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Who wants to trade down to the Flyers?

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Old
04-06-2005, 11:13 PM
  #1
mercury
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Who wants to trade down to the Flyers?

It's no secret that Bobby Clarke would like to select Bobby Ryan in the draft, whenever it happens. By most accounts, the Flyers would need to move up to approximately #4 to guarantee Ryan being on the board. What would it take to get up there? Columbus fans, that's your pick, so I'd love to hear from you especially.

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04-06-2005, 11:17 PM
  #2
sunb
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A Michael Handzus + 1st Rounder would be a very tempting deal for the Bluejackets. If the BJ's are still unsatisfied, then Philly could definitely add in someone inconsequential such as John Slaney or another low pick.

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04-06-2005, 11:19 PM
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If thats really all it takes that would be great for the Flyers. They would have Carter Richards Roenick (if he comes back) and Primeau down the middle when hockey starts. I don't know if Columbus would do it though.

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04-06-2005, 11:22 PM
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Great minds must think alike, as I was guessing that Handzus and our first is what it would take. That's a lot, but I would entertain it. Perhaps Handzus, Flyers 2005 1st, and 2006 3rd for CBJ 2005 1st and 2006 2nd?

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04-06-2005, 11:23 PM
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We may re-sign Zhamnov yet, and keep Roenick at RW. I would cream my pants at Zhamnov-Carter-Primeau-Richards down the middle, with Roenick at RW and Sharp at LW (most likely).

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04-07-2005, 10:44 AM
  #6
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No offense but so many people are set in their minds that Carter is ready to step into a #2 center role. For a contending team, I would not want all my hope on a rookie for the #2 spot and contend. I think Carter should start on the #3 line and work his way up. If he doesn't perform well enough and doesn't translate his game well enough, Philyl all of a sudden (if trading Zues) is iffy down the middle.

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04-07-2005, 10:49 AM
  #7
Dr Love
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
No offense but so many people are set in their minds that Carter is ready to step into a #2 center role. For a contending team, I would not want all my hope on a rookie for the #2 spot and contend. I think Carter should start on the #3 line and work his way up. If he doesn't perform well enough and doesn't translate his game well enough, Philyl all of a sudden (if trading Zues) is iffy down the middle.
Hitchcock rotates his lines around so much that it's not much of an issue. Primeau's line might get the majority of minutes one night, and then Roenick's the next, depending on the matchup. Assuming Carter centers a line, it wouldn't be a 'third line' per se, but could be third in ice time.

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04-07-2005, 11:00 AM
  #8
JimEIV
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Doesn't seem worth it?


The Flyers will be picking in the Low 20's and they want to move up 25 spots, for Handzus?

Handzus + I assume your talking about Philadelphias next years first rounder + a flip/flop of drafting postion???


Doesn't seem worth it at all. A known top 5 picks is worth a heck of lot more than Handzus and a high 20 overall pick. If I were the BJ's GM, I'd immediately ask for Pitkanen for my #4 overall.

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04-07-2005, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV
Doesn't seem worth it?


The Flyers will be picking in the Low 20's and they want to move up 25 spots, for Handzus?

Handzus + I assume your talking about Philadelphias next years first rounder + a flip/flop of drafting postion???


Doesn't seem worth it at all. A known top 5 picks is worth a heck of lot more than Handzus and a high 20 overall pick. If I were the BJ's GM, I'd immediately ask for Pitkanen for my #4 overall.
Then there's no way the Flyers give up possibly the best defensive prospect in the game for a unproven draft pick.

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04-07-2005, 11:08 AM
  #10
JimEIV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfan 32
Then there's no way the Flyers give up possibly the best defensive prospect in the game for a unproven draft pick.

I think moving up 20+ spots is just an absurd idea

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04-07-2005, 11:10 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
No offense but so many people are set in their minds that Carter is ready to step into a #2 center role. For a contending team, I would not want all my hope on a rookie for the #2 spot and contend. I think Carter should start on the #3 line and work his way up. If he doesn't perform well enough and doesn't translate his game well enough, Philyl all of a sudden (if trading Zues) is iffy down the middle.
Why not let Carter spend a year in the AHL? It wont hurt his development, instead of tossing him to the sharks and expecting him to swim in the NHL.

It is very hard to make the jump from the CHL to the NHL. While Carter may be one of the top C prospects in the game, he may have a difficult time getting used to the speed and size of the NHL. Take it in steps.

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04-07-2005, 11:12 AM
  #12
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Dr. Love, my sentiments exactly. Primeau's shutdown line is the "3rd line" but were often 1st or 2nd in ice time.

JimEIV, you don't think Michal Handzus is worth a low 1st round draft pick? Because that is basically what you are saying. According to the mock draft being done in the Prospects Board, the Flyers would have the 24th pick in the 2005 draft. Usually, it takes either 2 lower first round picks, or one lower first round pick and one impact player to move up the 20 spots or so we'd need to move. You don't think Handzus is approximately worth a #20-25 overall pick in a decent, but top-heavy draft?

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04-07-2005, 11:15 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV
I think moving up 20+ spots is just an absurd idea
Trading Pitkanen is also pretty absurd so I think that Handzus and 1st round pick is the best you could get.

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04-07-2005, 11:18 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
A Michael Handzus + 1st Rounder would be a very tempting deal for the Bluejackets. If the BJ's are still unsatisfied, then Philly could definitely add in someone inconsequential such as John Slaney or another low pick.
There will be so many free agents on the market Columbus could pick up a Handzus type player for nothing and keep their pick.

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04-07-2005, 11:35 AM
  #15
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All I'm saying is a 28 overall (or something close) and Handzus is not worth a #4 overall

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04-07-2005, 11:37 AM
  #16
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Also, it makes no sense for Philly to trade up. They are a contender team. Why would they trade a player who is a big part of their team for a pick. If anything, it would be the opposite. Philly trades their #1 pick for a NHL player. Trading Zues plus a pick for another pick, is a step backwards from winning the cup.

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04-07-2005, 11:40 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
Philly trades their #1 pick for a NHL player. Trading Zues plus a pick for another pick, is a step backwards from winning the cup.
Did you think that about the Pitkanen trade?

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Old
04-07-2005, 11:45 AM
  #18
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I'd rather trade Roenick than Handzus in this situation.

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04-07-2005, 11:50 AM
  #19
JimEIV
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With a top 5 you get (in most cases) a sure fire NHL player. With a 25-30 pick you are rolling the dice....

1990
1 Quebec Owen Nolan R Cornwall Royals
2 Vancouver Petr Nedved L Seattle Thunderbirds
3 Detroit Keith Primeau C Niagara-Falls Thunder
4 Philadelphia Mike Ricci C Peterborough Petes
5 Pittsburgh Jaromir Jagr R

25 Philadelphia Chris Simon L Ottawa 67's
26 Calgary Nicolas Perreault D Hawkesbury
27 NY Islanders Chris Taylor C London Knights
28 Los Angeles Brandy Semchuk R Canadian National Team
29 New Jersey Chris Gotziaman R Roseau H.S.
30 Washington Rod Pasma D


1991
1 Quebec Eric Lindros C Oshawa Generals
2 San Jose Pat Falloon R Spokane Chiefs
3 New Jersey Scott Niedermayer D Kamloops Blazers
4 NY Islanders Scott Lachance D Boston University
5 Winnipeg Aaron Ward D U. of Michigan


25 Washington Eric Lavigne D Hull Olympiques
26 NY Islanders Zigmund Palffy R Nitra
27 St. Louis Steve Staios R Niagara-Falls Thunder
28 Mtl. Canadiens Jim Campbell R Northwood Prep
29 Vancouver Jassen Cullimore D Peterborough Petes
30 San Jose Sandis Ozolinsh D Dynamo Riga


1992
1 Tampa Bay Roman Hamrlik D Zlin ZPS HC
2 Ottawa Alexei Yashin C Dynamo Moscow
3 San Jose Mike Rathje D Medicine Hat Tigers
4 Quebec Todd Warriner L Windsor Spitfires
5 NY Islanders Darius Kasparaitis D Dynamo Moscow

25 Ottawa Chad Penney L North Bay Centennials
26 Tampa Bay Drew Bannister D Sault-Ste.-Marie
27 Winnipeg Boris Mironov D CSKA Moscow (Russia)
28 Quebec Paul Brousseau R Hull Olympiques
29 Quebec Tuomas Gronman D Tacoma Rockets
30 Calgary Chris O'Sullivan D Catholic Memorial H.S. (Mass.)

1993
1 Ottawa Alexandre Daigle R Victoriaville Tigres
2 Hartford Chris Pronger D Peterborough Petes
3 Tampa Bay Chris Gratton C Kingston Frontenacs
4 Anaheim Paul Kariya L U. of Maine (NCAA)
5 Florida Rob Niedermayer C Medicine Hat Tigers

25 Boston Kevyn Adams C Miami University
26 Pittsburgh Stefan Bergkvist D Leksands
27 Ottawa Radim Bicanek D Dukla Jihlava
28 San Jose Shean Donovan R Ottawa 67's
29 Tampa Bay Tyler Moss G Kingston Frontenacs
30 Anaheim Nikolai Tsulygin D Salavat (Russia)



1994

1 Florida Ed Jovanovski D Windsor Spitfires
2 Anaheim Oleg Tverdovsky D Krylja Sovetov
3 Ottawa Radek Bonk C Las-Vegas Thunder
4 Edmonton Jason Bonsignore C Niagara-Falls Thunder
5 Hartford Jeff O'Neill C Guelph Storm

25 New Jersey Vadim Sharifijanov L Ufa Salavat
26 NY Rangers Dan Cloutier G Sault-Ste.-Marie
27 Florida Rhett Warrener D Saskatoon Blades
28 Anaheim Johan Davidsson L HV71 Jonkoping
29 Ottawa Stanislav Neckar D Ceske Budejovice
30 Winnipeg Deron Quint D Seattle Thunderbirds

1995
1 Ottawa Bryan Berard D Detroit Jr. Red Wings
2 NY Islanders Wade Redden D Brandon Wheat Kings
3 Los Angeles Aki-Petteri Berg D TPS Jrs.
4 Anaheim Chad Kilger C Kingston Frontenacs
5 Tampa Bay Daymond Langkow C Tri-City Americans

25 Colorado Marc Denis G Chicoutimi Sagueneens
26 Detroit Maxim Kuznetsov D Dynamo Moscow
27 Ottawa Marc Moro D Kingston Frontenacs
28 NY Islanders Jan Hlavac L Sparta Praha
29 Anaheim Brian Wesenberg R Guelph Storm
30 Tampa Bay Mike McBain D Red Deer Rebels



1996
1 Ottawa Chris Phillips D Prince Albert Raiders
2 San Jose Andrei Zyuzin D Salavat Yulajev
3 NY Islanders J.P. Dumont R Val-d'Or Foreurs
4 Washington Alexandre Volchkov R Barrie Colts
5 Dallas Richard Jackman D Sault-Ste.-Marie Greyhounds

25 Colorado Peter Ratchuk D Shattuck St. Mary's
26 Detroit Jesse Wallin D Red Deer Rebels
27 Buffalo Cory Sarich D Saskatoon Blades
28 Pittsburgh Pavel Skrbek D Kladno Poldi
29 NY Islanders Dan LaCouture L Enfield Jr
30 Los Angeles Josh Green W Medicine Hat Tigers (WHL)

1997
1 Boston Joe Thornton C Sault-Ste.-Marie Greyhounds
2 San Jose Patrick Marleau C Seattle Thunderbirds
3 Los Angeles Olli Jokinen C HIFK Helsinki
4 NY Islanders Roberto Luongo G Val-d'Or Foreurs
5 NY Islanders Eric Brewer D Prince George Cougars

25 Dallas Brenden Morrow L Portland Winter Hawks
26 Colorado Kevin Grimes D Kingston Frontenacs
27 Boston Ben Clymer W U. of Minnesota
28 Carolina Brad DeFauw L U. of North Dakota
29 Los Angeles Scott Barney C Peterborough Petes
30 Philadelphia Jean-Marc Pelletier G Cornell University



1998
1 Tampa Bay Vincent Lecavalier C Rimouski Oceanic
2 Nashville David Legwand C Plymouth Whalers
3 San Jose Brad Stuart D Regina Pats
4 Vancouver Bryan Allen D Oshawa Generals
5 Anaheim Vitali Vishnevsky D Torpedo-2 Yaroslavl

25 Detroit Jiri Fischer D Hull Olympiques
26 New Jersey Mike Van Ryn D U. of Michigan
27 New Jersey Scott Gomez C Tri-City Americans
28 Colorado Ramzi Abid L Chicoutimi Sagueneens
29 San Jose Jonathan Cheechoo R Belleville Bulls
30 Florida Kyle Rossiter D Spokane Chiefs

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Old
04-07-2005, 11:56 AM
  #20
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I think if Zeus is traded, it will be for a physical D'man, BUT, I think people really underestimate Zeus, on a lesser team, I think he could really be a great player, can score and play defense.

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04-07-2005, 12:12 PM
  #21
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Great post by JimEIV! While it might be fair "value" wise, to me it's one of those cases where two nickel's don't make a dime.

I really like Handzus, but he's about the age where he will likely be an UFA under the next CBA. Also, CLM already has Marchant that fills a similiar role (not nearly the player, but role wise).

For me to give up a potential impact player (4th overall pick), I need to either be ready to make the next step and feel I can contend for a P/O spot, or I need to get a potential impact player back. TB "justified" the Fedetenko deal based on the first situation, but I don't think that CLM is there yet. They've got a VERY, VERY young team up front, a marginal (to be nice) blueline, and even adding Handzus they aren't a serious P/O contender IMO.

If I'm CLM, I'd start by asking for one of Carter/Richards/Pitkanen. If Clarke is real gung ho on Ryan, he might consider it. IMO, CLM has all the leverage in this cases, and they could demand some sort of "overpayment" to move that pick.

Clarke should also talk with the Hawks. They've got the 3rd pick overall (assuming something similiar to last years draft order), and I could potentially see them moving the pick for a very highly thought of young forward (JC, MR), as their blueline pipeline seems pretty deep right now.

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04-07-2005, 12:20 PM
  #22
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If I had a top 5 pick, I wouldn't be dealing it for a center like Handzus.

No offense to Handzus, he's a solid 2-way player, but he's not an impact star player in the league, which a top 5 pick can get you.

And teams picking in the top 5 are all in rebuilding modes - why would they deal a potential star, when they are rebuilding, for a guy who's not far from UFA status?

just doesn't add up IMO.... plus as someone's mentioned, the UFA market should be stacked this time around, so the value of guys like Handzus will be effected as such.

If Columbus wanted a Handzus like player, they could have made Conroy an offer... they didn't. And I don't think they should have, having Marchant - who they did pick up as a free agent, the year before.

And really same arguments where thrown around about Marchant after his year with the Oilers - a speedy center (which Handzus isn't), who plays a strong 2-way game, and his offense was coming together. But he didn't have nearly the same impact in Columbus... I think that Columbus would have learned from this, and won't be putting a lot of value on a guy like Handzus. Besides, there's no point, with Marchant under contract long term there (at a pretty high $ value).

Who else has a top 5 pick available? Chicago? Maybe the most realistic option as they seem to want to compete sooner than later, but I don't see them moving a top 5 pick either for a player like Handzus.

Frankly any team that has a need for a guy like Handzus would be much better off waiting for the free agency market, then to move a top 5 pick in a deep strong draft.

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04-07-2005, 12:21 PM
  #23
JimEIV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
Great post by JimEIV! While it might be fair "value" wise, to me it's one of those cases where two nickel's don't make a dime.

I really like Handzus, but he's about the age where he will likely be an UFA under the next CBA. Also, CLM already has Marchant that fills a similiar role (not nearly the player, but role wise).

For me to give up a potential impact player (4th overall pick), I need to either be ready to make the next step and feel I can contend for a P/O spot, or I need to get a potential impact player back. TB "justified" the Fedetenko deal based on the first situation, but I don't think that CLM is there yet. They've got a VERY, VERY young team up front, a marginal (to be nice) blueline, and even adding Handzus they aren't a serious P/O contender IMO.

If I'm CLM, I'd start by asking for one of Carter/Richards/Pitkanen. If Clarke is real gung ho on Ryan, he might consider it. IMO, CLM has all the leverage in this cases, and they could demand some sort of "overpayment" to move that pick.

Clarke should also talk with the Hawks. They've got the 3rd pick overall (assuming something similiar to last years draft order), and I could potentially see them moving the pick for a very highly thought of young forward (JC, MR), as their blueline pipeline seems pretty deep right now.

I think you just articulated what I was trying to say...Thanks

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04-07-2005, 12:23 PM
  #24
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CBJ fan here. Much as I like Handzus, he's not nearly enough to swap '05 picks with Philly. It's too far down, or you'd have to blow DMGM away. Plus, we've got a logjam at C. Pitkanen straight-up, maybe a package with Seidenberg.


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04-07-2005, 12:41 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV
All I'm saying is a 28 overall (or something close) and Handzus is not worth a #4 overall
agreed, then adding a 2nd on the bluejackets end on recieving and then adding a 3rd to go2 the flyers alongwith number 4 is just absurd as well..


if your gonna send away handzus, who could be at best there 2nd line centerman id assume, he's good for what 50 pts, and phillys 1st, could be someone decent.. for the number 4 pick... yea thats like doing handzus and a first for Ladd last year, would you do it, if im carolina i wouldnt..

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