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Old
03-18-2013, 11:25 AM
  #126
DKH
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The talk on the radio I've heard is basically Dale speculating (and maybe he gets around the TD Garden) is something like a pick or two including Spooner, a first, and a player for Iginla.

The big rental I remember was Nashville for Forsberg- but they were desperate and I have a feeling that Chiarelli isn't. Nashville gave up the equivalent of 2 number one picks/prospects and a third- but so far none have really grabbed the bull by the horns, although Blum is starting to get it

Forsberg btw got hurt and although he played all 5 games in the first round loss, he probably should not have- but he knew what was at stake

that said, if the Bruins get Iginla or Alfredsson, I'm totally cool if they go on vacation and report back in May for the playoffs; I'd cringe if Boston gives up the motherload to get one of these franchise iconic players and they get hurt

not a bad gamble I guess

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03-18-2013, 11:26 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Ogrim View Post
The thought of trading Subban right now seems odd to me. Goalies usually take a long time to develop so his value has not had time to rise very much. I mean his value to the bruins is greater than to other teams with him beeing our round 1 pick.
IDK if that makes sense.
With Sveberg/Khudobin and Rask, knowing Khudobin may not be a Bruin next year, or Rask for that matter (although I fully expect he`ll be re-signed), Subban could be years away from even having a sniff of pipe time in Boston

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03-18-2013, 11:27 AM
  #128
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How about you have a peek at those old posts, while I`m sure you will be able to find more than one or two fans who were upset, the overwhelming majority of those here, hands down, saw this as a trade the Bruins won.
Are you talking about the Kaberle trade? If so, you could say we won it because the Bruins needed a dman and won the Cup that year, but just looking at the trade itself there's no way we won anything and I don't remember many fans saying we did. I would have been furious myself if we weren't a Cup contender. It felt like gross overpayment but I was fine with it because we overpaid for a piece we needed at the time and also I thought it was Chia's gift to Burke for the Kessel trade. Not that Chia absolutely had to give something back to Burke, but it felt like it was a way to make Burke look better to the public and keep him as a valuable trade partner.

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03-18-2013, 11:28 AM
  #129
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The only thing worse than overpaying in a trade is standing pat and watching your rival pass you by as they add a key piece.

Guess it really just comes down to what you are willing to pay for said player and how you value your prospects and assets

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03-18-2013, 11:29 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by DKH View Post
The talk on the radio I've heard is basically Dale speculating (and maybe he gets around the TD Garden) is something like a pick or two including Spooner, a first, and a player for Iginla.

The big rental I remember was Nashville for Forsberg- but they were desperate and I have a feeling that Chiarelli isn't. Nashville gave up the equivalent of 3 number one picks/prospects and a third- but so far none have really grabbed the bull by the horns, although Blum is starting to get it

Forsberg btw got hurt and although he played all 5 games in the first round loss, he probably should not have- but he knew what was at stake

that said, if the Bruins get Iginla or Alfredsson, I'm totally cool if they go on vacation and report back in May for the playoffs; I'd cringe if Boston gives up the motherload to get one of these franchise iconic players and they get hurt

to early to do the tabulation because Upshall is still active but hurt, and Blum is just getting into career but the Preds got 20 games out of Forsberg and the guys they gave up could hit well over a thousand (still no Weber or Suter's in that deal so the pain was minimal)
I`d still give em the pick, heck, the next 2 first rounders as I don`t see them being high picks, and a Krug or Caron.....course, this won`t get it done. As I stated in an earlier post, I can see it now, Spooner moving somewhere, being THE focal point on offense, especially the PP (anyone here remember when this team had a good one?)

It`d be a tough pill to swallow, even tougher if this team wins nothing

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03-18-2013, 11:33 AM
  #131
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I don't know. I have always said that if he takes a chance it does not work out, I'm good with that. You don't win 'em all. As long as it is not an outright stupid trade that was a blunder from the second it was executed, he has rope to play with. I'd rather have him take a chance and fail than to sit pat and watch other teams gain an upper hand (generally speaking, I mean).

If Iginla were to come here and the Bruins don't win a Cup, and Spooner has a nice career up there, I'll live (to pick a hypothetical). Again, whether Iginla is the ideal addition or Spooner is the right price to pay, etc., etc., is open to debate. But I want Chia to be bold.
as long as you can understand if next year Krejci gets hit with a Johnnnny Rocket and instead of bringing up a young offensive player ready to play top 9, we go with someone who might not be close to that.

It would be pretty entertaining around here if the Bruins replacement at center or forward for injury is not producing and Spooner playing regularly and well in Calgary centering Jonathan Drouin

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03-18-2013, 11:33 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by The Dangley One View Post
The only thing worse than overpaying in a trade is standing pat and watching your rival pass you by as they add a key piece.

Guess it really just comes down to what you are willing to pay for said player and how you value your prospects and assets

And it`s just that simple is it? Anyone here who thinks Chia never picks up his phone to contact other GM`s, never engages anyone in regards to making a significant aquisition is fooling themselves. Just because the final asking price for one team is A,B and C, doesn`t mean that the same asking price applies to every team.

If Chia is in a position of "need", price goes up and NO GM is out there to help another. On this very board, someone who is close to the game stated that Chia was close to securing not one, but two players from a Western Conference team who at that time, were out of a playoff spot, then went on a short win streak and that GM said no deal, he was then left with what we saw. Now, some will say that`s sitting on your hands.....

Dallas is the team I am referring to

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03-18-2013, 11:34 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by DKH View Post
as long as you can understand if next year Krejci gets hit with a Johnnnny Rocket and instead of bringing up a young offensive player ready to play top 9, we go with someone who might not be close to that.

It would be pretty entertaining around here if the Bruins replacement at center or forward for injury is not producing and Spooner playing regularly and well in Calgary centering Jonathan Drouin
Stop right there please.....and what are you saying? Whitfield not an acceptable replacement for DK

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03-18-2013, 11:46 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
With Sveberg/Khudobin and Rask, knowing Khudobin may not be a Bruin next year, or Rask for that matter (although I fully expect he`ll be re-signed), Subban could be years away from even having a sniff of pipe time in Boston
Didn't say I'm expecting him on the big team. I'm saying with a 1st round pick already invested he should get time to develop some value.

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03-18-2013, 11:46 AM
  #135
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And it`s just that simple is it? Anyone here who thinks Chia never picks up his phone to contact other GM`s, never engages anyone in regards to making a significant aquisition is fooling themselves. Just because the final asking price for one team is A,B and C, doesn`t mean that the same asking price applies to every team.

If Chia is in a position of "need", price goes up and NO GM is out there to help another. On this very board, someone who is close to the game stated that Chia was close to securing not one, but two players from a Western Conference team who at that time, were out of a playoff spot, then went on a short win streak and that GM said no deal, he was then left with what we saw. Now, some will say that`s sitting on your hands.....

Dallas is the team I am referring to
Yah it pretty much is that simple. Every team is looking to improve there team at the right price

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03-18-2013, 11:56 AM
  #136
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You only go by stats and want to know if you are missing something. Go to New Englang Hockey Journal site and read Kirk Leudeke on him in his recent Bruins assessment of Boston prospects. Kirk has a nice balance of very good judgement and hockey world connections. He cashes checks for this as well from a Scouting Service.
I never asked "am I missing something". I said "Obviously I am missing something". There's a big difference. I didn't mean to say he's a bad prospect. I was asking for more information about him because he's not one of the names you often hear around the NHL and as such I admittedly knew little about him.

I'll google your recommendation tonight! thanks

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03-18-2013, 12:21 PM
  #137
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All this talk of stats, age, projections, etc. has me almost wanting to undertake a large-scale data dump and run the numbers myself. Certainly don't agree with the "players peak at 24" thing, and I'd wager the numbers back it up.

As for Spooner, I haven't seen him play much but going just by the numbers, isn't it fair to say that KoKo should be the higher priority between the two? The kid lit up the OHL this year.
Players enter their peaks at about 22-24 and finish around 29,usually years 6-9 in the league. That's when experience,knowledge and physicality meet. You don't have to agree,every statistical sports nut in Canada has run the numbers ad nauseum. At the Quantum Sports consortium last year Brian Burke commented on receiving these studies in the mail regularly and Chiarelli agreed.

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03-18-2013, 12:22 PM
  #138
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I would be calling Buffalo

I would demand them to include Ott in any trade..... as well as a D man too (to finally put "Fernover" Ference out to pasture)

If you think it's hard to play the bruins with marchand and lucic skating around head/leg hunting...add Ott and the bruins are the toughest team to play against in the league.


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Old
03-18-2013, 12:24 PM
  #139
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lol all you want

I would be calling Buffalo

I would demand them to include Ott in any trade..... as well as a D man too (to finally put "Fernover" Ference out to pasture)

If you think it's hard to play the bruins with marchand and lucic skating around head/leg hunting...add Ott and the bruins are the toughest team to play against in the league.
Miller is ****ing garbage and has been for 2 years now.

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03-18-2013, 12:26 PM
  #140
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You`d be in the minority, especially if, gawd forbid, it`s an early exit, the boards would shut down with fans PO`d about an early exit, and Chia giving up what I suspect would be a hefty package to get Iggy. It`s easy for us to sit here now, when it hasn`t happened and say "I`d be fine with it", not saying you can`t do it, but I`ll wager you`d be in the minority
This place would go nuclear if they fell short of making the finals.

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03-18-2013, 12:29 PM
  #141
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Miller is ****ing garbage and has been for 2 years now.
bad team

fine,,,,,vancouver...luongo

but I still would get Ott from Buf

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03-18-2013, 12:31 PM
  #142
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And it`s just that simple is it? Anyone here who thinks Chia never picks up his phone to contact other GM`s, never engages anyone in regards to making a significant aquisition is fooling themselves. Just because the final asking price for one team is A,B and C, doesn`t mean that the same asking price applies to every team.

If Chia is in a position of "need", price goes up and NO GM is out there to help another. On this very board, someone who is close to the game stated that Chia was close to securing not one, but two players from a Western Conference team who at that time, were out of a playoff spot, then went on a short win streak and that GM said no deal, he was then left with what we saw. Now, some will say that`s sitting on your hands.....

Dallas is the team I am referring to
Yeah, well, as for this year, if we go for a Morrow over an Iginla, just for instance, and Pitt goes on to sign Iggy, lights out folks.

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Old
03-18-2013, 12:31 PM
  #143
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I don't think you are interpreting those numbers quite right. It is an average of thousands of players which you say. That means .43 PPG should be the expected return not just if you are lucky. There is a curve and Spooner would be at the top end of the curve because of the age he is doing it at. You would need to look at just the 20/21 year olds like Spooner's season this year not an average of every AHLer no matter what age.

Players who can put up the points Spooner is in his rookie season would fall on the higher end of that curve. We have at least 2 examples on the team in Krejci & Marchand who were only a couple months younger. Bobby Ryan was only 1.5 months younger for his 1st full AHL season.

Spooner falls much closer to these players than that average you cite. His upside should be 60 to 70 Pts in the NHL. Will he get there? I don't know, but you don't trade that talent for a rental. Iginla or whoever only slightly increases the B's odds of winning the cup. Maybe if the B's hadn't won a cup 2 years ago and it was Chara's last year, you make a bolder move. Or if Iginla was signed beyond this year at a rate we could afford. For a rental you use lesser prospects than Spooner and/or picks. Players like Caron, Sauve, Bartkowski, Warsofsky.
Not true,studies indicate that an 18 year old that puts up good numbers has a higher chance of success at the NHL level than a 21 year old who puts up the same numbers. The .43 conversion number from AHL-NHL considers players who do much worse and much better. The best prospects don't do much,if any AHL time or the number would be higher.

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03-18-2013, 12:32 PM
  #144
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Yeah, well, as for this year, if we go for a Morrow over an Iginla, just for instance, and Pitt goes on to sign Iggy, lights out folks.
At least we'll still have all our awesome prospect though, right?

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03-18-2013, 12:33 PM
  #145
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This place would go nuclear if they fell short of making the finals.
It's gone nuclear for alot less.

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03-18-2013, 12:33 PM
  #146
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bad team

fine,,,,,vancouver...luongo

but I still would get Ott from Buf
I think you're all alone on that island my friend.

I'd prefer Hartnell over Ott any day of the week.

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03-18-2013, 12:34 PM
  #147
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At least we'll still have all our awesome prospect though, right?
I'm ok with that; might just be Pitt's year regardless so yeah.

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03-18-2013, 12:35 PM
  #148
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I think you're all alone on that island my friend.

I'd prefer Hartnell over Ott any day of the week.
Ott would be cheaper....and just as dirty as Marchand/Lucic

Luongo is a stud...cap hit might be a killer...

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03-18-2013, 12:37 PM
  #149
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I'm ok with that; might just be Pitt's year regardless so yeah.
The Pens are beatable, if the Bruins face them in the playoffs I would say the Bruins win in 6 at most. They have bad D and shaky goal tending. I won't put too much stock into those 2 regular season games we just played on their home ice with travel and the 2nd half of back to backs.

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03-18-2013, 12:40 PM
  #150
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Our cap situation for next year isn't that good, so I really doubt Chiarelli will trade Spooner or Koko for a rental. Adding to that, I think Chia will not pay another premium price like he did before (Kaberle). IMO and again thinking about the cap, we should go after Morrow, Boyes, Jagr or Chimera to boost our offense. Streit, Robidas, Regehr would be good name, but Whitney, if cheap, would not be bad.

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