior years (at least with +/-) but this is the worst 5on5 team in recent memory as well

I'm not disappointed with any one player's development. Really. I think they are all, generally, what I'd expect given their circumstances; being, in a bad envioronment.

We all knew Boyes would score points if he played with JT. Many of us were pretty clear that Parenteau's "points" would be easily replaced, and they are. Boyes has more points than Anze Kopitar. I was glad they signed him. I'm glad he's on the team and producing. But that first line is not good.

The team will not improve until they improve the talent level on BOTH sides of the puck. Most importantly though, they have to be better defensively. This is goaltending, defensemen and forwards who play without the puck. They need more balanced scoring and more balanced players.
They have a one-dimensional first line, two fourth lines (one of them is a good one) and a second line that plays like a 4th line. They are far too soft, individualy and as a team.

Tavares is worse this year than he was last year. He's scoring more goals but he's really ineffective 5on5, that has to be a giant concern for Cappy and Snow - despite the stats.

This team will go as far as Tavares, Nabokov take them and frankly, even a "struggling" Tavares can be enough of a difference maker to make 8th place, IF the team battles hard defensively and gets great goaltending. But I cannot seriously look at any one player and be too disappointed with effort. Okposo hasn't been getting results but has been working hard. This team really tries, they just aren't that good.
A few points:

1) Having strong linemates makes a player look better. However, having strong linemates does not ensure proper development of a prospect. Josh Bailey and Kyle Okposo still need to figure out what they need to do to be come better players with the skillset they have. I don't think you can blame lack of supporting cast on failure of development. Coaching and intrinsic motivation to succeed is what leads to development of players. Some players come to the realization that they do not have the skill set to play a certain role and adjust accordingly. Regardless of the reason, you cannot blame lack of development on supporting cast. There are players on Junior/AHL teams that have horrible teams that develop just fine. They too are not on clubs with a strong supporting cast.

2) I disagree with your assessment of JT being worse this year 5 on 5. I think he's been much better this year than last in all three zones regardless of what his +/- shows. Is there room for improvement? Sure. But that's not the same thing as saying he is worse this year than last.

3) As far as Okposo and Bailey go, they both have issues with hockey sense and confidence. KO is always moving, but mostly without purpose. Bailey still looks lost and still needs to improve foot speed and strength. It's inexcusable how weak both these players are on the puck at this point of their development. And this too cannot be blamed on support. The desire to improve comes from within. And a bit of coaching goes a long way as well.

4) Capuano still continues to baffle me. Bailey had most of his success on the RW last year. Why the hell is he playing LW then? Also why in the world is a Reasoner (5 assists in 23 GP) the center on a line with your third best goal-scoring forward in Grabner? Why is Cizikas (4-7-11 in 25gp) usually centering two guys with limited offensive potential? Talk about not knowing puting your players in a position to succeed.

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Old
03-18-2013, 01:24 PM
  #35
A Pointed Stick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Puff puff pass.... puff puff pass
Lol, but minus Tavares, where do you think they finish, this and the past two years?

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03-18-2013, 01:28 PM
  #36
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While this is probably true, the coach is the main reason for that. The talent in the organization now is exponentially better than where it was 5 years ago. It's not close.
I am a big fan about results vs on paper progress. An organizational throttle on player development has impacts.

Outside of Tavares, and then Hamonic, what do we have?

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03-18-2013, 01:32 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Puff puff pass.... puff puff pass
It's actually 'Puff puff, give. Puff puff, give. You ****in' up the rotation. You can get killed with someone else. That's some serious ****, you're lucky you're my boy'.

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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
Lol, but minus Tavares, where do you think they finish, this and the past two years?
I wouldn't even want to think how bad this team would be without Tavares. We'd be the Oilers with their 3 #1's and screw up their development.

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03-18-2013, 02:05 PM
  #38
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A few points:

1) Having strong linemates makes a player look better. However, having strong linemates does not ensure proper development of a prospect. Josh Bailey and Kyle Okposo still need to figure out what they need to do to be come better players with the skillset they have. I don't think you can blame lack of supporting cast on failure of development. Coaching and intrinsic motivation to succeed is what leads to development of players. Some players come to the realization that they do not have the skill set to play a certain role and adjust accordingly. Regardless of the reason, you cannot blame lack of development on supporting cast. There are players on Junior/AHL teams that have horrible teams that develop just fine. They too are not on clubs with a strong supporting cast.

2) I disagree with your assessment of JT being worse this year 5 on 5. I think he's been much better this year than last in all three zones regardless of what his +/- shows. Is there room for improvement? Sure. But that's not the same thing as saying he is worse this year than last.
I think JT is a better player this year, better than last year. He is less effective at even strength. I'd wager he has far worse stats at even strength than last year and one day I may look it up, to prove what they eyes see.

I think he's not playing his best and I believe it's dues to his linemates - ill-suited to 5on5 play. He has to burden too much of the dirty work which limits his ability to create offense and the line is far too frequently stuck in their own end, losing puck battles. Tavares is less effective, subsequently.

Quote:

3) As far as Okposo and Bailey go, they both have issues with hockey sense and confidence. KO is always moving, but mostly without purpose. Bailey still looks lost and still needs to improve foot speed and strength. It's inexcusable how weak both these players are on the puck at this point of their development. And this too cannot be blamed on support. The desire to improve comes from within. And a bit of coaching goes a long way as well.
I believe hockey sense if fairly "flat" in a player's career. I think they adapt to their environment continually, unique in every league, until the ultimate challenge, the NHL. Since coming to the NHL Okposo's been good, has always struggled with confidence and consistency. Same for Bailey. What they have NOT experienced is success.

You're right about Okposo. Seems like he's been lazy at times (early this year, some last year) and has done nothing. But of late, he's buzzing like a Cizikas but completely aimlessly. He reminds me of Mike Brown or Steve Webb, hustling aimlessly so the coach sees him "working hard" (except he isn't as physical). But Okposo's too good to be a 4th line energy guy, which is how's he's playing, and not well. He seems to have an identity crisis, not unlike Comeau did in his final days. He's a talented player, he should be able to maximize all the things he DOES do well (skating, strength, shot) and be effective and consistent. He is clearly not there.

Bailey has far more hockey sense but seems to struggle with his decisions and confidence. And to your point, why wouldn't he be played in the same way as when he experienced the most success? I'm not a huge believer that there's a major difference between LW/RW but a player like Bailey cannot be effective offensively with certain linemates. Now, he's far too talented to be outscored by Cizikas, McDonald and Aucoin, and it's mostly on HIM to adapt and get better. But as you said, surrounding him with better players would make him APPEAR better (at least statistically). And that shouldn't be the objective.

I believe a player should be effective with/without linemates, but you don't measure that effectiveness by stats. I don't expect Boyes 24pts to be special, given how (and with whom) he gets those points. If Boyes played with Nielsen and Grabner, you can be sure he'd have a handful of points, or less. I'd love to see Bailey on the top line because I think they'd click like crazy.


Quote:
4) Capuano still continues to baffle me. Bailey had most of his success on the RW last year. Why the hell is he playing LW then? Also why in the world is a Reasoner (5 assists in 23 GP) the center on a line with your third best goal-scoring forward in Grabner? Why is Cizikas (4-7-11 in 25gp) usually centering two guys with limited offensive potential? Talk about not knowing puting your players in a position to succeed.
Reasoner makes no sense to me. I don't think he's that good on faceoffs, that good defensively. He was an offensive player for most of his career and through experience, has become somewhat reliable 5on5 but he offers so little offensively that it makes zero sense playing him more than, say, Boulton.

It the 4th line is Boulton - Reasoner - Aucoin and they get 5-7min per night, no harm done (relatively speaking) but why Marty's playing with Grabs is just strange.

Cappy needs to spread out the guys that deliver what the team lacks the most: energy and competitiveness.

Martin - Cizikas - McDonald >> spread around the energy and battle level
Moulson - Boyes >> spread out the one-dimensional, soft, offensive players
Bailey-Nielsen-Okposo >> they lack chemistry. Adding a big winger would help immensely.

Martin needs to play more. He's very underrated.

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03-18-2013, 02:08 PM
  #39
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I've said this before, and I think it fits fine here:
We've always had prospects, from Chris Marinucci to Rob Friggin, but this bunch seems to be different.

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03-18-2013, 02:19 PM
  #40
Chapin Landvogt
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Travis Hamonic has been fine.... you are the first and only person I've seen unhappy with his development. Even the glum "sky is falling" Islander fans are happy with Hamonic.
Haven't been reading the boards or game-day threads much lately, eh?

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03-18-2013, 02:21 PM
  #41
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I think JT is a better player this year, better than last year. He is less effective at even strength. I'd wager he has far worse stats at even strength than last year and one day I may look it up, to prove what they eyes see.

I think he's not playing his best and I believe it's dues to his linemates - ill-suited to 5on5 play. He has to burden too much of the dirty work which limits his ability to create offense and the line is far too frequently stuck in their own end, losing puck battles. Tavares is less effective, subsequently.
PAP played good defensively towards the end of his stint here and Moulson skated more. MM was a much better player last two years. This year? Country Club got to him IMHO. Boyes is what he is and he is trying, but he doesn't backcheck well. So, yes, Tavares is trying to do too much.


Quote:
I believe hockey sense if fairly "flat" in a player's career. I think they adapt to their environment continually, unique in every league, until the ultimate challenge, the NHL. Since coming to the NHL Okposo's been good, has always struggled with confidence and consistency. Same for Bailey. What they have NOT experienced is success.

You're right about Okposo. Seems like he's been lazy at times (early this year, some last year) and has done nothing. But of late, he's buzzing like a Cizikas but completely aimlessly. He reminds me of Mike Brown or Steve Webb, hustling aimlessly so the coach sees him "working hard" (except he isn't as physical). But Okposo's too good to be a 4th line energy guy, which is how's he's playing, and not well. He seems to have an identity crisis, not unlike Comeau did in his final days. He's a talented player, he should be able to maximize all the things he DOES do well (skating, strength, shot) and be effective and consistent. He is clearly not there.
I think KO has a lower hockey IQ and that hurts him.

Quote:
Bailey has far more hockey sense but seems to struggle with his decisions and confidence. And to your point, why wouldn't he be played in the same way as when he experienced the most success? I'm not a huge believer that there's a major difference between LW/RW but a player like Bailey cannot be effective offensively with certain linemates. Now, he's far too talented to be outscored by Cizikas, McDonald and Aucoin, and it's mostly on HIM to adapt and get better. But as you said, surrounding him with better players would make him APPEAR better (at least statistically). And that shouldn't be the objective.

I believe a player should be effective with/without linemates, but you don't measure that effectiveness by stats. I don't expect Boyes 24pts to be special, given how (and with whom) he gets those points. If Boyes played with Nielsen and Grabner, you can be sure he'd have a handful of points, or less. I'd love to see Bailey on the top line because I think they'd click like crazy.
I would like Bailey'd hockey IQ tried there.....but ideally if we got a prototypical two way center for line 2, Bailey would thrive. He always works and has the brains.....the rest would germinate from better chances IMHO.


Quote:
Reasoner makes no sense to me. I don't think he's that good on faceoffs, that good defensively. He was an offensive player for most of his career and through experience, has become somewhat reliable 5on5 but he offers so little offensively that it makes zero sense playing him more than, say, Boulton.

It the 4th line is Boulton - Reasoner - Aucoin and they get 5-7min per night, no harm done (relatively speaking) but why Marty's playing with Grabs is just strange.

Cappy needs to spread out the guys that deliver what the team lacks the most: energy and competitiveness.

Martin - Cizikas - McDonald >> spread around the energy and battle level
Moulson - Boyes >> spread out the one-dimensional, soft, offensive players
Bailey-Nielsen-Okposo >> they lack chemistry. Adding a big winger would help immensely.

Martin needs to play more. He's very underrated.
Careful tinkering with line 1....Boyes as I said is the right type to be with JT and MM, best on the roster only because we have no one better. Bailey might work, but he's not the ideal. If Martin shot better and could stickhandle better, he's be catapulted to that spot.

Bailey and Nielson are redundant, while KO and Nielson fit. I'd like to see someone big, like Nino when he loses the rattler and bib, slotted on that line to break Nino in. Bailey, if Strome progresses, would fit as a shooter/defensive guard for Strome. Grabner might plug in, might not.....which is the problem with Grabner. He's like Blake where he's great with individual effort but tough to spot in a lineup card when chemistry is vital.

I think the point is we're gonna have to bring in talent and move some bodies to get better fits.

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Old
03-18-2013, 04:28 PM
  #42
Jester9881
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
Lol, but minus Tavares, where do you think they finish, this and the past two years?
There's no way to know for sure. One thing I can guarantee.... Jon Sim and Fedotenko wouldn't be getting top six minutes. We wouldn't be relying on Bruno and Campoli.... and Rick wouldn't be the #1.

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Old
03-18-2013, 04:31 PM
  #43
Jester9881
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
I am a big fan about results vs on paper progress. An organizational throttle on player development has impacts.

Outside of Tavares, and then Hamonic, what do we have?
Really?

One of the best prospect pools in the NHL, for one. Add into Neilsen, AMAC, Martin, Cizikas and pick ups like Moulson, Grabner and Streit?

This team is infinitely better off than it was in 07-08. You're blind if you think otherwise lol.

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03-18-2013, 04:34 PM
  #44
Jester9881
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Haven't been reading the boards or game-day threads much lately, eh?
I haven't been.... but if folks here are *****ing about Hamonic, I will kindly bid you all adieu right now. I've got no time for talking nonsense like that.

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Old
03-18-2013, 04:37 PM
  #45
2ndGenIslander
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
It's been a long and slow, but steady rebuild.... but we're starting to see the fruits of it.

I consider the end of the 07-08 season the start of the rebuild. This is what our opening night lineup looked like that year:

Goaltenders
39 Rick DiPietro
34 Wade Dubielewicz

Defensemen
32 Brendan Witt 24 Radek Martinek
25 Andy Sutton 47 Marc-Andre Bergeron
14 Chris Campoli 8 Bruno Gervais

Forwards
16 Jon Sim 18 Mike Sillinger 7 Trent Hunter
26 Ruslan Fedotenko 89 Mike Comrie 13 Bill Guerin
11 Andy Hilbert 63 Josef Vasicek 81 Miroslav Satan
20 Sean Bergenheim 10 Richard Park 27 Darryl Bootland

I believe, the only prospect we had of note was Kyle Okposo.

This is why it's taken so long. For the people that have pissed and moaned about how slow it's been, and charged that we have made no progress....

I want you to look at that roster long and hard. I want you to look at what we have now both at the NHL level and in the minors. Ruslan Fedotenko was on our first line.... Andy Hilbert was on our second line. Think about that for a moment, and be happy where we are right now.
The above is probably the worst professional team for any franchise that has ever been iced.Why would anyone pay money to see them play lol

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03-18-2013, 07:05 PM
  #46
MatthewBarnabysTears
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Originally Posted by 2ndGenIslander View Post
The above is probably the worst professional team for any franchise that has ever been iced.Why would anyone pay money to see them play lol
Sure, they were bad, but not as bad as, say, the 2008-2009 Islanders.

At least the 07-08 team had two 20-goal scorers (Guerin and Comrie) and provided a couple of good memories (Arbour's cameo, Berard's comeback). The next season? The leading goal scorer was Okposo (18) and the leading scorer was Mark Streit.

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03-18-2013, 07:33 PM
  #47
ScaredStreit
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It's been roughly 1/3 of a normal season-and we're 1 game above .500.....I wouldn't get excited about the rebuild just yet. I'd like to see (and expect) more by this points.

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Old
03-18-2013, 08:06 PM
  #48
Doshell Propivo
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
be happy where we are right now.
6 straight losing seasons. What's not to be happy about? This is awesome. Now let's just hope they dump more vets for picks at the deadline. Can't wait for the draft party.

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Old
03-18-2013, 08:13 PM
  #49
blitzkriegs
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
PAP played good defensively towards the end of his stint here and Moulson skated more. MM was a much better player last two years. This year? Country Club got to him IMHO. Boyes is what he is and he is trying, but he doesn't backcheck well. So, yes, Tavares is trying to do too much.



I think KO has a lower hockey IQ and that hurts him.



I would like Bailey'd hockey IQ tried there.....but ideally if we got a prototypical two way center for line 2, Bailey would thrive. He always works and has the brains.....the rest would germinate from better chances IMHO.




Careful tinkering with line 1....Boyes as I said is the right type to be with JT and MM, best on the roster only because we have no one better. Bailey might work, but he's not the ideal. If Martin shot better and could stickhandle better, he's be catapulted to that spot.

Bailey and Nielson are redundant, while KO and Nielson fit. I'd like to see someone big, like Nino when he loses the rattler and bib, slotted on that line to break Nino in. Bailey, if Strome progresses, would fit as a shooter/defensive guard for Strome. Grabner might plug in, might not.....which is the problem with Grabner. He's like Blake where he's great with individual effort but tough to spot in a lineup card when chemistry is vital.

I think the point is we're gonna have to bring in talent and move some bodies to get better fits.
I agree one of Okposo, Neilsen, or Bailey would need to be moved to balance out the roster.

I just noticed Ryan Malone has Wang numbers (Higher cap hit/lower cash salary) for the next two seasons. Would be a nice body on the second line.

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:42 PM
  #50
rikker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
We're not going to get a real HC, or a veteran still in his prime until this team turns a corner. I think between the strides we've made recently, and the arena situation coming to a close.... this coming off season might be that time.
eeeeexactly....

it's not as easy as making a wish on a 'shiny' shooting star...

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