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The Armchair GM Thread - XXXVI

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Old
03-22-2013, 10:30 AM
  #476
Nuckles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Cee View Post
Well, my implication in what I said is not that it is "all or nothing" "skill vs 'no skill'". What I am saying if we hope to upgrade over Schroeder in the 3rd line position, which I think we do, we have to give something valuable.

Our roster assets are either overpaid, injury prove or pending UFAs. This is not going to get the job done in upgrading on the 3rd line centre. I don't really feel like parting with Jensen or Kassian and I am sure I am with the majority on this. That makes our first round pick and Schroeder our only two assets that would make a GM pause and think about making a trade for an upgrade. Again, you have to give something to get something.

I get the feeling, and I am not saying necessarily you, but generally speaking fans in this forum expect us to get a valuable 3rd line centre which is a hot commodity in the NHL and not give up anything valuable for him. I don't envy Gillis if he is really tasked with this expectation from the fanbase at large.
Luongo/Schneider say hi.

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Old
03-22-2013, 10:33 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Sorry, to take that line of reasoning further....but if Kesler were healthy, I wouldn't want a guy like Ebbett anywhere near this team in order to keep him "fresh" in case Kesler might get hurt again (which is always a likely possibility with him it seems).


Don't take my word for it - read every GDT up to Ballard's first scratch this season.

See, people just keep glossing over what I am saying! Lol.

Ballard is the 6th dman, he is not the 2nd line centre. He is expendable because at this stage in his career he is not a very good defenseman; that's the bottom line. If he was a great hockey player we would not be having this conversation- he is the 6th dman. You see this at forward as well on teams all over the league depending on the team's situation. There is a guy who is prepared to come in to sub for injuries, and if injuries don't happen someone who is expendable also has to be scratched so they see some playing time.

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Old
03-22-2013, 10:37 AM
  #478
Barney Gumble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Cee View Post
See, people just keep glossing over what I am saying! Lol.

Ballard is the 6th dman, he is not the 2nd line centre. He is expendable because at this stage in his career he is not a very good defenseman; that's the bottom line. If he was a great hockey player we would not be having this conversation- he is the 6th dman. You see this at forward as well on teams all over the league depending on the team's situation. There is a guy who is prepared to come in to sub for injuries, and if injuries don't happen someone who is expendable also has to be scratched so they see some playing time.
Seems like you're not immune to that either eh?

So what do you do about his contract to make it go away? As I stated already in this thread - you do whatever you can to pump up his value (helps when his play wasn't Barker like either). You don't play "mind games" with him to destroy what little market value he has. Why tie the hands of the GM? Look at the big picture.

As for the 2nd line center bit - who gives a heck if 1st place is already sown up - we're not talking about putting Chris Levesque (sp?) in net to give Luongo a rest? IMHO, it is relevant. But I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree.

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Old
03-22-2013, 10:39 AM
  #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Cee View Post
Well, my implication in what I said is not that it is "all or nothing" "skill vs 'no skill'". What I am saying if we hope to upgrade over Schroeder in the 3rd line position, which I think we do, we have to give something valuable.

Our roster assets are either overpaid, injury prove or pending UFAs. This is not going to get the job done in upgrading on the 3rd line centre. I don't really feel like parting with Jensen or Kassian and I am sure I am with the majority on this. That makes our first round pick and Schroeder our only two assets that would make a GM pause and think about making a trade for an upgrade. Again, you have to give something to get something.

I get the feeling, and I am not saying necessarily you, but generally speaking fans in this forum expect us to get a valuable 3rd line centre which is a hot commodity in the NHL and not give up anything valuable for him. I don't envy Gillis if he is really tasked with this expectation from the fanbase at large.
I don't totally disagree with you about Schroeder, with one major qualifier. He has shown bona fide offensive upside in the past and if he continues to improve his game he could force the team to move Kesler to the wing, even as early as next year.

Maybe a big IF, but he is a very real young asset and there may be no sentiment from management to move him.

Given the kid's attitude and committment, he's a kid I'd like to see develop with us.

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Old
03-22-2013, 10:41 AM
  #480
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I say we get rid of one of the sedins, having two just seems redundant



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Old
03-22-2013, 10:49 AM
  #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
Luongo/Schneider say hi.
Ok, point taken but:

1. I don't believe for one minute Schneider is going anywhere.

2. Secondly, we have been trying to trade Luongo for almost a year, it has proven to be a very niche market. Sure we COULD find the right fit for an upgrade for 3rd line centre, but aren't we going to have to take the best deal we can get no matter what? I think it's a bit of a special case. I mean hey, ideal world I agree that Luongo for an upgrade on 3rd line C but we also have other needs too. We could use another top 6 forward and we could also use another top end prospect who is NHL ready.

Either way, we have to give something up to get something and we have precious few assets to trade that have real value and some real needs. I think since we are looking for a centre we have to consider the strong possibility another centre will have to be going the other way.

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03-22-2013, 10:55 AM
  #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawg1950 View Post
I don't totally disagree with you about Schroeder, with one major qualifier. He has shown bona fide offensive upside in the past and if he continues to improve his game he could force the team to move Kesler to the wing, even as early as next year.

Maybe a big IF, but he is a very real young asset and there may be no sentiment from management to move him.

Given the kid's attitude and committment, he's a kid I'd like to see develop with us.
Hey, I agree in at least some part.

Like I say, these things always end up being so black and white. I think Schroeder is nice bait as part of a deal to upgrade on a real need which is a 3rd line centre. I am saying we don't have much out there that we SHOULD be looking to trade that has value.

I am not saying I am against Schroeder, or I think he should be traded ASAP no matter what. I generally like what I see from him in his development this year, he looks like he is at least going to be a suitable NHL player for his career worst case scenario. I think we SHOULD keep him if we cannot find the perfect fit for our team and I like a lot about his game.

Just for clarification.

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03-22-2013, 11:06 AM
  #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Cee View Post
Hey, I agree in at least some part.

Like I say, these things always end up being so black and white. I think Schroeder is nice bait as part of a deal to upgrade on a real need which is a 3rd line centre. I am saying we don't have much out there that we SHOULD be looking to trade that has value.

I am not saying I am against Schroeder, or I think he should be traded ASAP no matter what. I generally like what I see from him in his development this year, he looks like he is at least going to be a suitable NHL player for his career worst case scenario. I think we SHOULD keep him if we cannot find the perfect fit for our team and I like a lot about his game.

Just for clarification.
I would rather move Ballard, Booth or try to get a 3C as part of a goalie deal before trading away Schroeder. We have little to no center depth as is and trading away a young offensively aware center prospect seems counterproductive in my opinion.

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Old
03-22-2013, 11:21 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by nonriotingcanucksfan View Post
I would rather move Ballard, Booth or try to get a 3C as part of a goalie deal before trading away Schroeder.
Little or zero chance of happening now (not he had a ton of value but at least we likely wouldn't have to take a garbage contract back in return).

Can either blame Gillis for not moving him out earlier (though at the time he was playing well on D - & he was one the few that was playing well) or AV for trying to mess with his head.

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Old
03-22-2013, 11:36 AM
  #485
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Little or zero chance of happening now (not he had a ton of value but at least we likely wouldn't have to take a garbage contract back in return).

Can either blame Gillis for not moving him out earlier (though at the time he was playing well on D - & he was one the few that was playing well) or AV for trying to mess with his head.
What are you talking about give Ballard a few more games and he could fill out anyone's top 9

I did think he played quite well, kind of shows you he'd be much more effective in a different D strategy.

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Old
03-22-2013, 11:50 AM
  #486
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Jeff Halpern's on waivers. He's a center ($700k) with a lot of experience. Given our dearth of options down the middle right now, think there's a chance the Canucks look at him?

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Old
03-22-2013, 11:59 AM
  #487
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
Jeff Halpern's on waivers. He's a center ($700k) with a lot of experience. Given our dearth of options down the middle right now, think there's a chance the Canucks look at him?
Much rather take a chance on Brian Lee waive the Troll.

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Old
03-22-2013, 01:28 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by The Kassian Train View Post
Much rather take a chance on Brian Lee waive the Troll.
That's a handsome looking hockey player right there.

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Old
03-22-2013, 02:10 PM
  #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
Jeff Halpern's on waivers. He's a center ($700k) with a lot of experience. Given our dearth of options down the middle right now, think there's a chance the Canucks look at him?
I don't think we will get a chance at him.

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Old
03-22-2013, 03:06 PM
  #490
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Canucks injuring opposing goaltenders to create Luongo trade market?

#conspiracy

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Old
03-22-2013, 03:19 PM
  #491
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Not gonna lie, tried to come up with a crazy proposal that would shakeup the team so I've decided on this:

To Van

Mike Green
Marcus Johansson
Filip Forsberg
Wsh 2013 1st Rd Pick

To Wsh

Roberto Luongo
Alex Edler
Van 2013 1st Rd Pick

I thought about changing Green to Carlson but thought Green might be more in the style of Vancouver's new Ehrhoff.

Just a crazy idea. Thoughts?

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Old
03-22-2013, 03:22 PM
  #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reds81 View Post
Not gonna lie, tried to come up with a crazy proposal that would shakeup the team so I've decided on this:

To Van

Mike Green
Marcus Johansson
Filip Forsberg
Wsh 2013 1st Rd Pick

To Wsh

Roberto Luongo
Alex Edler
Van 2013 1st Rd Pick

I thought about changing Green to Carlson but thought Green might be more in the style of Vancouver's new Ehrhoff.

Just a crazy idea. Thoughts?
IMO if we trade Edler (I wouldn't want to), we should get Carlson in return (RHS).

But we just signed Edler. I'd rather get him a good PMD partner who plays the right side. No easy task.

IMO Edler is more comfortable playing the 1B role with a rover, like he was with Ehrhoff.

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Old
03-22-2013, 03:30 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by Momesso View Post
IMO if we trade Edler (I wouldn't want to), we should get Carlson in return (RHS).

But we just signed Edler. I'd rather get him a good PMD partner who plays the right side. No easy task.

IMO Edler is more comfortable playing the 1B role with a rover, like he was with Ehrhoff.
That's a deal breaker. This is why we see very little trades.

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Old
03-22-2013, 03:52 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by Jay Cee View Post
Hey, I agree in at least some part.

Like I say, these things always end up being so black and white. I think Schroeder is nice bait as part of a deal to upgrade on a real need which is a 3rd line centre. I am saying we don't have much out there that we SHOULD be looking to trade that has value.

I am not saying I am against Schroeder, or I think he should be traded ASAP no matter what. I generally like what I see from him in his development this year, he looks like he is at least going to be a suitable NHL player for his career worst case scenario. I think we SHOULD keep him if we cannot find the perfect fit for our team and I like a lot about his game.

Just for clarification.
Got it. And, as always, if the right deal comes along, you make the move.

And then wait for about half of HF to start erupting...while the other half celebrates.

One year later, everyone changes sides.

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Old
03-22-2013, 03:54 PM
  #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reds81 View Post
Not gonna lie, tried to come up with a crazy proposal that would shakeup the team so I've decided on this:

To Van

Mike Green
Marcus Johansson
Filip Forsberg
Wsh 2013 1st Rd Pick

To Wsh

Roberto Luongo
Alex Edler
Van 2013 1st Rd Pick

I thought about changing Green to Carlson but thought Green might be more in the style of Vancouver's new Ehrhoff.

Just a crazy idea. Thoughts?
Yes to any proposal involving Green. His value is low right now and it wouldn't cost an arm and a leg to pry him out of DC. Green does what Ehrhoff did, but better.

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Old
03-22-2013, 04:15 PM
  #496
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^I would have interest in Green if it weren't for the cap dropping next year. I'd rather spend that 5.25 million on a scoring winger.

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Old
03-22-2013, 04:24 PM
  #497
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^I would have interest in Green if it weren't for the cap dropping next year. I'd rather spend that 5.25 million on a scoring winger.
The trouble is, it's not 5.25, it's 6.083 (Sedin Money). For a guy who has steadily dropped in production, can't defend at at $6m level etc.



Quote:
To Van

Mike Green
Marcus Johansson
Filip Forsberg
Wsh 2013 1st Rd Pick

To Wsh

Roberto Luongo
Alex Edler
Van 2013 1st Rd Pick
Not a fan of Johansson, feel he is overrated a ton on HF.

Edler is better than Green, and cheaper....what's the incentive for the swap? That they'll take Lu for Johansson and Forsberg?

Ribeiro gives us a bigger impact player now, which is what we want + Forsberg for the future.

Vancouver IMO is giving the two best players up, and not getting adequately compensated unless you think Washington holds onto a top 3 pick (with goaltending they will most certainly be better).

I hate the proposal reds81. I think it's really bad.

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Old
03-22-2013, 04:25 PM
  #498
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I don't see Washington being a player for Luongo any more. Holtby has been very good.

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Old
03-22-2013, 04:27 PM
  #499
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Edler + Schroeder
for
Couturier + Talbot + Philly 1st

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Old
03-22-2013, 04:28 PM
  #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
The trouble is, it's not 5.25, it's 6.083 (Sedin Money). For a guy who has steadily dropped in production, can't defend at at $6m level etc.




Wow always thought it was 5.25, my bad. Anyway wow that is fairly bad contract for Green despite being a serviceable player, there's no way he should be making Sedin money.

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