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Is the 2001 Devils the best team to not win the Cup?

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Old
03-18-2013, 03:11 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
The 87 Flyers were a very good team but ultimately they didn't have the high-end talent of the Wings as evidenced by the fact that Mark Howe is the only Hall of Famer (and a relatively marginal one at that) on that team.

As biased as eva unit zero was, your post is borderline trolling with some of the choice of words in there.
Borderline is true however, that Flyer team is better than that paper overvalued Red Wing team

Hextall (won the Vezina and Conn Smythe 1987), Propp, Kerr, Howe, Tocchett, Poulin (won the Selke 1987) is not high end talent?

And that Philly team was tough and I personally do not think the Wings could have dealt with that kind of toughness over a 7 game series, the Flyers would have beat them down.

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03-18-2013, 03:22 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
Borderline is true however, that Flyer team is better than that paper overvalued Red Wing team

Hextall (won the Vezina and Conn Smythe 1987), Propp, Kerr, Howe, Tocchett, Poulin (won the Selke 1987) is not high end talent?

And that Philly team was tough and I personally do not think the Wings could have dealt with that kind of toughness over a 7 game series, the Flyers would have beat them down.
We heard the same tiresome nonsense in 1997, and look how that series turns out.

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03-18-2013, 03:25 PM
  #28
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I think my vote would go for the '93 Penguins.

A star studded line-up led them to a 56 win regular season, which included a 17-game win streak at the end of the season as they went 17-0-1 in their final 18 games en route to a Presidents Trophy win.

Who would've thought the lowly Islanders would defeat them without Pierre Turgeon?

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03-18-2013, 03:27 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
We heard the same tiresome nonsense in 1997, and look how that series turns out.
That Flyers team was top heavy with no goaltending. It was Eric Lindros carrying his team to the finals, where he promptly stopped producing.

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03-18-2013, 03:39 PM
  #30
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96 wings.. its mind boggling to think they didnt win. But thats why games arent played on paper. Also since your putting in plus and minus didnt the russian five alone with out looking at the stats werent they all the top 5 of plus and minus that year? lol

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03-18-2013, 04:25 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Who would've thought the lowly Islanders would defeat them without Pierre Turgeon?
ewing theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by canuckster19 View Post
Recently, and it somewhat pains me to say it, the Canucks,

President trophy
Hart and Art Ross Winner
Selke
Jennings

Led the league many categories GF GA PP, I believe PK was second.

Unfortunately they got beat in the category that they weren't first in, ES goal differential, which of course the Bruins led the league in, and I think the fact that we had no clear cut Norris candidate.
i look back at that canucks team and i shake my head. not only did they have the actual selke winger, in a crazy 40 goal career year, but also the guy who probably should have won the selke if 1. he didn't miss the last ten games of the season, and 2. selke voters weren't preoccupied by offensive stats.

they were leading the league in GF, GA, PP%, and PK% before phoning in two games against last place edmonton (games 78 and 79) with nothing on the line, having already clinched the president's trophy.

two other things about the canucks team: they had seven guys who had scored 25 goals in a season, plus a little played rookie who this year is on pace for 34 goals over 82 games. that probably doesn't seem like such a huge deal to, say, flames fans, who had seven former and/or future 50 goal scorers on their '88 team, but that's scoring depth the canucks had never had before (or since).

and depth on D: six defensemen who were legitimate top three guys, and arguably four first pair calibre, all healthy to start the playoffs. sure, AV destroyed ballard's confidence, but his record before vancouver (and, i'm sure we'll see, after) shows that a top six of edler/ehrhoff, hamhuis/bieksa, and ballard/salo is remarkable. again, probably doesn't mean much to fans of teams who won the cup with horton, brewer, stanley, hillman, and baun, but that should have been a perfect storm year here in vancouver. should have... (sigh)


speaking of which, in retrospect what amazes me most about that '88 flames team had three future conn smythe winners all at or close to their peaks, which is pretty nuts for a team that only won one cup.

but on paper, i think you have to go with the '71 bruins (only counting modern teams).

goals: #1, 2, 4, 8, 16
assists: #1 through 6, 14
points: #1 through 4, 7 through 9
+/-: #1-6, 9-13, 16, 20

4 first team all-stars, and the hart, pearson, art ross, and norris winners

plus the (admittedly very low rung) hall of fame goalie who would won cup the year before and after

they set records for most wins, most points in the standings, shattered the record for most goals by a team by almost 100, espo destroyed the records for most goals and points in a season by a single player (by 18 and 26, respectively) and orr broke 100 assists (beating his own record by 15). if you don't count totals by bruins players, orr broke the assist record by 35 (mikita), and espo broke the points record by 45 (hull).

the '93 pens were a hell of a team (that win streak after mario returned from cancer treatment-- i think most of us were ready to just hand mario the cup at the end of the regular season). and the '86 oilers even moreso. but if not for dryden, i think we'd be talking about the '71 bruins as the greatest single-season team of all time.


Last edited by vadim sharifijanov: 03-18-2013 at 04:35 PM.
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Old
03-18-2013, 05:52 PM
  #32
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Was it the '71 Bruins that had 7 of the league's top 10 scorers? Or was that one of the two Bruin teams that won from that era?
Seven of the top 11, technically. Fred Stanfield had 76 points, tied for ninth with Jean Beliveau and Dave Keon, but Keon had 38 goals and Beliveau had 25 to Stanfield's 24.

But, yeah, the top scorers that year were Phil Esposito, Bobby Orr, Johnny Bucyk, Ken Hodge, Bobby Hull, Norm Ullman, Wayne Cashman, John McKenzie, Keon, Beliveau and Stanfield.

Boston finished first overall with 121 pts; the Rangers were second with 109, Black Hawks third with 107 and Canadiens fourth with 97. The Canadiens upset the Bruins in the first round and Hawks in the final to win the Stanley Cup.

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03-18-2013, 07:34 PM
  #33
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You could almost give a nod to the 1974 Bruins as well. By far the highest scoring team in the NHL. Had the top 4 scorers in the NHL. Even the Oilers only had 3/4 at their best. Gilles Gilbert was a good goalie, but this team was sorely missing Cheevers and perhaps the series against Philly is different.

Oh and nothing against the 1987 Flyers, but the Wings of 1996 wouldn't have lost to them. Yes I know they took the Oilers to Game 7 that year but they played over their heads and I honestly think the Flyers team of 1985 was better. The thing with the Flyers is that they never had a game breaker in a tight game.

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03-18-2013, 08:27 PM
  #34
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I'll be a homer and say that both DRW 1996 and 2003 losses were simply devastating. Those lineups should have had won it all. Basically, between 1995 and 2003 the Wings were Brodeur, Roy, and Giguere away from 6-7 Cups. Other than in 2001, when they were decimated by injuries.

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03-18-2013, 08:39 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by pnep View Post
A 14-8-2 team?

Some classic names on that team to be sure though.

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03-18-2013, 08:42 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
The 87 Flyers were a very good team but ultimately they didn't have the high-end talent of the Wings as evidenced by the fact that Mark Howe is the only Hall of Famer (and a relatively marginal one at that) on that team.

As biased as eva unit zero was, your post is borderline trolling with some of the choice of words in there.
I'll 2nd that, it's highly unlikely that the Philly team could compete with that Det 96 team or would be viewed the same way against their peers.

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03-18-2013, 08:46 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuckster19 View Post
Recently, and it somewhat pains me to say it, the Canucks,

President trophy
Hart and Art Ross Winner
Selke
Jennings

Led the league many categories GF GA PP, I believe PK was second.

Unfortunately they got beat in the category that they weren't first in, ES goal differential, which of course the Bruins led the league in, and I think the fact that we had no clear cut Norris candidate.

Call me a homer if you must, but I'd take the Canucks over the 2001 Devils, if for nothing else than the fact that the Canucks are the only tam Brodeur has a losing record against.
I doubt it pained you as much to say it as it was for me to read it.

The way the Canucks lost in that final to Boston , and almost in the 1st round against Chicago, is not that of a winner plain and simple.

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03-18-2013, 08:58 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
I doubt it pained you as much to say it as it was for me to read it.

The way the Canucks lost in that final to Boston , and almost in the 1st round against Chicago, is not that of a winner plain and simple.
No shame in going to 7 against your rivals - especially when they're the defending champions. The Canucks aren't exactly my answer to the question (1971 Bruins), but they're not out of place in the discussion for going the distance with Chicago any more than 1987 Philadelphia (New York), 1996 Detroit (St. Louis), or 2001 New Jersey (Toronto). The fact that the Canucks won three playoff rounds definitely works in their favor in this discussion, since we've only had four-round playoffs in the 1980s-2010s.

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03-18-2013, 09:03 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
I'll be a homer and say that both DRW 1996 and 2003 losses were simply devastating. Those lineups should have had won it all. Basically, between 1995 and 2003 the Wings were Brodeur, Roy, and Giguere away from 6-7 Cups. Other than in 2001, when they were decimated by injuries.
Attributing the 1995 loss to Brodeur is a little disingenuous - the Wings were outshot in every game and outscored 16-7 in aggregate.

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03-18-2013, 10:07 PM
  #40
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I'll throw in the 74-75 Habs. They had a great regular season and I believe set a record for road unbeaten streak. They lost in the semi-finals to the Sabres, even though they outscored them. This was Dryden's first year back from a year off. They won the cup the next year with basically the same lineup minus Richard, who retired. More than anything, I think it was that the core of that team just wasn't seasoned enough to make a cup run.

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03-19-2013, 03:09 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Master_Of_Districts View Post
Attributing the 1995 loss to Brodeur is a little disingenuous - the Wings were outshot in every game and outscored 16-7 in aggregate.
Heh, seriously. Brodeur wasn't even the MVP of the finals IMO, Scott Stevens was. He was great before the hit on Kozlov, but that and the aftermath effectively ended the Red Wings' Cup hopes.

As for the main question, if you mean the best team "ever" to not win the Cup, it would have to be one of the Original 6 teams back when all the best players were concentrated on so few teams. Probably Monttreal or Detroit when the dynasties went one right into the other.

Post-expansion? Maybe the 1983 Oilers or 1984 Islandners when the teams did their changing of the guard.

Post-dynasties? 1996 Red Wings are an easy choice, but the 2001 Devils are definitely up there.

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03-19-2013, 07:22 AM
  #42
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Heh, seriously. Brodeur wasn't even the MVP of the finals IMO, Scott Stevens was. He was great before the hit on Kozlov, but that and the aftermath effectively ended the Red Wings' Cup hopes.

As for the main question, if you mean the best team "ever" to not win the Cup, it would have to be one of the Original 6 teams back when all the best players were concentrated on so few teams. Probably Monttreal or Detroit when the dynasties went one right into the other.

Post-expansion? Maybe the 1983 Oilers or 1984 Islandners when the teams did their changing of the guard.

Post-dynasties? 1996 Red Wings are an easy choice, but the 2001 Devils are definitely up there.
Claude Lemieux won that Conn Smythe. But, yeah it wasn't all Brodeur. The Red Wings had no answer for the Devils D that year and the Devils were able to counter.

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03-19-2013, 11:36 AM
  #43
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This is why I said "96 and 03 Wings." 95 Wings were still finding their system and their winning ways. In 96 and 03 there was no excuse.

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03-19-2013, 12:44 PM
  #44
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This is why I said "96 and 03 Wings." 95 Wings were still finding their system and their winning ways. In 96 and 03 there was no excuse.
1996 Red Wings got cold at the wrong time. Struggling to put away the Jets and dropping three-straight to the Blues is not the right way to enter a series against a red-hot Joe Sakic and the grizzly bear in the Colorado net that Detroit had been poking with a stick.

2003? Can't beat a goaltender who doesn't lose overtime games in an entire run.

How about the 1999 Detroit Red Wings? Not the best regular season team, but 7 HOFers and some marquee rentals in Samuelsson, Clark, and Ranford. Coming off of two-consecutive Stanley Cups, they opened the playoffs with six-straight wins before dropping four-straight to get eliminated. Might have been Yzerman's and Shanahan's best playoffs, but the team hit the wall hard - both offensively and defensively:

Four Playoff Losses
Team Save Percentage: .838 (98/117)
Opposition Save Percentage: .954 (146/153)

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03-19-2013, 02:43 PM
  #45
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That's right, Roy and Giggy.

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03-19-2013, 03:15 PM
  #46
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That's right, Roy and Giggy.

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03-19-2013, 07:20 PM
  #47
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61/62 Canadiens?

Led the league by 13 points (42-14-14).

Jacques Plante won Hart Trophy.

Led the league in goals for & goals against handily.

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03-20-2013, 11:28 AM
  #48
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1992-93 Penguins, easily.

**** the Islanders.

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03-20-2013, 04:36 PM
  #49
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A 14-8-2 team?

Some classic names on that team to be sure though.
Most importantly they were right in the middle of 3 Cups in 4 years. This was the one loser year.

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03-21-2013, 10:48 AM
  #50
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09/10 caps hands down. that was a peak of the capitals franchise.

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