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Old
03-25-2013, 03:21 PM
  #826
hototogisu
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Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
So the Sharks give up on the playoffs?

Or Murray is just washed up?
They got an offer they couldn't refuse, IMO. I don't think it necessarily makes them sellers.

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03-25-2013, 03:24 PM
  #827
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
They still have 7 D's and a pretty solid unit on paper...

The surprising Irwin
That's some last name, how do they get it to fit on his jersey? Do they wrap it around?

Is he related to the Amazing Kreskin?

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Old
03-25-2013, 03:25 PM
  #828
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^ 100%. Drafting and developing is so crucial to competing these days in the NHL. If a small percentage of draft picks end up being impact players and help you win, how does it help to lower that % by trading for bottom of the line up players?

There are other ways of getting veteran players then giving away high draft picks.

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03-25-2013, 03:31 PM
  #829
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Must have loved Gauthier/Gainey last few years. They traded away so many picks.

James Wisniewski
for
2011 2nd round pick (#50-Johan Sundstrom)
2013 4th round pick

Dominic Moore
for
2011 2nd round pick (#47-Matt Nieto)

Mathieu Schneider
for
2009 2nd round pick (#45-Jeremy Morin)
2010 3rd round pick (#87-Julian Melchiori)

Robert Lang
for
2010 2nd round pick (#32-Jared Knight)

Alex Tanguay
2008 5th round pick (#138-Maxim Trunev)
for
2008 1st round pick (#25-Greg Nemisz)
2009 2nd round pick (#49-Stefan Elliott)

Paul Mara
for
2012 5th round pick
Yeah but none of the picks turn out or is playing in the NHL. Besides, we had a good playoff run almost to the final that year.

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Old
03-25-2013, 03:32 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Irrelevant still. We need to add a physical D man, not engage in a multi-player deal. Especially since I am referring to acquiring players at the deadline.
Relevant. We need to build up some organizational depth before being able to use up picks/prospects to acquire rentals at the deadline. That depth was already used up from 2008-2011.

An extreme example to drive a point - would you trade Galchenyuk for future hall of famer Iginla?


Last edited by Watsatheo: 03-25-2013 at 03:41 PM.
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Old
03-25-2013, 03:38 PM
  #831
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Dammit, I think Pitt made themselves twice as much a contender with Murray. Their D was their Achilles heel. Guess we get the first test run.

IMO even two 2nd round picks is pretty damn good for Pitt considering their organizational structure. Not that SJ got fleeced, just thought it would have taken more given it was obviously the Pens needed a big D man who can play, badly.

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Old
03-25-2013, 03:48 PM
  #832
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
Dammit, I think Pitt made themselves twice as much a contender with Murray. Their D was their Achilles heel. Guess we get the first test run.

IMO even two 2nd round picks is pretty damn good for Pitt considering their organizational structure. Not that SJ got fleeced, just thought it would have taken more given it was obviously the Pens needed a big D man who can play, badly.
How does a guy who is playing #6 minutes on a fringe NHL make a top contender much better? They traded for Murray, not Doughty!

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03-25-2013, 03:58 PM
  #833
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How does a guy who is playing #6 minutes on a fringe NHL make a top contender much better? They traded for Murray, not Doughty!
Maybe they thought they were getting Doughty and were getting a hellava deal? D'oh!

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Old
03-25-2013, 04:27 PM
  #834
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How does a guy who is playing #6 minutes on a fringe NHL make a top contender much better? They traded for Murray, not Doughty!
I've seen Murray play a lot. IMO it's one of those situations where you move the player to a different setup and it makes a world of a difference. I don't even think this is a gamble. This is a sure deal given what Pitt's problems are. Murray gives them the one thing they're lacking (well...maybe a good goalie, he's had maybe 5-6 good games this season.)

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Old
03-25-2013, 04:35 PM
  #835
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
When did Gauthier trade away all these picks? Wisniewski is the only one I can recall.

He left Bergevin with 5 2nd rounders in 2012 and 2013 when he left.
He gave the team no extra 2nd rounders. 2 of those 5 picks were given by the league nothing to do with PG

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03-25-2013, 04:35 PM
  #836
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Damn. This hurts.

I am starting to believe that Bergevin is just a younger version of Gauthier.

Pens get Murray. We get Halpern.

Wow.
Wow is right. Now we all know you're just a troll, with a statement like that. First you want Parros over Halpern - even though Parros is not available! Now you're comparing forwards and defence-men - do you even WATCH hockey?

This season is too short and too intense to be staring at daft posts like yours. Keep going as you are - I'm sure you'll amuse a few before your inevitable ban. Bye-Bye.

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03-25-2013, 04:37 PM
  #837
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Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
Wow is right. Now we all know you're just a troll, with a statement like that. First you want Parros over Halpern - even though Parros is not available! Now you're comparing forwards and defence-men - do you even WATCH hockey?

This season is too short and too intense to be staring at daft posts like yours. Keep going as you are - I'm sure you'll amuse a few before your inevitable ban. Bye-Bye.
He won't get banned... just look at me im still here trolling

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Old
03-25-2013, 04:41 PM
  #838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
He gave the team no extra 2nd rounders. 2 of those 5 picks were given by the league nothing to do with PG
Well you have to consider that he didn't trade them away even though he could have.

But seriously, the bar is that low when it comes to Gauthier's tenure.

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Old
03-25-2013, 04:43 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by rockjngo View Post
Yeah but none of the picks turn out or is playing in the NHL. Besides, we had a good playoff run almost to the final that year.
Irrelevant. WE have Timmins. The other teams don't. Our record is amongst the greatest. What we do with our picks is WAY more important than most of the NHL teams with their only mediocre to average scouting group.

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Old
03-25-2013, 04:45 PM
  #840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Relevant. We need to build up some organizational depth before being able to use up picks/prospects to acquire rentals at the deadline. That depth was already used up from 2008-2011.

An extreme example to drive a point - would you trade Galchenyuk for future hall of famer Iginla?
No. Would you trade Jarome Iginla for Ben Maxwell or Mathieu Carle?

And since its a conditional pick included (could be a 3rd rounder), would you make the same trade, Iginla for Weber, Fortier or Ryan White?

I appreciate your attempt to find some relevance. And even in doing so, you changed the bar to fit your assertion by including the #3 pick in the first round for some twisted sort of equivalence.

Its easy to point out the prospects who become great players. Your forget its also just as easy to see the prospects who have become nothing more than scrubs and afterthoughts.

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Old
03-25-2013, 04:50 PM
  #841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
Wow is right. Now we all know you're just a troll, with a statement like that. First you want Parros over Halpern - even though Parros is not available! Now you're comparing forwards and defence-men - do you even WATCH hockey?

This season is too short and too intense to be staring at daft posts like yours. Keep going as you are - I'm sure you'll amuse a few before your inevitable ban. Bye-Bye.
Watch the Habs against the Bruins on Wednesday.

Then imagine playing a 4-7 game series against them.

You think Halpern is going to help? With his zero goals and one assist?

Good luck to you if you do.

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Old
03-25-2013, 05:02 PM
  #842
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Watch the Habs against the Bruins on Wednesday.

Then imagine playing a 4-7 game series against them.

You think Halpern is going to help? With his zero goals and one assist?

Good luck to you if you do.
Yeah, the Bruins are unbeatable in a 7 game series. Yet, we went to overtime in game 7 against them the year they won the cup. Would Parros had really made a difference between winning that game or not? He would probably have played close to 3-4 mins in the whole game.

Sure, we could use some reinforcement because we're not the biggest team on D, but to bash on a guy we got for nothing for that "reason"? Man, come on. It's not like Bergevin let a big tough guy go for Halpern, at the very worst we're not losing anything and at the very best we get a capable veteran 4th liner to win faceoffs when it matters.

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Old
03-25-2013, 05:11 PM
  #843
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Originally Posted by Impossible Glory View Post
Yeah, the Bruins are unbeatable in a 7 game series. Yet, we went to overtime in game 7 against them the year they won the cup. Would Parros had really made a difference between winning that game or not? He would probably have played close to 3-4 mins in the whole game.

Sure, we could use some reinforcement because we're not the biggest team on D, but to bash on a guy we got for nothing for that "reason"? Man, come on. It's not like Bergevin let a big tough guy go for Halpern, at the very worst we're not losing anything and at the very best we get a capable veteran 4th liner to win faceoffs when it matters.
You cannot rewrite history with what ifs. For if we could, we could set up all sorts of scenarios and then end up with Max Pacioretty not getting injured that season and Jacques Martin having more faith in Benoit Pouliot.

All of that is a waste of time and effort. The reality is that we lost the series. Game 4 or Game 7 in OT is no different. The Bruins were more physical and we could not put them away after winning the first two games.

Fair enough regarding Halpern. History will show if this was the right or wrong move.

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Old
03-25-2013, 05:19 PM
  #844
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wow Semin 35 for 5 yrs ? that seems quite bold...

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Old
03-25-2013, 05:19 PM
  #845
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
No. Would you trade Jarome Iginla for Ben Maxwell or Mathieu Carle?

And since its a conditional pick included (could be a 3rd rounder), would you make the same trade, Iginla for Weber, Fortier or Ryan White?

I appreciate your attempt to find some relevance. And even in doing so, you changed the bar to fit your assertion by including the #3 pick in the first round for some twisted sort of equivalence.

Its easy to point out the prospects who become great players. Your forget its also just as easy to see the prospects who have become nothing more than scrubs and afterthoughts.
Ignoring your examples which don't consider whether the Flames will accept it for Iginla (there's a reason many doubt he'll even be dealt this deadline), I did admit it's an extreme example. However, you're missing the point.

Iginla may theoretically push this 2nd seed team to contender status for this season and fill a lot of team needs. Furthermore, Iggy can re-sign and be on the team for another year or two. Galchenyuk may not reach his potential for another few years. Yet not many people who're in the 'go for it' camp will pull the trigger. The future does matter. Galchenyuk upside is worth keeping regardless of how good 35 year old Iginla is and how much he'll help the team win now.

Shortsighted thinking isn't beneficial for this current Habs team - be it trading our current top prospects (Galchenyuk/Gallagher/Tinordi/Beaulieu)/1st rounders/2nd rounders - if it means to get an aging rental piece for the sole purpose of winning this season. 30 games doesn't make the team some sort of perennial contender to consider that type of move.

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Old
03-25-2013, 05:20 PM
  #846
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5 years, 7M$ per year for Semin???

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Old
03-25-2013, 05:26 PM
  #847
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
You cannot rewrite history with what ifs. For if we could, we could set up all sorts of scenarios and then end up with Max Pacioretty not getting injured that season and Jacques Martin having more faith in Benoit Pouliot.

All of that is a waste of time and effort. The reality is that we lost the series. Game 4 or Game 7 in OT is no different. The Bruins were more physical and we could not put them away after winning the first two games.

Fair enough regarding Halpern. History will show if this was the right or wrong move.
Game 4 or game 7 OT is no different? Really? On one hand, you're not even standing a chance and on the other one you have two teams on almost the exact same level. How is that even comparable?

Anyway, all that to say that everything does not always comes down to toughness like you assume in every of your arguments.

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Old
03-25-2013, 05:30 PM
  #848
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5 years, 7M$ per year for Semin???
another poor owner gets taken advantage of by a greedy player

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Old
03-25-2013, 05:34 PM
  #849
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Ignoring your examples which don't consider whether the Flames will accept it for Iginla (there's a reason many doubt he'll even be dealt this deadline), I did admit it's an extreme example. However, you're missing the point.

Iginla may theoretically push this 2nd seed team to contender status for this season and fill a lot of team needs. Furthermore, Iggy can re-sign and be on the team for another year or two. Galchenyuk may not reach his potential for another few years. Yet not many people who're in the 'go for it' camp will pull the trigger. The future does matter. Galchenyuk upside is worth keeping regardless of how good 35 year old Iginla is and how much he'll help the team win now.

Shortsighted thinking isn't beneficial for this current Habs team - be it trading our current top prospects (Galchenyuk/Gallagher/Tinordi/Beaulieu)/1st rounders/2nd rounders - if it means to get an aging rental piece for the sole purpose of winning this season. 30 games doesn't make the team some sort of perennial contender to consider that type of move.
I see the problem.

Nowhere did I ever suggest trading Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Tinordi, Beaulieu or 1st rounders.

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Old
03-25-2013, 05:40 PM
  #850
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another poor owner gets taken advantage of by a greedy player
Those poor owners signing those contracts at gunpoint

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