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Old
03-19-2013, 02:53 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
No, we're turning into the L.A. Kings. They moved their 1st rd pick for a centre and won the cup.

Not sure what the back to back President's trophy winning team has to do with the Flames, a team that has missed the playoffs for 5 straight years...

The Canucks are an extremely strong team from top to bottom and front to back. They just lack in one area, centre ice. Fail to address that and maybe you can claim we're the Calgary Flames.
The optimist in me wants to believe you but I really don't. Do you think with Roy we get by Chicago? LA? I doubt it. Don't compare Roy to Carter either, Carter is a pure sniper a one shot scorer who's scored 46 goals in a year, Roy is nowhere near the same caliber of player. The Kings can afford to give up a first round pick nearly there entire core is under the age of 28, there window to win is much larger than ours, first round picks aren't as valuable to them as they should be to us. I'm not opposed of getting Roy, but not at the cost of a 1 st.

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03-19-2013, 02:56 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Wheatley View Post
And I just don't think it's a good idea to neuter our one good scoring line by putting Kassian on it.

If we have to (and right now we don't have a choice) we should probably do this:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Raymond-Higgins-Hansen
Pinizzotto-Schroeder-Kassian
Sestito-Lapierre-Weise
That bottom 6 is putrid. It makes me wanna what's even worse is AV wil likely keep Ebbet on the 2 nd line

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03-19-2013, 03:00 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Do you think with Roy we get by Chicago? LA? I doubt it. Don't compare Roy to Carter either, Carter is a pure sniper a one shot scorer who's scored 46 goals in a year, Roy is nowhere near the same caliber of player.
With Roy and Kesler back in the lineup, absolutely. We wouldn't be heavily favoured like in the last couple years, but I wouldn't heavily favour other teams against Vancouver either. The team would have an excellent mix of offense and defense with strong goaltending. I don't see what would hold them back...

Roy produces more than Carter - Carter scores more goals. I would say they're pretty comparable, though I would prefer Carter due to his size and goalscoring ability.

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03-19-2013, 03:04 PM
  #204
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I predict Kesler will be back on April 8th against the Coyotes.

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03-19-2013, 03:05 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
With Roy and Kesler back in the lineup, absolutely. We wouldn't be heavily favoured like in the last couple years, but I wouldn't heavily favour other teams against Vancouver either. The team would have an excellent mix of offense and defense with strong goaltending. I don't see what would hold them back...

Roy produces more than Carter - Carter scores more goals. I would say they're pretty comparable, though I would prefer Carter due to his size and goalscoring ability.
I just don't see this team going far. But hey anything can happen, we saw that last year. IMO Carter is much, much more of an impact than Roy. Carter is getting severely underrated on this board. Someone thinks Hemsky is better than him

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03-19-2013, 03:07 PM
  #206
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LOL AV really made me laugh last night when the reporter said the last 2/3 periods.

AV: The last 2/3 periods? like WTF? lol

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Old
03-19-2013, 03:07 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by westvandal View Post
We're currently looking at a top ten pick,
We have the 10th best win % in the league. We're looking at the 19th overall pick right now I believe...

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Old
03-19-2013, 03:08 PM
  #208
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Is this year similar to the 2008 trade deadline?

That year, Dave Nonis was faced with a situation where he would have to trade for Brad Richards or another impact forward to save his job. Tampa's asking price was Kesler, Edler and Schneider (rumoured of course). Thankfully, he said no and we were able to get a 3-4 year run of the most successful hockey in franchise history....even if it cost him his job. Now unfortunately, the team has even worse young players then it had then. Kassian probably being our only young player with some value. The Canucks don't have the assets to get a big time impact forward.

Back in 2008, we had been banged up on defense and missing Morrison for a good chunk of the year, and the assumption was getting those guys back would help. However, it's not easy to step right back in to the lineup after an injury and have an impact. In 2008, it didn't happen in time to rescue the season, and Luongo was fairly ordinary down the stretch.

I really hope that parallel doesn't continue. If Kesler is back to form, there is no doubt this team is a playoff team....if not a contender in the west. However, he may not be back until the trade deadline, and even then he's played 7 games in a year and I doubt he can do what we need him to do to be successful. It doesn't help that since the first 10 or so games of the year our goaltending has been fairly average.

Unless Gillis can work some magic with a hockey trade to change the mix on our team that clearly isn't working...I think our only play is to mortgage the future on rentals and hope Kesler can return to form by the playoffs. I still don't think it will equal a cup (or even a deep playoff run), but its really the only option. I think the team is still too good (with Kesler) for a rebuild THIS year.

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Old
03-19-2013, 03:09 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
We have the 10th best win % in the league. We're looking at the 19th overall pick right now I believe...
Thats not that bad.

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03-19-2013, 03:10 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by canucksrool View Post
LOL AV really made me laugh last night when the reporter said the last 2/3 periods.

AV: The last 2/3 periods? like WTF? lol
two third periods

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Old
03-19-2013, 03:12 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
I just don't see this team going far. But hey anything can happen, we saw that last year.
I don't see this team going far if centre ice isn't improved upon. And if Gillis doesn't pony up and bring in a good player to fill that role we will be in the same position next year as well, unless Schroeder can quickly develop into a strong two-way threat. Which may be asking too much.

I don't think King fans thought they were going to see their team win their 1st ever Stanley cup either. Adding a bonafide top line talent really changed their makeup. I see the canucks as being in a similar boat - they're a strong posession team like LA last season, but not getting the results. Add some offensive ability and things can change in a hurry, when you have the elite talent, strong defense and excellent goaltending already in place.

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Old
03-19-2013, 03:15 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
I don't see this team going far if centre ice isn't improved upon. And if Gillis doesn't pony up and bring in a good player to fill that role we will be in the same position next year as well, unless Schroeder can quickly develop into a strong two-way threat. Which may be asking too much.

I don't think King fans thought they were going to see their team win their 1st ever Stanley cup either. Adding a bonafide top line talent really changed their makeup. I see the canucks as being in a similar boat - they're a strong posession team like LA last season, but not getting the results. Add some offensive ability and things can change in a hurry, when you have the elite talent, strong defense and excellent goaltending already in place.
That and the change in coach. If AV gets fired I'd feel much better about this team, but that's a story for another thread.

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Old
03-19-2013, 04:07 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
But Kesler hasn't been healthy and in the lineup since '10-11. He had a 2 month stretch where he was healthy last year and played well but laboured through injury for the majority of the year. This season doesn't really count as he broke his foot the first game back and was coming off such an extended layoff.

Scoring has only been an isue when Kesler is playing hurt. Roy would help mitigate that as he can step into the 2nd line centre position and create offense. He would also help the 2nd PP unit.

I also don't think a lack of effort is what is causing this team to be mediocre. It's the fact they can't win faceoffs, get absolutely no offense from every one of their bottom 6 forwards, injuries and Kesler's absence kills the PP. Looking at the PP's effectiveness over the last 4 years it appears it's Kesler that makes it go. The 2nd unit was more proficient than the 1st unit when he was on it and the 1st unit went from average to elite when he get bumped onto it.

The injuries to Malhotra and Kesler are the root of the problem IMO. You can't lose that faceoff ability, PK work, strong defensive play up the middle and secondary scoring and not take a significant step back. The West is just too tight.


Again, I agree that centre ice is the problem staring everyone in the face. But it's not the only problem. It may not even be the biggest issue either...

How do you know scoring is only an issue when Kesler is hurt? In the regular season, this team has put up GF totals similar to CHI and DET, but the Sedins comprise more of the offense compared to the other team's top players. It's disproportionate. The scoring is not spread out, even when it matches. Then add that Kesler himself is an erratic scorer even when healthy. Both in the regular season and in the playoffs.

You touched on getting no offense from their bottom6 forwards. Why do you think that is? If scoring was never there for the bottom6, and the 2nd line has gone south with Kesler missing, is this team really a contender? That doesn't sound like the depth of a contender to me. Or maybe it's not depth, maybe it's the coaches inability to extract value from that depth? Point is, bottom9 scoring has been a huge issue for this team even at the best of times, and even with wingers that have produced at a top6 rate under this very coach. Why?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Catamarca Livin View Post
How do you know the problems are deeper than center ice? I think they are exactly center ice. Kesler played 7 games and was not in top form. He still helped the pp of the team alot. Add Kesler and a solid centericeman and this team has the pieces to compete. I do not think you need to trade a first round pick to get that done but if you do so be it and trade our goalie for a pick to get it back. Like Drop the Sopel said with Raymond, and the Goalie we should be able to get a center. Hopefully with Ballard and our 2nd to 7th round picks we could get a r dman. That is not going all in by any stretch but it gives this year's team a chance. With the Sedins healthy a good goalie and good d men why would you let a obvious and fixable problem(center depth) stop you. We are not Calgary, we have the same core as the past 5 years, i do not think it has regressed in a large way. If it has lets find out by giving this team a chance. If with center ice improvements this team cannot compete, major changes should be made as it has shown it is not good enough anymore. We do not know that by watching 3 fringe NHl centericemen playing each night.

I am really against trading a 1st to "fix" problems on this team. If Raymond, Ballard and Luongo are movable assets, move them to fix the problems here before you even begin to touch that pick. Moving it is a non-starter for me given the information to date.

As explained, centre ice is one issue, among larger concerns. This team has always been strong at C with H.Sedin and Kesler on the first 2 lines. Still, the team struggled to score even with both in the line-up. Why? And if your team struggles to score with 2 #1Cs at the top, one an art ross winner and another a selke winner, what does that say about your team? Or its system?

How can people possibly localize a fix to one player, whether it's Kesler or another potential addition in Roy, when the overall production problems of the bottom9 have persisted for years with multiple "fixes" for the 3C position? Even when Hodgson was here, the common complaint was a lack of secondary scoring. And some think Hodgson was/is better than Roy. To me, that doesn't happen if the problems are only localized to scoring issues at 3C. It happens because there are greater problems with this team than just centre ice.

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Old
03-19-2013, 04:09 PM
  #214
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gabby would be the most exciting canuck since bure. id trade jensen plus for him

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Old
03-19-2013, 04:13 PM
  #215
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gabby would be the most exciting canuck since bure. id trade jensen plus for him
You don't want to trade Jensen.

Kassian is the guy you want to trade.

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03-19-2013, 04:14 PM
  #216
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I feel like we need a good third line center more than anything. I miss when our third line was one of the best for a year...

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03-19-2013, 04:21 PM
  #217
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I want Gillis to do something at/before the deadline.
Either add a couple of players who can help us dramatically, or sell off assets (upcoming UFAs, one of our goalies, Ballard).

If we do nothing, it will be a wasted year.

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03-19-2013, 04:22 PM
  #218
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Keep Ballard, trade the giveaway king, Alex "woops that guy was on the other team" Edler.

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Old
03-19-2013, 04:23 PM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMicrowave View Post
I feel like we need a good third line center more than anything. I miss when our third line was one of the best for a year...
They have a great third line centre in kesler. They need a 2nd line centre though.

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03-19-2013, 04:25 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by biggest canuck fan View Post
they have a great third line centre in kesler. They need a 2nd line centre though.
this

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03-19-2013, 04:25 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan View Post
They have a great third line centre in kesler. They need a 2nd line centre though.
Oh boy if you seriously think Kesler is a third line centre....

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03-19-2013, 04:29 PM
  #222
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Oh boy if you seriously think Kesler is a third line centre....
Kesler would be an elite third line centre, which is something that most Stanley Cup champions have in common.

Higgins-Kesler-Hansen should be our third line, and Raymond-scoring centre-scoring winger should be our second line.

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03-19-2013, 04:29 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
No, we're turning into the L.A. Kings. They moved their 1st rd pick for a centre and won the cup.

Not sure what the back to back President's trophy winning team has to do with the Flames, a team that has missed the playoffs for 5 straight years...

The Canucks are an extremely strong team from top to bottom and front to back. They just lack in one area, centre ice. Fail to address that and maybe you can claim we're the Calgary Flames.
The guy LA got was younger, and locked in to term, with IMO a better resume.

Not a very good comparison at all.

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Old
03-19-2013, 04:30 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Wheatley View Post
Kesler would be an elite third line centre, which is something that most Stanley Cup champions have in common.

Higgins-Kesler-Hansen should be our third line, and Raymond-scoring centre-scoring winger should be our second line.
Then who do you think is the perfect 2nd line scoring centre? Because I think Kesler's as good as it gets

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03-19-2013, 04:32 PM
  #225
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So Nick Kypreos floated a Mikhail Grabovski for Roberto Luongo rumor today. Man I'd be all over that.

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