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Is the 2001 Devils the best team to not win the Cup?

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:44 PM
  #1
Mad Max
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Is the 2001 Devils the best team to not win the Cup?

Goals
Mogilny(43)
Elias(40)
Sykora(35)
Brylin(23)
Madden(23)
McKay(23)
Arnott(21)

Points
Elias(96)
Mogilny(83)
Sykora(81)
Gomez(63)
Arnott(55)
Brylin(52)
Rafalski(52)
Holik(50)

+/-
Elias(45)
Stevens(40)
Sykora(36)
Rafalski(36)
White(32)
Brylin(25)
Madden(24)
Arnott(23)


Gomez was the only minus on the entire team at -1. 2 players with 40+ goals and 3 with 35+, 3 guys with over 80 points, and 2 guys with at least +40 with 5 being more than +30. This team was so deep, offensively and defensively. Are they the best team to not go all the way?

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Old
03-17-2013, 07:08 PM
  #2
Big Phil
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They'd be up there but you'd have to take into account other great teams first.

1971 Bruins
1986 Oilers
1993 Penguins
1996 Red Wings

Then in prior years............
1930 Bruins (highest winning % in NHL history)
1945 Habs

The Devils in 2001 were a great team and many would believe - including me - that they were better than in 2000. They just faced a tougher team in the final in 2001 than in 2000.

I would rank the Devils with some of these teams:
1976 Flyers
1980 Flyers
1997 Avalanche
1990 Bruins

Still good company.

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Old
03-17-2013, 07:46 PM
  #3
King Forsberg
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I'd still say the 1987 Flyers.

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Old
03-17-2013, 07:49 PM
  #4
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84 Islanders or would they be considered aging by that point?

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Old
03-17-2013, 07:57 PM
  #5
Eisen
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What about some Hawks teams of the 60s? It's always said that they should have won more cups.


Last edited by Eisen: 03-17-2013 at 08:07 PM.
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Old
03-17-2013, 08:05 PM
  #6
Hardyvan123
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The 96 Red Wings were very good as were the 09 Red Wings, they were the 1st 2 to come to mind as were some of those mid 80's Flames teams that just couldn't get past Edmonton.

An extremely difficult question to answer and highly subjective

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Old
03-17-2013, 09:51 PM
  #7
mrhockey193195
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I'd say they were the best team since the 90s expansion, for sure. Some people will say the 1996 Wings, but that team was "inexperienced" in the sense that they hadn't won it all yet. The Devils just came off of the cup in 2000, and were back in the finals with mostly the same team. They were arguably the best offensive AND best defensive team in the entire league, they knew how to win it all, and they came within a game of doing so.

If we're going all time, it's hard to argue against the 1984 Islanders, or the 1976 Flyers, IMO.

EDIT: and obviously the 86 oilers...not sure how I left them out.


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Old
03-17-2013, 10:08 PM
  #8
pdd
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Originally Posted by mrhockey193195 View Post
I'd say they were the best team since the 90s expansion, for sure. Some people will say the 1996 Wings, but that team was "inexperienced" in the sense that they hadn't won it all yet. The Devils just came off of the cup in 2000, and were back in the finals with mostly the same team. They were arguably the best offensive AND best defensive team in the entire league, they knew how to win it all, and they came within a game of doing so.

If we're going all time, it's hard to argue against the 1984 Islanders, or the 1976 Flyers, IMO.
The 1996 Wings had just come off a Finals run, and followed it up with a league record for regular season wins. They had three defensemen (Vladimir Konstantinov, Paul Coffey, and Nicklas Lidstrom) in the top-six for Norris voting, their top two centers were Selke finalists with 107 (Sergei Fedorov, won the Selke) and 95 points (Steve Yzerman, 3rd). The goaltender (Chris Osgood) was second in Vezina voting and on the second all-star team, and posted a 39-6-5 record, and the backup (Mike Vernon) posted a 21-7-2 record.

That Detroit team was, put plainly, ridiculous. TBH, I think they win the 1997 Cup even if the Shanahan and Murphy deals aren't made.

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:27 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
I'd still say the 1987 Flyers.
Stacking them up against the 1996 Red Wings, let's see.

Howe is a Norris finalist and first-team All-Star. He has the advantage over Lidstrom (most comparable player), who is sixth in Norris voting in 1995-96.

However, Brad McCrimmon is Philadelphia's second-best defenseman and receives only two third-place votes. No other Philadelphia defensemen receive Norris votes. Vladimir Konstantinov, Detroit's most comparable to McCrimmon, finished fourth and was 2nd All-Star. Paul Coffey finished 5th for Detroit.

At forward, Sergei Fedorov and Steve Yzerman could both be argued among the league's top six or seven forwards. Philadelphia's Tim Kerr and Brian Propp had outside arguments for one of them (Propp, unless you're a Kerr fan) to possibly be in the top ten.

After that, Philadelphia's depth at forward starts with Peter Zezel and his 72 points in 71 games, against Igor Larionov's 71 points in 69 games.

There's not a good argument that Philly was better.

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Old
03-17-2013, 11:13 PM
  #10
vadim sharifijanov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Stacking them up against the 1996 Red Wings, let's see.

Howe is a Norris finalist and first-team All-Star. He has the advantage over Lidstrom (most comparable player), who is sixth in Norris voting in 1995-96.

However, Brad McCrimmon is Philadelphia's second-best defenseman and receives only two third-place votes. No other Philadelphia defensemen receive Norris votes. Vladimir Konstantinov, Detroit's most comparable to McCrimmon, finished fourth and was 2nd All-Star. Paul Coffey finished 5th for Detroit.

At forward, Sergei Fedorov and Steve Yzerman could both be argued among the league's top six or seven forwards. Philadelphia's Tim Kerr and Brian Propp had outside arguments for one of them (Propp, unless you're a Kerr fan) to possibly be in the top ten.

After that, Philadelphia's depth at forward starts with Peter Zezel and his 72 points in 71 games, against Igor Larionov's 71 points in 69 games.

There's not a good argument that Philly was better.
i agree with most of that, but '87 hextall > '96 osgood though. also, not to say the wings weren't, but those keenan flyers were truly greater than the sum of their parts.

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Old
03-18-2013, 06:37 AM
  #11
Psycho Papa Joe
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A few I recall:

1976 Flyers
1979 Isles
1980 Flyers
1986 Oilers
1985-87 Flyers
1989 Habs
1993 Pens
1996 Wings
1983 Bruins
1984 Isles


Last edited by Psycho Papa Joe: 03-18-2013 at 06:43 AM.
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Old
03-18-2013, 07:48 AM
  #12
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Yes they are

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:17 AM
  #13
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1921–22_Ottawa_Senators_season

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:30 AM
  #14
Supreme King
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The 1971 Bruins, 1986 Oilers and 1993 Penguins are the three best teams I have seen that did not win the Stanley Cup.

If I had to pick between the three, the '86 Oilers would probably be the best team I saw not to win it.

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03-18-2013, 09:42 AM
  #15
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I'd put the 86 Oilers on top and the 93 Pens as a very close 2nd.

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Old
03-18-2013, 10:06 AM
  #16
Stephen
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1993 Penguins, 1986 Oilers and 1996 Red Wings were way, way better teams.

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Old
03-18-2013, 10:52 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Stacking them up against the 1996 Red Wings, let's see.

Howe is a Norris finalist and first-team All-Star. He has the advantage over Lidstrom (most comparable player), who is sixth in Norris voting in 1995-96.

However, Brad McCrimmon is Philadelphia's second-best defenseman and receives only two third-place votes. No other Philadelphia defensemen receive Norris votes. Vladimir Konstantinov, Detroit's most comparable to McCrimmon, finished fourth and was 2nd All-Star. Paul Coffey finished 5th for Detroit.

At forward, Sergei Fedorov and Steve Yzerman could both be argued among the league's top six or seven forwards. Philadelphia's Tim Kerr and Brian Propp had outside arguments for one of them (Propp, unless you're a Kerr fan) to possibly be in the top ten.

After that, Philadelphia's depth at forward starts with Peter Zezel and his 72 points in 71 games, against Igor Larionov's 71 points in 69 games.

There's not a good argument that Philly was better.
It's like your world is painted in RED -o-o- Wings.


Anyhow, you skipped right over 1987 Vezina winning Ronnie Hextall whom also won the Conn Smythe for those playoffs on the losing team no less. Goaltending is the most important thing in the playoffs and Vernon or Osgood can not touch Hextall's jock.

You also skipped around one of the best power forwards to ever play in Rick Tocchet who played behind monster Tim Kerr, a young Scott Mellenby and Dave Brown. Why?

For someone that loves defense and hails Ferorov as a god, why would you forget about Dave Poulin? Is it because Dave Poulin's defense was on par defensively with Fedorov?

Basically, this tough as nails Flyers team wins this series while putting a softer European-centric team into the hospital. The Wings have no answer for the Flyers toughness, if Dave Brown isn't knocking heads around, than Tocchet, Kerrr and Mellanby were.

While Howe and McCrimmon played most of the minutes, almost 30 each game, Crossman, Marsh and Samuelsson were no slouches. They are much better than old Ramsey, Rouse and Bergervin. I think I would give the overall to the Wings, that's a tough d-corp they had back then but it's close.

So

Goaltending Wings < Flyers
Forwards Wings < Flyers
Defense Wings = Flyers

Flyers win.

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Old
03-18-2013, 11:29 AM
  #18
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme King View Post
The 1971 Bruins, 1986 Oilers and 1993 Penguins are the three best teams I have seen that did not win the Stanley Cup.

If I had to pick between the three, the '86 Oilers would probably be the best team I saw not to win it.
These are the three I always come up with first, and agreed as far as the '86 Oilers "taking the cake". 2001 NJD have nothing on any of those squads, imo.

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Old
03-18-2013, 12:06 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
It's like your world is painted in RED -o-o- Wings.


Anyhow, you skipped right over 1987 Vezina winning Ronnie Hextall whom also won the Conn Smythe for those playoffs on the losing team no less. Goaltending is the most important thing in the playoffs and Vernon or Osgood can not touch Hextall's jock.

You also skipped around one of the best power forwards to ever play in Rick Tocchet who played behind monster Tim Kerr, a young Scott Mellenby and Dave Brown. Why?

For someone that loves defense and hails Ferorov as a god, why would you forget about Dave Poulin? Is it because Dave Poulin's defense was on par defensively with Fedorov?

Basically, this tough as nails Flyers team wins this series while putting a softer European-centric team into the hospital. The Wings have no answer for the Flyers toughness, if Dave Brown isn't knocking heads around, than Tocchet, Kerrr and Mellanby were.

While Howe and McCrimmon played most of the minutes, almost 30 each game, Crossman, Marsh and Samuelsson were no slouches. They are much better than old Ramsey, Rouse and Bergervin. I think I would give the overall to the Wings, that's a tough d-corp they had back then but it's close.

So

Goaltending Wings < Flyers
Forwards Wings < Flyers
Defense Wings = Flyers

Flyers win.
The 87 Flyers were a very good team but ultimately they didn't have the high-end talent of the Wings as evidenced by the fact that Mark Howe is the only Hall of Famer (and a relatively marginal one at that) on that team.

As biased as eva unit zero was, your post is borderline trolling with some of the choice of words in there.

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Old
03-18-2013, 12:24 PM
  #20
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The 86 Oilers and 93 Wings were the best I've seen that didn't win the cup. The Devils were certainly a great team though, and my pick to win that year if I remember correctly.

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03-18-2013, 12:29 PM
  #21
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I think the 1929-30 Bruins (previously mentioned by Big Phil) warrant a bit more.

Besides their record .875 point percentage (38-5-1 in 44 games), the Bruins had the following:
- Most goals in the league (179; 2nd place was 142)
- Fewest goals against in the league (98; 2nd place was 114)
- The most points in the league (77; 2nd place was 51)
- The two leading goal scorers in the league
- The 2nd and 3rd-leading assist men in the league
- 1st (Cooney Weiland) and 3rd (Dit Clapper) in points
- Lowest GAA by a goalie

Records against opponents were as follows
6-0-0 against Detroit
5-0-0 against Montreal (Canadiens)
3-1-0 against Montreal (Maroons)
3-1-0 against New York (Americans)
5-0-1 against New York (Rangers)
4-0-0 against Ottawa
6-0-0 against Pittsburgh
4-0-0 against Toronto
3-3-0 against Chicago

...and then they lost 2-0 in the Cup Final to the Montreal Canadiens.

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Old
03-18-2013, 01:08 PM
  #22
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Recently, and it somewhat pains me to say it, the Canucks,

President trophy
Hart and Art Ross Winner
Selke
Jennings

Led the league many categories GF GA PP, I believe PK was second.

Unfortunately they got beat in the category that they weren't first in, ES goal differential, which of course the Bruins led the league in, and I think the fact that we had no clear cut Norris candidate.

Call me a homer if you must, but I'd take the Canucks over the 2001 Devils, if for nothing else than the fact that the Canucks are the only tam Brodeur has a losing record against.


Last edited by canuckster19: 03-18-2013 at 01:16 PM.
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Old
03-18-2013, 01:18 PM
  #23
Hoser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
Goals
Mogilny(43)
Elias(40)
Sykora(35)
Brylin(23)
Madden(23)
McKay(23)
Arnott(21)

Points
Elias(96)
Mogilny(83)
Sykora(81)
Gomez(63)
Arnott(55)
Brylin(52)
Rafalski(52)
Holik(50)

+/-
Elias(45)
Stevens(40)
Sykora(36)
Rafalski(36)
White(32)
Brylin(25)
Madden(24)
Arnott(23)


Gomez was the only minus on the entire team at -1. 2 players with 40+ goals and 3 with 35+, 3 guys with over 80 points, and 2 guys with at least +40 with 5 being more than +30. This team was so deep, offensively and defensively. Are they the best team to not go all the way?
O_o

No, not even close. Besides, the Avalanche were favourites to win. I don't know how you can argue that a team that didn't win the Presidents Trophy was "the best team to not go all the way".

As an counter-example the '87-'88 Flames, who won the Presidents Trophy and were beat in the division finals by the Oilers (who finished 6 pts behind in the regular season):

Goals
Nieuwendyk (51)
Loob (50)
Bullard (48)
Mullen (40)
Hull (26) *traded away during the season
MacInnis (25)
Suter (21)
Peplinski (20)

Points
Loob (106)
Bullard (100)
Nieuwendyk (92)
Suter (91)
Mullen (84)
MacInnis (83)
Tonelli (58)
Otto (52)
Peplinski (51)
Hull (50)*

+/-
McCrimmon (48)
Loob (41)
Suter (39)
Mullen (28)
Bullard (25)
Roberts (24)
Nieuwendyk (20)
Peplinski (20)

There were five players with minus ratings: Randy Bucyk (-1 in 2 GP), Bob Bodak (-2 in 3 GP), Brian Glynn (-2 in 67 GP), Steve Bozek (-3 in 26 GP; traded to the Blues with Hull) and Tim Hunter (-8 in 68 GP). Two players with 50 or more goals, four w/ >40, two guys with 100 or more points, four with >90, six w/ >80...


And I wouldn't argue the '87-'88 Flames were "the best team to not go all the way".

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Old
03-18-2013, 01:50 PM
  #24
Chukcha
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This is the payment for their 1995 win. That Devils team probably was the worst one to win the Cup ever.

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Old
03-18-2013, 02:10 PM
  #25
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Was it the '71 Bruins that had 7 of the league's top 10 scorers? Or was that one of the two Bruin teams that won from that era?

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