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Prospect Thread XVI

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03-27-2013, 10:35 AM
  #351
Bleach Clean
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
Would be sweet if we could land him. Certainly lots of talk about him and the Canucks. This next tweet is a bit depressing though:
Makes sense. The blue line is stacked. Would like to see Laganiere here, they could use him. Does anyone have a timeframe for his decision?

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03-27-2013, 11:00 AM
  #352
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Makes sense. The blue line is stacked. Would like to see Laganiere here, they could use him. Does anyone have a timeframe for his decision?
Could be as soon as this weekend by the looks of things. Depends on if his team loses or not.

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03-27-2013, 11:02 AM
  #353
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Ha! Hockey's Future shows Andrej Sustr as a Notable Prospect in our system.


But looking at our prospect lineup over the next several seasons the Canucks are going to get a lot bigger if we can develop some of these players. With Lain, Jensen, Archibald, Grenier, Labate and if we can add Laganiere to the mix, AV will have all the future grinders he'll ever want. I don't mean this in a bad way. Jensen, at this point looks to be a top 6 winger, but out of the rest, we should at least be able to develop a decent 3rd line centre and some role players.

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03-27-2013, 11:08 AM
  #354
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Makes sense. The blue line is stacked. Would like to see Laganiere here, they could use him. Does anyone have a timeframe for his decision?
Blue line isn't as stacked for next year if we trade or buyout Ballard. I doubt Corrado, McNally and Tommernes are NHL ready and Connauton's high risk game doesn't fit any better than Ballard's game for a bottom pairing guy in AV's system. Sauve's development looks to have stalled adn it's unlikely Barker re-signs since he has dressed for so few games this year. If we buyout or trade Ballard, we probably have to pickup another veteran defender on the cheap (and hopefully a RH shot).

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03-27-2013, 11:08 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
Would be sweet if we could land him. Certainly lots of talk about him and the Canucks. This next tweet is a bit depressing though:
Last one doesn't depress me at all. If these kids a) aren't willing to earn their spot, and b) not confident in their ability to steal ice time from Andrew Alberts, Keith Ballard, and Cam Barker, I don't like their NHL prospects anyways.

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03-27-2013, 11:11 AM
  #356
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Could be as soon as this weekend by the looks of things. Depends on if his team loses or not.
Yeah, they're not on a very good stretch, shut out in their last two games, and playing the second seed. (should play Beattie more imo )

Regarding the time frame once Yale is eliminated: How quickly would you accept a high paying job after four years of being a student?

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03-27-2013, 11:14 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
Blue line isn't as stacked for next year if we trade or buyout Ballard. I doubt Corrado, McNally and Tommernes are NHL ready and Connauton's high risk game doesn't fit any better than Ballard's game for a bottom pairing guy in AV's system. Sauve's development looks to have stalled adn it's unlikely Barker re-signs since he has dressed for so few games this year. If we buyout or trade Ballard, we probably have to pickup another veteran defender on the cheap (and hopefully a RH shot).
The team will still have 5 high quality NHL Dmen next year. Some other teams can't even claim they have 3, let alone 5. When faced with that reality, you can see why some prospects might view making the Canucks a bit more difficult than other, weaker teams.

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03-27-2013, 11:19 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
Would be sweet if we could land him. Certainly lots of talk about him and the Canucks. This next tweet is a bit depressing though:
How does that tweet about the blue line negatively affect Laganiere?

lighten up

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03-27-2013, 11:21 AM
  #359
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The team will still have 5 high quality NHL Dmen next year. Some other teams can't even claim they have 3, let alone 5. When faced with that reality, you can see why some prospects might view making the Canucks a bit more difficult than other, weaker teams.
but we have so much room for RHD

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03-27-2013, 11:27 AM
  #360
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Last one doesn't depress me at all. If these kids a) aren't willing to earn their spot, and b) not confident in their ability to steal ice time from Andrew Alberts, Keith Ballard, and Cam Barker, I don't like their NHL prospects anyways.
This is a fundamentally flawed opinion that displays a lack of perspective. Prospect free agents will always take into consideration the depth of teams pursuing this. This is a legitimate concern. Not all prospects develop linearly and as a result many college free agents bust. Therefore, for some college free agents they may only play in the NHL if the NHL team in question is thin in a particular position, and they may only get a year or two. Playing in the NHL for even a year, or possibly two years, would have a huge impact on their future financial well-being.

It is just such a dubious (and quite self-serving) suggestion that these players shouldn't take into consideration the depth of the teams pursuing them. I would argue this should be one of their primary considerations.

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03-27-2013, 11:28 AM
  #361
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How does that tweet about the blue line negatively affect Laganiere?

lighten up
I thought it was a little shot at J Schultz and that situation. It sounds like the Canucks are in the running for this kid.

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03-27-2013, 11:30 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
How does that tweet about the blue line negatively affect Laganiere?

lighten up
Maybe his comment about the last tweet had nothing to do with Laganiere, and he was simply bummed about our apparent disadvantage in landing college UFA defensemen?

Perhaps you should take your own advice.

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03-27-2013, 11:36 AM
  #363
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This is a fundamentally flawed opinion that displays a lack of perspective. Prospect free agents will always take into consideration the depth of teams pursuing this. This is a legitimate concern. Not all prospects develop linearly and as a result many college free agents bust. Therefore, for some college free agents they may only play in the NHL if the NHL team in question is thin in a particular position, and they may only get a year or two. Playing in the NHL for even a year, or possibly two years, would have a huge impact on their future financial well-being.

It is just such a dubious (and quite self-serving) suggestion that these players shouldn't take into consideration the depth of the teams pursuing them. I would argue this should be one of their primary considerations.
I would argue that all the significant free agent prospects that spent time in the minors have turned out to be better than the ones given a spot.

St.Louis 1 1/2 years in the AHL
Kunitz 2 years in the AHL
Purcell 1 1/2 years in the AHL

big busts given hand outs

Gilroy is now struggling to get 7/8th D time
Brunnstrom back in the league he belongs in
J.Schultz is not a bust but I would argue he'd benefit greatly by staying the AHL without his NHL buddies.

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Old
03-27-2013, 11:37 AM
  #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
How does that tweet about the blue line negatively affect Laganiere?

lighten up
It doesn't have anything to do with Laganiere, just a bit of a downer that prospect UFA defenders skip past a great team in Vancouver in favour of lesser teams is all.

EDIT: Was beaten to it by the people who clarified my point for me. I was worrying my sleep deprivation was kicking in already.

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03-27-2013, 11:54 AM
  #365
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I would argue that all the significant free agent prospects that spent time in the minors have turned out to be better than the ones given a spot.

St.Louis 1 1/2 years in the AHL
Kunitz 2 years in the AHL
Purcell 1 1/2 years in the AHL

big busts given hand outs

Gilroy is now struggling to get 7/8th D time
Brunnstrom back in the league he belongs in
J.Schultz is not a bust but I would argue he'd benefit greatly by staying the AHL without his NHL buddies.
But Brunnstrom and Gilroy may have busted anyway, even with time in the AHL. So my point is, they made the right decision, in that they made a lot of money in the short term. If, for example, Brunnstrom selected a team with a lot of depth and had to play in the minor in the short term, but then didn't develop and busted, he would have received a fraction of the compensation.

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03-27-2013, 11:54 AM
  #366
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Unheralded Christopher Tanev was able to make the team near instantly, you'd think that was a selling point.... with all the injuries this team has the opportunity is there

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03-27-2013, 12:01 PM
  #367
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Unheralded Christopher Tanev was able to make the team near instantly, you'd think that was a selling point.... with all the injuries this team has the opportunity is there
Yeah, then we sent him down the next year for half a season despite a lot of people penciling him into the lineup in the offseason.

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Old
03-27-2013, 12:02 PM
  #368
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Unheralded Christopher Tanev was able to make the team near instantly, you'd think that was a selling point.... with all the injuries this team has the opportunity is there
An excellent point. But apparently waving free ice-time on a terrible team in the guy's face is a bigger selling point than earning your keep on a good team.

Just seems a little backwards to me, is all, especially given how often these types of guys talk about making sacrifices to "play on a winning team".

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03-27-2013, 12:28 PM
  #369
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Ha! Hockey's Future shows Andrej Sustr as a Notable Prospect in our system.


But looking at our prospect lineup over the next several seasons the Canucks are going to get a lot bigger if we can develop some of these players. With Lain, Jensen, Archibald, Grenier, Labate and if we can add Laganiere to the mix, AV will have all the future grinders he'll ever want. I don't mean this in a bad way. Jensen, at this point looks to be a top 6 winger, but out of the rest, we should at least be able to develop a decent 3rd line centre and some role players.
As I've said before, I think Gillis is creating a future team of big, tough, grinding 35-50 point forwards. There isn't a surplus of high end skill where we draft, so maybe it's his intention to overwhelm opposition with size?

We also have Kassian, Mallet, and Gaunce in addition to the players you've listed above.

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03-27-2013, 12:31 PM
  #370
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Last one doesn't depress me at all. If these kids a) aren't willing to earn their spot, and b) not confident in their ability to steal ice time from Andrew Alberts, Keith Ballard, and Cam Barker, I don't like their NHL prospects anyways.
this is dumb. Why would you intentionally put obstacles in your way when some up and coming team is offerig you NHL minutes?

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03-27-2013, 12:35 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
An excellent point. But apparently waving free ice-time on a terrible team in the guy's face is a bigger selling point than earning your keep on a good team.

Just seems a little backwards to me, is all, especially given how often these types of guys talk about making sacrifices to "play on a winning team".
Well paying for potential is how the league works now. Everything is a little backwards.

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03-27-2013, 12:36 PM
  #372
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this is dumb. Why would you intentionally put obstacles in your way when some up and coming team is offerig you NHL minutes?
no you're dumb

If the idea is to get NHL minutes, sure sign with the team that's going to hand them to you....seemed to work for Gilroy

You aren't intentionally putting obstacles in your way, you're looking at a bigger picture.

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03-27-2013, 12:39 PM
  #373
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It depends what he wants. If he wants to go to a team where he has a chance to crack the bottom pairing, play in a first class organization and learn from some real great players then the Canucks should be on his radar as well as some other well run organizations.
If he wants immediate guaranteed playing time in an organization that may struggle for a while then he may choose to go elsewhere.

I don't think there is any one size fits all. Detroit has been successful signing some of these guys over the years and they are also a tough organization to walk right into a prominent role.


Last edited by vanwest: 03-27-2013 at 01:07 PM.
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Old
03-27-2013, 12:54 PM
  #374
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no you're dumb

If the idea is to get NHL minutes, sure sign with the team that's going to hand them to you....seemed to work for Gilroy

You aren't intentionally putting obstacles in your way, you're looking at a bigger picture.
For a college free agent, whose NHL career is extremely uncertain, the goal absolutely should be to get NHL minutes as soon as possible. There is no guarantee (in fact, the chances probably are not even great) if you sign with a deep team that you will eventually develop into a player that makes that team.

The irony of your post is that it is you who is not looking at the bigger picture. We are talking about peoples' lives and their future financial well being. It would be stupid to gamble the latter because in the long run it might work out better.

Gilroy absolutely doesn't prove your point, and in fact, seems to undermine it. It is a bad example in that it is totally irrelevant since he signed a deal that would pay him his NHL salary even if he was in the AHL. So really, he didn't have to care about the short term depth of the NYR at the time of signing - he was guaranteed that money.

But, assuming the Gilroy deal was relevant (and thus he wasn't guaranteed NHL dollars to play in the NHL) it still undermines your point. It does so because it shows how young college free agents often bust. Whether or not Gilroy would have busted had he played in the AHL first is a fair question. However, there still would have been significant chance he still busted. But, if he picked the AHL and busted (under this hypothetical) he would not have made much money in those years. But, if he went straight to the NHL, he would have made millions. Seems pretty obvious what the right and wrong decision was there, unless you are extremely risk averse and prefer gambling with millions of dollars at stake.

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03-27-2013, 01:14 PM
  #375
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making 3 million dollars with a 50% chance of failure is a hell of a lot smarter than $300,000 with a 40% chance of failure

the difference in value between an nhl player and an ahl player is an order of magnitude. to make it worthwhile to go to the ahl first you would have to assess that there is also an order of magnitude of difference in your chances of becoming an nhl regular, which would be an amazing find. if you could prove this, you'd probably get hired overnight by an nhl team that needs other miracle math done

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