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Old
03-21-2013, 01:36 AM
  #476
Taelin
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
You may have noticed that I tried to list players in order of skill.
I am well aware that he hasn't been good this year, but if we get desperate...
Raymond, Hansen and Booth are better than Stafford. I'm also a part-time Sabres fan, and watching him play is infuriating. The guy seems to float around half the time and not do anything.

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Old
03-21-2013, 02:14 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
Guess who's bored.
<---- this guy

So I made a list, feel free to add to it. Some guys are a lot more likely to be moved than others, but who knows.

Center:
Derek Roy (Dallas)
Mike Ribiero (Washington)
David Legwand (Nashville)
Derick Brassard (Columbus)
Marcel Goc (Florida)
Derek MacKenzie (Columbus)
Marty Reasoner (NY Islanders)

Top 6 winger:
Jarome Iginla (Calgary)
Martin St. Louis (Tampa)
Marian Gaborik (NY Rangers)
Jaromir Jagr (Dallas)
Tomas Fleischmann (Florida)
Teddy Purcell (Tampa)
Ales Hemsky (Edmonton)
Jussi Jokinen (Carolina)
Drew Stafford (Buffalo)

Defenseman:
Lubomir Visnovsky (NY Islanders)
Mark Streit (NY Islanders)
Stephane Robidas (Dallas)
Mike Weaver (Florida)
Jordan Leopold (Buffalo)
Adrian Aucoin (Columbus)
Ryan O'Byrne (Colorado)
Mike Weber (Buffalo)

You may notice that all the centers listed are left handed and that all the d-men listed have experience and are comfortable playing on the right side.
In addition to yours:

Centres: Mikhail Grabovski/Tyler Bozak, Frans Nielsen, Steve Ott, Marcus Johansson
Top-6 wingers: Jason Pominville, Alex Tanguay, Ray Whitney, Troy Brouwer
Defensemen: James Wisniewski, David Rundblad, JM Liles, Yannick Weber,

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Old
03-21-2013, 02:17 AM
  #478
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^IMO Alex Tanguay would be the perfect winger for Kesler. Don't know if the Flames move him to us though.

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03-21-2013, 02:20 AM
  #479
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I'd take Ott and if by some miracle the sens become sellers, I'd take Neil too.


profit?

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Old
03-21-2013, 02:29 AM
  #480
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I'm sure the Islanders would like to move Lubomir Visnovsky. That would be another left-hand shot though.

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Old
03-21-2013, 02:33 AM
  #481
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Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
I'm sure the Islanders would like to move Lubomir Visnovsky. That would be another left-hand shot though.
He does play the right side though.

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Old
03-21-2013, 02:38 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
I'm sure the Islanders would like to move Lubomir Visnovsky. That would be another left-hand shot though.
He's a RS dman though.

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Old
03-21-2013, 02:42 AM
  #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
I'm sure the Islanders would like to move Lubomir Visnovsky. That would be another left-hand shot though.
3 points back only in the East.. some of these teams will try to make the playoffs

Sellers imo
Tampa
Phi
Florida
Wsh
Buf
Nsh
Cgy
Col

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Old
03-21-2013, 02:46 AM
  #484
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Imagine if we could get one from each group..

Roy/Ott/Grabovski and Iginla/Gaborik/Jagr

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Burrows-Kesler-Iginla
Raymond-Grabovski-Hansen
Higgins-Lapierre-Weise

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Garrison
Ballard-Tanev

Schneider

That line up in the playoffs would be really strong. Obviously the combo's could be switched around and we may lose a roster player asides from Lou.. But still. Daym.

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Old
03-21-2013, 03:02 AM
  #485
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Originally Posted by keslerburrows View Post
Imagine if we could get one from each group..

Roy/Ott/Grabovski and Iginla/Gaborik/Jagr

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Burrows-Kesler-Iginla
Raymond-Grabovski-Hansen
Higgins-Lapierre-Weise

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Garrison
Ballard-Tanev

Schneider

That line up in the playoffs would be really strong. Obviously the combo's could be switched around and we may lose a roster player asides from Lou.. But still. Daym.
and no Schroeder.......so he just disappear from the lineup

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Old
03-21-2013, 03:16 AM
  #486
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Originally Posted by canuck4life16 View Post
and no Schroeder.......so he just disappear from the lineup
I think if we are acquiring a 3rd line C like Grabovski.. Schroeder will either be going back the other way or be sent in another deal. OR down in Chicago. But no he would not be in the lineup.

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Old
03-21-2013, 05:56 AM
  #487
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Mike Green to replace Ehrhoff. Get it done, Gillis.

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Old
03-21-2013, 07:13 AM
  #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp Kassian View Post
3 points back only in the East.. some of these teams will try to make the playoffs

Sellers imo
Tampa
Phi
Florida
Wsh
Buf
Nsh
Cgy
Col
Yeah, they are still in the playoff race, but they also acquired Thomas' dead cap space to allow them to move Visnovski and remain above the floor.

Right now, I'd say the only real sellers are the Panthers, and the Sabres are moving into that group. Tampa and Philly are still in the hunt, and the Flyers are too big money to go seller. If anything they will be buyers to try and salvage a playoff spot and some playoff revenue. Washington just went to the 2nd round last year with a similar line-up, I'm sure they aren't ready to give up yet.

Nashville is 4 points out, way too soon. Calgary ownership is allergic to the notion of a rebuild, as much as I'd like to see Iginla in a Canucks uniform. Colorado? Who knows what's going on with management there? Hard to say.

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Old
03-21-2013, 07:43 AM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Faulty threshold analysis? You're really overthinking this. If one player is better than the other for 8 out of 9 years you don't 'win' the deal if you get the guy that is better 10% of the time. I am not saying this will happen, I am saying how faulty this line of reasoning is. Never mind the fact Gillis apparently could have had Ott for Hodgson and turned it down.

The players cumulative impacts over the duration of their contracts/careers is much much more important than who holds more trade value in the end. This is just common sense.

Like I've said all along, Kassian has a very intriguing skillset and if that potential is reached it will be a win-win trade. To say I have no patience in this player is patently absurd. You gave me a hypothetical scenario and I answered it accordingly. Nothing more.


I would say that a "lack of patience" was the correct call by Tiranis here. I agreed with it. The reason isn't because you are impatient in general. I remember you backed Hodgson before he made it. But it does seem you don't carry that over for Kassian. It is selective. The "cumulative impacts" argument is another line of reasoning to illustrate that further. As is your very vocal stance in support of Hodgson in past Kassian threads. All told, the same leeway isn't there for Kassian, I would say.

The cumulative impact itself is subjective because who is "better" cannot easily be quantified.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Except Gillis apparently turned down Ott for Hodgson. Pretty much squashes your entire point.

Hodgson+. Point stands.

And it would have anyways, because the Roy/Ott trade was executed by two NHL GMs regardless.


Last edited by Bleach Clean: 03-21-2013 at 08:20 AM.
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Old
03-21-2013, 08:05 AM
  #490
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I'd be happy if Gillis was able to pull off the following minor moves:

Keith Ballard to Detroit for Ian White
Mason Raymond + Conditional 2nd + Andrew Alberts for Travis Hamonic

Line-up:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Kesler-Kassian
Booth-Schroeder-Hansen
Sestito-Lapierre-Weise

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Hamonic
Tanev-White
Barker

Luongo
Schneider

If we need more C depth or Winger depth, that's where the goalie deal can come through. We'll still need to make contract spaces available if one of our goalies are traded for a "multi-player for one" type of deal (hence the Hamonic deal). OR put Ian White back on forward

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Old
03-21-2013, 08:08 AM
  #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vector209 View Post
Mike Green to replace Ehrhoff. Get it done, Gillis.
Thinking Luongo + Ballard + pick for Ribeiro + Green + whichever backup they want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hall View Post
I'd be happy if Gillis was able to pull off the following minor moves:

Keith Ballard to Detroit for Ian White
Mason Raymond + Conditional 2nd + Andrew Alberts for Travis Hamonic
That would be a minor miracle, not a minor move.

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Old
03-21-2013, 08:17 AM
  #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hall View Post
I'd be happy if Gillis was able to pull off the following minor moves:

Keith Ballard to Detroit for Ian White
Mason Raymond + Conditional 2nd + Andrew Alberts for Travis Hamonic

Line-up:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Kesler-Kassian
Booth-Schroeder-Hansen
Sestito-Lapierre-Weise

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Hamonic
Tanev-White
Barker

Luongo
Schneider

If we need more C depth or Winger depth, that's where the goalie deal can come through. We'll still need to make contract spaces available if one of our goalies are traded for a "multi-player for one" type of deal (hence the Hamonic deal). OR put Ian White back on forward

It's Scott Hall!

Ballard for White "seems" an even swap, but Ballard is stronger and a much better skater. I feel that no matter what team he goes to, he's going to make the management here look stupid, but it's inevitable. Still though, I hope they can turn him into something better than Ian White.

VAN had a chance to sign White, but completely passed. I'm not sure how high they are on him... Still though, in FA, White and O'Byrne should be on the radar for this team.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:00 AM
  #493
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Originally Posted by Jay Cee View Post
To me it comes down to: Do you want to keep Kassian or Jensen or both or do you want to see a big move done at the deadline? That's what it comes down to to me. You can't say the Canucks need to make a big move without spending an asset that is worth something.

The Luongo deal would bring a pretty big deal and be sufficient enough help with some needs, but he is not going to bring back the type of calibre player he is for this year.
Gillis should call Nonis and try to do a 1 for 1 deal of Luongo for Kadri.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:02 AM
  #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hall View Post
I'd be happy if Gillis was able to pull off the following minor moves:

Keith Ballard to Detroit for Ian White
Mason Raymond + Conditional 2nd + Andrew Alberts for Travis Hamonic

Line-up:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Kesler-Kassian
Booth-Schroeder-Hansen
Sestito-Lapierre-Weise

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Hamonic
Tanev-White
Barker

Luongo
Schneider

If we need more C depth or Winger depth, that's where the goalie deal can come through. We'll still need to make contract spaces available if one of our goalies are traded for a "multi-player for one" type of deal (hence the Hamonic deal). OR put Ian White back on forward
I doubt they'd bite on that.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:09 AM
  #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hall View Post
I'd be happy if Gillis was able to pull off the following minor moves:

Keith Ballard to Detroit for Ian White
Mason Raymond + Conditional 2nd + Andrew Alberts for Travis Hamonic

Line-up:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Kesler-Kassian
Booth-Schroeder-Hansen
Sestito-Lapierre-Weise

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Hamonic
Tanev-White
Barker

Luongo
Schneider

If we need more C depth or Winger depth, that's where the goalie deal can come through. We'll still need to make contract spaces available if one of our goalies are traded for a "multi-player for one" type of deal (hence the Hamonic deal). OR put Ian White back on forward
Now Barker's ahead of Garrison on the depth chart?!? AV has gone too far this time...

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:16 AM
  #496
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Martin St. Louis would be the ideal winger for Kesler

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:20 AM
  #497
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I would say that a "lack of patience" was the correct call by Tiranis here. I agreed with it. The reason isn't because you are impatient in general. I remember you backed Hodgson before he made it. But it does seem you don't carry that over for Kassian. It is selective. The "cumulative impacts" argument is another line of reasoning to illustrate that further. As is your very vocal stance in support of Hodgson in past Kassian threads. All told, the same leeway isn't there for Kassian, I would say.
I have no idea what you're talking about. You asked a hypothetical question and I answered it. You said if Kassian is worth more than Hodgson at the age of 30(Ott's age), does that mean the Canucks won the trade outright. Obviously that wouldn't be the case if Hodgson is the superior player from now untl then. Their respective cumulative impacts throughout the life of their careers would factor into the equation. This is such basic logic...

What you're essentially saying is, had Ott been traded for Roy at the age of 21, it would have been an even swap. Well, that's not the case due to the fact Roy was superior for 6 of the past 7 years IMO.

I have never once questioned Kassian's future, have praised his skillset and upside since day 1 and haven't shown even an inkling of impatience with him at any point. You're not the one wearing the Kassian jersey around, I am. Just because I don't agree with you about the Canucks winning the trade if Kassian is better at the age of 30, doesn't mean I am being impatient with Kassian. At all.

I can justify the trade because Hodgson probably didn't want to be in Vancouver and Kassian has a rare and intriguing skillset the Canucks lacked. I just don't justify it for the same reason you are here. If you get the better player for 9 out of 10 years, you don't lose the deal because the player you dealt is marginally more valuable at your arbitrary, hypothetical cutoff point 8 years from now. I honestly can't wrap my head around what you're trying to argue here.

If Kassian catches or surpasses Hodgson in the short to medium term it's a different story. Using the age of 30 as your timeline? Yeah...

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:26 AM
  #498
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Martin St. Louis would be the ideal winger for Kesler
I feel the same way.
If we somehow got St. Louis, play him with Kesler.
If we somehow got Iginla, play him with the Sedins and put Burrows and Hansen with Kesler to form a super shutdown line.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:37 AM
  #499
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Ballard for White "seems" an even swap, but Ballard is stronger and a much better skater. I feel that no matter what team he goes to, he's going to make the management here look stupid, but it's inevitable. Still though, I hope they can turn him into something better than Ian White.
By management, I think you mean more specifically coaching.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
If Kassian catches or surpasses Hodgson in the short to medium term it's a different story. Using the age of 30 as your timeline? Yeah...
Maybe he meant "roughly 30".

(sorry, I couldn't resist.)

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03-21-2013, 10:09 AM
  #500
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
I have no idea what you're talking about. You asked a hypothetical question and I answered it. You said if Kassian is worth more than Hodgson at the age of 30(Ott's age), does that mean the Canucks won the trade outright. Obviously that wouldn't be the case if Hodgson is the superior player from now untl then. Their respective cumulative impacts throughout the life of their careers would factor into the equation. This is such basic logic...

What you're essentially saying is, had Ott been traded for Roy at the age of 21, it would have been an even swap. Well, that's not the case due to the fact Roy was superior for 6 of the past 7 years IMO.


I don't think I mentioned Ott's age as a threshold.

Your "basic logic" breaks down when we can't properly quantify "cumulative impact". Do you understand?

The last paragraph does not illustrate my argument. My argument is that if Hodgson's upside is eventually Roy, and Roy was traded for Ott, we know what level of value we can tie to Hodgson (eventually). And so, if Kassian is able to beat Ott's value, again eventually, then we know which side has garnered more value in the deal in the end (by getting the better player).

To back this up, others have pointed out that DAL wanted Hodgson plus for Ott. The plus amounting to the difference between Hodgson and Roy right now.



Quote:
I have never once questioned Kassian's future, have praised his skillset and upside since day 1 and haven't shown even an inkling of impatience with him at any point. You're not the one wearing the Kassian jersey around, I am. Just because I don't agree with you about the Canucks winning the trade if Kassian is better at the age of 30, doesn't mean I am being impatient with Kassian. At all.

I can justify the trade because Hodgson probably didn't want to be in Vancouver and Kassian has a rare and intriguing skillset the Canucks lacked. I just don't justify it for the same reason you are here. If you get the better player for 9 out of 10 years, you don't lose the deal because the player you dealt is marginally more valuable at your arbitrary, hypothetical cutoff point 8 years from now. I honestly can't wrap my head around what you're trying to argue here.

If Kassian catches or surpasses Hodgson in the short to medium term it's a different story. Using the age of 30 as your timeline? Yeah...


I can see you don't understand. Hopefully, my explanation above is able to help you along.

Again, your perceived favour for Hodgson, and subsequently lower opinion of Kassian is coming across in multiple posts. Over many threads. This latest "cumulative impact" argument, where there's no real judge of better/worse, is just another example. It's impatience because you are putting a clock to the scenario right now. I suspect due to the points Hodgson is putting up. That's why "impatience" was perceived in your post. Not by me initially, I might add. But I agree with it.

Yes, you may be a Kassian fan, but it's simply not coming across that way. Maybe you don't intend it to be, but the Hodgson backing has been more apparent from where I'm standing. That's what I'm seeing. Or it could be that I, and at least one other person, are "_misinterpreting_" you once again...

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