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LeBrun: roster reset? Boyle to Rangers?

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Old
03-19-2013, 03:29 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
What kind of minutes do you think Murray's playing right now? The most sheltered of sheltered minutes. Braun and Demers would be absolutely fine.
Or we could just have no players or pairings that need sheltered minutes. Saying they'd be better than Murray isn't saying much.

And according to Fletcher, Setoguchi was just as necessary as Coyle.

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03-19-2013, 03:32 AM
  #127
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Or we could just have no players or pairings that need sheltered minutes. Saying they'd be better than Murray isn't saying much.

And according to Fletcher, Setoguchi was just as necessary as Coyle.
You're missing the point. I dont think DW thinks anyone is safe on this team. He'll trade a Vlasic if he feels the right deal is there. Doesn't matter what his current contract says

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03-19-2013, 03:36 AM
  #128
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You're missing the point. I dont think DW thinks anyone is safe on this team. He'll trade a Vlasic if he feels the right deal is there. Doesn't matter what his current contract says
No, I do see the point. And I think it's extraordinarily unlikely that a deal will be available that makes it worth dealing our only defensive defenseman.

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03-19-2013, 03:46 AM
  #129
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No, I do see the point. And I think it's extraordinarily unlikely that a deal will be available that makes it worth dealing our only defensive defenseman.
Ok just for arguements sake..Evander Kane is exactly what the Sharks need..MEV is exactly what Winnipeg needs to go with Bogosian and or Enstrom. Jets fans have said Claude Noel and Kane butt heads and fued. So if by an odd chance a deal centered around Kane and Vlasic were to be made..DW wouldn't do it?

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03-19-2013, 03:52 AM
  #130
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I don't really know how to respond to this. Of course he would, but it's pretty far out of the realm of possibility that Kane would be offered for Vlasic, so I don't think that helps your argument. If Kane were on the market, he'd get a lot more than we could afford to give.

Now, I'm going to sleep. We'll pick this up tomorrow.


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03-19-2013, 04:02 AM
  #131
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I don't really know how to respond to this. Of course he would, but it's pretty far out of the realm of possibility that Kane would be offered for Vlasic, so I don't think that helps your argument. If Kane were on the market, he'd get a lot more than we could afford to give.
I know I just threw a name out there. I think if Kane were moved it would be Joe Thornton style. I'm just trying to say that DW has to know what this team lacks and has the balls to make a move. I just think once Plattner has time to evaluate the situation and if this team continues to slide..all bets are off and the team could potentially look very different next year.

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03-19-2013, 04:19 AM
  #132
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That last point is interesting. Is his conditioning not where it should be? The only other key guys who didn't play overseas were Boyle and Marleau, and conditioning has never been a problem for either, plus they both came out on fire to start the season.
I don't think it's that he's out of shape. He's just too bulky. Muscle weighs 7 times as much as fat so having too much muscle can actually be more of a detriment to speed. I remember Jerry Rice tried showing up to Raiders training camp a couple times with 10 or more pounds of muscle over his typically sleek build and he had to lose the extra weight by the first couple regular season games because he said it made him too slow. I think this is clowes problem. Too much heavy lifting not enough plyometrics and higher rep, lower weight workouts.

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03-19-2013, 04:26 AM
  #133
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I don't think it's that he's out of shape. He's just too bulky. Muscle weighs 7 times as much as fat so having too much muscle can actually be more of a detriment to speed. I remember Jerry Rice tried showing up to Raiders training camp a couple times with 10 or more pounds of muscle over his typically sleek build and he had to lose the extra weight by the first couple regular season games because he said it made him too slow. I think this is clowes problem. Too much heavy lifting not enough plyometrics and higher rep, lower weight workouts.
dat broscience

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03-19-2013, 04:44 AM
  #134
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I think they should trade one of thornton or marleau for the huge return. Maybe Boyle and vlassic too. This is in addition to murray, Zeus and maybe clowe. If they trade Thornton I would be fine keeping clowe. His skill set is just too difficult to replace when he's playing well. If they get a young power forward back in one of those trades then clowe is gone for sure. They have enough defense. Not to be elite but enough to be competitive. They will be a bubble team for the next couple years but I think it could be good to give braun and demers a ton of ice time to develop them and their confidence. I think both are easily top 4 d men once they hit their prime. They won't ever get there as long as burns, boyle ,vlassic, and stuart are on this team though.

Contrary to popular opinion I keep havlat especially if we can somehow get a good stretch of games out of him like tonight. THis was one of his best games as a shark IMO, at least offensively. Loved the shoot first mentality and I liked him with Gomez. I would also try and resign gomez for another 2 years as a stop gap. He can obviously still put up points and he's a pretty excellent skater.

To be honest though, other than that crap 3 or 4 minutes I thought the sharks had one of their better games in a while. I loved that they fought back in this one and pretty much dominated the 3rd period.

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03-19-2013, 05:49 AM
  #135
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If there is one player in the league that we specifically need to go out of our way not to get, it's Brian Boyle.
Yes, a center who averages about 2:00 mins/game of shorthanded time (on one of the better PK teams) is absolute garbage. It must be a fluke that the Rangers are 8th in the league (Penalty Killing) this season and were 5th last year.

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03-19-2013, 05:51 AM
  #136
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Yes, a center who averages about 2:00 mins/game of shorthanded time (on one of the better PK teams) is absolute garbage. It must be a fluke that the Rangers are 8th in the league (Penalty Killing) this season and were 5th last year.
And SJ is 3rd this year. Why do we need a guy from the 8th ranked kill? Sounds more like a downgrade. Plus we already have the token "Supposed PK god but sucks at everything else" in Adam Burish.

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03-19-2013, 08:39 AM
  #137
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I think we're in for a big off-season. Plattner's keeping the same structure mostly because he took over just after the shortened season started. There's very little reason for him to drastically alter the organization at the time he made the transaction but this off-season, especially if the team somehow misses the playoffs, is the opportune time to put his stamp on the team.

I understand DW's ways about the roster reset/refresh. He's still hung up on what happened in his first year as a GM. If it takes a couple years of losing in order to win the ultimate prize, then fine. Most everyone can get on board with that. The problem is that DW has shown time and again that he doesn't know how to build and keep a deep team.

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03-19-2013, 09:09 AM
  #138
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I think we're in for a big off-season. Plattner's keeping the same structure mostly because he took over just after the shortened season started. There's very little reason for him to drastically alter the organization at the time he made the transaction but this off-season, especially if the team somehow misses the playoffs, is the opportune time to put his stamp on the team.

I understand DW's ways about the roster reset/refresh. He's still hung up on what happened in his first year as a GM. If it takes a couple years of losing in order to win the ultimate prize, then fine. Most everyone can get on board with that. The problem is that DW has shown time and again that he doesn't know how to build and keep a deep team.
I agree, also the timing of all of this, the year prior to the majority of the contracts ending, is likely not a coincidence. My bet is Platner expects to making sweeping changes this off-season. This may even be way Tmac is still there, Platner has told Wilson not to change coaches because if he needs or wants to fire DW in the off-season he does not want to be tied down to a new coach that DW chose.

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03-19-2013, 09:42 AM
  #139
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Why would we trade him just to replace him? Considering we struggle to sign FAs we very well may just have to trade for another who probably won't be as good.
Well, we'd need someone to replace Stuart/Murray in a couple years. Even Vancouver doesn't ice 6 puckmovers all the time. DFD are always available in trade or free agency. DW should not have a problem with getting one of these guys.

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03-19-2013, 09:48 AM
  #140
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I agree, also the timing of all of this, the year prior to the majority of the contracts ending, is likely not a coincidence. My bet is Platner expects to making sweeping changes this off-season. This may even be way Tmac is still there, Platner has told Wilson not to change coaches because if he needs or wants to fire DW in the off-season he does not want to be tied down to a new coach that DW chose.
If this is the case then I do hope that DW does not make any bone-headed moves and trade our picks/prospects away for older players to make a possible joke of a playoff run.

As I have given up on this season I have minimal expectations:

- To not lose any picks in the 2013 draft or our top prospects like Hertl, Nieto, Acolatse, etc.
- Possibly trade Murray and Clowe for picks/prospects
- Reset in the off-season by dumping TMac, DW or both.

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03-19-2013, 10:12 AM
  #141
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Boyle, Clowe, Murray, Zeus, Havlat... Damn, thats a lot of 7th round picks for us
I'd say make a package deal and give all of them for one 7th rounder.

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03-19-2013, 10:16 AM
  #142
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Problem? Way too many defensive gaffes from the first and third pairings......?
Have you watched 22 and 52 play together?

And I'd rather pair Burns with Braun and Stuart with Demers, but that isn't a bad defense at all. If we got a young offensive stud (Black Kane is a good example) then I wouldn't be against trading him but for now, I see Braun as the odd man out.

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03-19-2013, 10:21 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I think we're in for a big off-season. Plattner's keeping the same structure mostly because he took over just after the shortened season started. There's very little reason for him to drastically alter the organization at the time he made the transaction but this off-season, especially if the team somehow misses the playoffs, is the opportune time to put his stamp on the team.

I understand DW's ways about the roster reset/refresh. He's still hung up on what happened in his first year as a GM. If it takes a couple years of losing in order to win the ultimate prize, then fine. Most everyone can get on board with that. The problem is that DW has shown time and again that he doesn't know how to build and keep a deep team.
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I agree, also the timing of all of this, the year prior to the majority of the contracts ending, is likely not a coincidence. My bet is Platner expects to making sweeping changes this off-season. This may even be way Tmac is still there, Platner has told Wilson not to change coaches because if he needs or wants to fire DW in the off-season he does not want to be tied down to a new coach that DW chose.
I as well agree with both of you. I am at the belief that Todd and D.W. will be the first of the major changes to come this "early Sharks summer". Any trade we make now is getting to be quite a bit too late / this season is quickly becoming a write off and the fear is D.W. make's another awful trade or two as in the McGinn deal.

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03-19-2013, 10:33 AM
  #144
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Yes, a center who averages about 2:00 mins/game of shorthanded time (on one of the better PK teams) is absolute garbage. It must be a fluke that the Rangers are 8th in the league (Penalty Killing) this season and were 5th last year.
Yeah, because the PK totally depends on the personnel on it. That's why the Sharks changed all the PK forwards from last year to this year when their PK went from 29th to 5th... Wait a second...

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03-19-2013, 10:35 AM
  #145
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I as well agree with both of you. I am at the belief that Todd and D.W. will be the first of the major changes to come this "early Sharks summer". Any trade we make now is getting to be quite a bit too late / this season is quickly becoming a write off and the fear is D.W. make's another awful trade or two as in the McGinn deal.
It's possible we may see one of two things happen before the deadline too, if this is the case:

1) No trades at all because Platner tells DW not to.

2) We see only trades for futures because Platner tells DW to get value for who he can.

Then the question becomes, does Platner trust DW with a rebuild? My bet would be no. I don't know Platner specifically, but I have known several billionaires in my time and they were all very shrewd guys. Nice, down to earth, even jovial, but also ruthless when it came to business. When the Sharks were run by committee they were more likely to take the 'safe' course of action. Keep DW in place, don't take big risks, make the playoffs, rince repeat. With the team now being run by a single entity I think it becomes far more likely the Sharks start taking bigger risks and making bigger changes.

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03-19-2013, 10:39 AM
  #146
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It's possible we may see one of two things happen before the deadline too, if this is the case:

1) No trades at all because Platner tells DW not to.

2) We see only trades for futures because Platner tells DW to get value for who he can.

Then the question becomes, does Platner trust DW with a rebuild? My bet would be no. I don't know Platner specifically, but I have known several billionaires in my time and they were all very shrewd guys. Nice, down to earth, even jovial, but also ruthless when it came to business. When the Sharks were run by committee they were more likely to take the 'safe' course of action. Keep DW in place, don't take big risks, make the playoffs, rince repeat. With the team now being run by a single entity I think it becomes far more likely the Sharks start taking bigger risks and making bigger changes.
What's there not to be jovial about? They are billionaires.

But I do hope you are right, that would be the best direction for the team to go in. If we are smart with how we go about the business in the off-season we can acquire speed, get younger and still compete to make the playoffs while working towards a long-term plan of winning the cup.

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03-19-2013, 10:41 AM
  #147
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It's possible we may see one of two things happen before the deadline too, if this is the case:

1) No trades at all because Platner tells DW not to.

2) We see only trades for futures because Platner tells DW to get value for who he can.

Then the question becomes, does Platner trust DW with a rebuild? My bet would be no. I don't know Platner specifically, but I have known several billionaires in my time and they were all very shrewd guys. Nice, down to earth, even jovial, but also ruthless when it came to business. When the Sharks were run by committee they were more likely to take the 'safe' course of action. Keep DW in place, don't take big risks, make the playoffs, rince repeat. With the team now being run by a single entity I think it becomes far more likely the Sharks start taking bigger risks and making bigger changes.
Very well put. If so on the point of taking bigger risks, then even more fuel to the likelihood of D.W. NOT being the G.M. going forward.

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03-19-2013, 10:43 AM
  #148
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I really really really like Boyle. I also like Murray and Clowe But if DW goes rebuild and trades away core pieces, then we must keep at the very least Couture, Burns and Vlasic. Vlasic-Demers pairing has always done well too.

It's tough to really analyze because, Thornton was one of the best players in the league the last 3 years. He was one of the best captains and was our Conn Smythe candidate and all. Great defensively, on face-offs, offensively, fighting, etc. But for over a month now, he's been horrendous. I don't know what's up, whether it's an injury or a personal matter, but it could also very well be a problem with McLellan. We have a good D squad on paper, a good top-6, an alright bottom-6 and a goalie that's played well this year except for a few games these past weeks. We have Robinson behind the bench too. Is the problem in the locker room, with the coach ? Or is this team really supposed to be in the bottom-half given what's the actual roster. It all depends on which of those two options you believe.

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03-19-2013, 10:45 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer View Post
What's there not to be jovial about? They are billionaires.

But I do hope you are right, that would be the best direction for the team to go in. If we are smart with how we go about the business in the off-season we can acquire speed, get younger and still compete to make the playoffs while working towards a long-term plan of winning the cup.
hehe yah, it's kind of tough to describe what i mean though. My Dad is good friends with the Seeno family for instance, Albert especially, he's known him for 30+ years, and I've met a few others as well. I'm not saying they are not friendly people, but you can tell they are always holding something back. I think it's because, as a billionaire, you are 'always working'. There is no 'off the clock'. I got that impression from the interviews we've seen with Platner. It's pure speculation though, just giving you my impression.

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03-19-2013, 10:54 AM
  #150
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And I know people will look way too into Plattner's referral of all hockey questions to DW and assume nothing will change. Ted Leonis and Terry Pegula are good examples of when rich fans become owners are get too involved in day to day hoc key ops. Plattner doesn't strike me as such. Its like fans who think Wayne Gretzky should replace Bettman.

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