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LeBrun: roster reset? Boyle to Rangers?

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Old
03-19-2013, 10:55 AM
  #151
ramstoria
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
It's possible we may see one of two things happen before the deadline too, if this is the case:

1) No trades at all because Platner tells DW not to.

2) We see only trades for futures because Platner tells DW to get value for who he can.

Then the question becomes, does Platner trust DW with a rebuild? My bet would be no. I don't know Platner specifically, but I have known several billionaires in my time and they were all very shrewd guys. Nice, down to earth, even jovial, but also ruthless when it came to business. When the Sharks were run by committee they were more likely to take the 'safe' course of action. Keep DW in place, don't take big risks, make the playoffs, rince repeat. With the team now being run by a single entity I think it becomes far more likely the Sharks start taking bigger risks and making bigger changes.
I think we will see 2. Clowe is gone next year. I think if Clowe tests FA he will sign an overvalued contract with a team that wants him as a PF and the Sharks simply won't be able to match. We might as well trade him and get a decent return. Murray, I could actually see us resigning him, so I'd rather we trade him and get a draft pick. Murray for a 6th and 7th. Fine with me.

After that, fire Tmac in the offseason. Keep DW for one more year. Hire a new HC and give him and DW a full off season together to try and put something together for one last push with our core. After next season, we have an opportunity to do a rebuild on the fly. Big contracts are coming off the books in Thorton, Marleau, Boyle, and Pavelski. We have only $25.5m committed for 2014/15, so we have a chance to do a nice rebuild at that time. Not to mention we can trade guys like Pavelski and Boyle next season if things are looking bad.

All that being said, I hope Tmac is fired this year, so we can bring a new coach to finish the season and get to know the team. That way we go into next year better prepared for the last ride of the core.

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03-19-2013, 11:19 AM
  #152
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I think we will see 2. Clowe is gone next year. I think if Clowe tests FA he will sign an overvalued contract with a team that wants him as a PF and the Sharks simply won't be able to match. We might as well trade him and get a decent return. Murray, I could actually see us resigning him, so I'd rather we trade him and get a draft pick. Murray for a 6th and 7th. Fine with me.

After that, fire Tmac in the offseason. Keep DW for one more year. Hire a new HC and give him and DW a full off season together to try and put something together for one last push with our core. After next season, we have an opportunity to do a rebuild on the fly. Big contracts are coming off the books in Thorton, Marleau, Boyle, and Pavelski. We have only $25.5m committed for 2014/15, so we have a chance to do a nice rebuild at that time. Not to mention we can trade guys like Pavelski and Boyle next season if things are looking bad.

All that being said, I hope Tmac is fired this year, so we can bring a new coach to finish the season and get to know the team. That way we go into next year better prepared for the last ride of the core.
Another season with "this core"? Really? You think a different coach will just suddenly be able to "fix" our problems.

It's over guys. The window is shut. Done. We've been declining for several seasons and its painfully obvious now more than ever that this core is a bust. We did very well, but our best days are behind us. For this core, at least.

The only core I want to see left over is under 30 or named Brad Stuart.

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03-19-2013, 12:35 PM
  #153
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Another season with "this core"? Really? You think a different coach will just suddenly be able to "fix" our problems.

It's over guys. The window is shut. Done. We've been declining for several seasons and its painfully obvious now more than ever that this core is a bust. We did very well, but our best days are behind us. For this core, at least.

The only core I want to see left over is under 30 or named Brad Stuart.
According to David Pollak's Blog this probably isn't going happen.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/sharks/
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Nothing after that 5-3 loss to the Anaheim Ducks that hasn’t been said before in this increasingly troubled season.

We can get to that later.

First, if you missed it elsewhere, I did attempt to find out what Hasso Plattner has been thinking since he became the de facto head of the Sharks ownership group back on Jan. 30 when the team was 6-0-0. Plattner said at the time that he would not be talking directly to the media, that all hockey questions should be directed to Doug Wilson, all business questions to Malcolm Bordelon. Same policy as his predecessors, Kevin Compton and Stratton Sclavos.

Still, things have reached the point where the questions of accountability include the general manager, no? And I’m not going to ask Doug Wilson about Doug Wilson’s performance. so I reached out to Plattner. We exchanged emails.

Here’s a cut and paste on the relevant graf from our online-only story:

Plattner acknowledged Monday that “the facts are the facts” as far as the team’s wins and losses, but declined to comment beyond that. Asked about accountability for players, coaches and the general manager, he again said all questions should be directed to Wilson.

Wilson, by the way, heads to Toronto on Tuesday for the NHL general manager’s meeting. He has indicated that the team remains committed to a “reset and refresh” approach to its roster that keeps the Sharks in playoff contention every year rather than a total overhaul that could mean missing the post-season for an extended period. The extent of any roster changes and whether they would come before the April 3 trade deadline likely would depend on what he sees from the team over the next two weeks.

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03-19-2013, 12:40 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Rapid eye movemenT View Post
Another season with "this core"? Really? You think a different coach will just suddenly be able to "fix" our problems.

It's over guys. The window is shut. Done. We've been declining for several seasons and its painfully obvious now more than ever that this core is a bust. We did very well, but our best days are behind us. For this core, at least.

The only core I want to see left over is under 30 or named Brad Stuart.
Several seasons? You mean one season? We declined last year (from winning the Pacific and WCF trip to the 7th seed and a first round exit), and we're basically at the same point this year as we finished last year.

Who are our top performing guys this year again? Oh right, it's the core. Remind me who isn't holding their own weight this year. Is it the bottom 6? Because they've actually been a bigger problem than the core for "several seasons".

So yes. I think a new coach and a couple of tweaks (Murray, Clowe, etc) could make us contend in the West next season. All the posters that are clamoring for a fire sale of players and a complete overhaul of coaches and management have very short term memories.

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03-19-2013, 12:54 PM
  #155
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Several seasons? You mean one season? We declined last year (from winning the Pacific and WCF trip to the 7th seed and a first round exit), and were basically at the same point this year as we finished last year.

Who are our top performing guys this year again? Oh right, it's the core. Remind me who isn't holding their own weight this year. Is it the bottom 6? Because They've actually been a bigger problem than the core for "several seasons".

So yes. I think a new coach and a couple of tweaks (Murray, Clowe, etc) could make us contend in the West next season. All the posters that are clamoring for a fire sale of players and a complete overhaul of coaches and management have very short term memories.
Marleau, Couture and Jumbo are the only players in the top-6 that have performed well.

Pavs has had 5 pts since the beginning of February. Clowe has been invisible. Havlat has been injured but even before that he had 6 points in 20 games. To match the speed/system in todays NHL we need atleast 2 fast players on every wing.

Marleau, Havlat are speedy. But Pavs, Jumbo, Clowe and Couture are not. Among that 4, we got to keep Couture.

My preference would be to trade Clowe, and move Pavs to center the 3rd line where he can shine against lesser competition. Put a young fast winger on Jumbo's line.

If that is not an option with Pavs, then we got to trade him or Thornton. Pavs is going to be easier to trade and will fetch a fair value.

The bottom-6 has been disappointing as well but we are so top heavy that we cannot afford to put any talent in the bottom-6.

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03-19-2013, 01:00 PM
  #156
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We're top heavy by design because DW was too big of a wimp to try some cap circumventing deals.

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03-19-2013, 01:04 PM
  #157
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We're top heavy by design because DW was too big of a wimp to try some cap circumventing deals.
I would bet that was as much or more the owners saying no as DW to those kinds of deals. And good for them

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03-19-2013, 01:10 PM
  #158
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Marleau, Couture and Jumbo are the only players in the top-6 that have performed well.

Pavs has had 5 pts since the beginning of February. Clowe has been invisible. Havlat has been injured but even before that he had 6 points in 20 games. To match the speed/system in todays NHL we need atleast 2 fast players on every wing.

Marleau, Havlat are speedy. But Pavs, Jumbo, Clowe and Couture are not. Among that 4, we got to keep Couture.

My preference would be to trade Clowe, and move Pavs to center the 3rd line where he can shine against lesser competition. Put a young fast winger on Jumbo's line.

If that is not an option with Pavs, then we got to trade him or Thornton. Pavs is going to be easier to trade and will fetch a fair value.

The bottom-6 has been disappointing as well but we are so top heavy that we cannot afford to put any talent in the bottom-6.
Right, a few tweaks. Clowe is gone next year. Whether it's via FA or trade is up to Wilson. I guarantee he won't be back. I'd love to see Pavs back on the 3rd line. He did fantastic for us there before, and I think he could again. Bring in a new coach and we can build around this:

Havlat - Thorton - X
Marleau - Couture - Burns?
Wingels - Pavelski - X
X - Burish - X

That's a pretty decent start if you ask me. Whether Burns stays as a F or goes back to D, I feel really comfortable with our D next year (minus Murray). And then, as I said, we reevaluate next season. If things aren't improving we can move Pavs and Boyle to get a handsome return and determine if we are going to resign Marleau or Thorton.

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03-19-2013, 01:34 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer View Post
Marleau, Couture and Jumbo are the only players in the top-6 that have performed well.

Pavs has had 5 pts since the beginning of February. Clowe has been invisible. Havlat has been injured but even before that he had 6 points in 20 games. To match the speed/system in todays NHL we need atleast 2 fast players on every wing.

Marleau, Havlat are speedy. But Pavs, Jumbo, Clowe and Couture are not. Among that 4, we got to keep Couture.

My preference would be to trade Clowe, and move Pavs to center the 3rd line where he can shine against lesser competition. Put a young fast winger on Jumbo's line.

If that is not an option with Pavs, then we got to trade him or Thornton. Pavs is going to be easier to trade and will fetch a fair value.

The bottom-6 has been disappointing as well but we are so top heavy that we cannot afford to put any talent in the bottom-6.
Couture plays just as fast as Marleau. You can have all the team speed you want but if you constantly bobble pucks and miss passes..you're going to look terribly slow.

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03-19-2013, 01:51 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by ramstoria View Post
Several seasons? You mean one season? We declined last year (from winning the Pacific and WCF trip to the 7th seed and a first round exit), and we're basically at the same point this year as we finished last year.

Who are our top performing guys this year again? Oh right, it's the core. Remind me who isn't holding their own weight this year. Is it the bottom 6? Because they've actually been a bigger problem than the core for "several seasons".

So yes. I think a new coach and a couple of tweaks (Murray, Clowe, etc) could make us contend in the West next season. All the posters that are clamoring for a fire sale of players and a complete overhaul of coaches and management have very short term memories.
Our best year was our trip to the wcf, and Vancouver handled us. Last year we didn't stand a chance. This year we're worse. Our core is aging, so yes we're on the decline. I haven't forgotten anything. I've watched nearly every sharks game for the last 7 seasons straight on both tv and a season ticket holder. But I don't need to prove my history as a fan.

We've tried and tried to build around this core and have FAILED. how many times do we need to go through that? Seriously? We've had a couple tweaks done over and over again. Same result, no cup.

Maybe you're the one suffering from memory loss, eh?

A new coach isn't suddenly going to turn our slower players into forechecking, hard nose to the net machines. It's just not going to happen. The culture of this team is not an intense one and as long as this era of our existing core is still around, that's not changing.

I'm not suggesting we trade everyone. We have plenty of quality prieces to build on. But you have to give to get.

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03-19-2013, 02:04 PM
  #161
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I think we stood a chance last year if we could've avoided St. Louis. They owned the sharks all year but we seemed to handle LA fairly easily. We just drew the worst possible matchup for this team/system in the 1st round. I knew it was coming when we beat LA in the last game of the regular season to set that match up.

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03-19-2013, 02:05 PM
  #162
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We could get in as the 8th seed and catch fire. Memories, long or short have nothing to do with anything.

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03-19-2013, 02:11 PM
  #163
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I think we stood a chance last year if we could've avoided St. Louis. They owned the sharks all year but we seemed to handle LA fairly easily. We just drew the worst possible matchup for this team/system in the 1st round. I knew it was coming when we beat LA in the last game of the regular season to set that match up.
Yah we all did, anyone who didn't was fooling themselves. It was clear that Todd McLellan did not know how to coach around the trap and that was not going to change all of the sudden. Also, as soon as the Blues faced a team that had a coach that could, they got beat, as I said. The trap doesn't work in the modern NHL, no matter what modifications you make to it.

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We could get in as the 8th seed and catch fire. Memories, long or short have nothing to do with anything.
Doubtful. The Sharks are actually getting worse. Our defense is weakening and Niemi is deteriorating quickly (overuse). We are scoring slightly more, but at the expense of giving up 2 goals a game more on average now. It's a mess, and I don't even see any underlying positives that the Sharks can build on. Their game is a mess, they are not doing anything particularly well right now (except killing penalties).

Not to be a downer, I'm not really that upset about it, but at this point it's more about what can we do long term than to fix this season.

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03-19-2013, 02:17 PM
  #164
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Yah we all did, anyone who didn't was fooling themselves. It was clear that Todd McLellan did not know how to coach around the trap and that was not going to change all of the sudden. Also, as soon as the Blues faced a team that had a coach that could, they got beat, as I said. The trap doesn't work in the modern NHL, no matter what modifications you make to it.



Doubtful. The Sharks are actually getting worse. Our defense is weakening and Niemi is deteriorating quickly (overuse). We are scoring slightly more, but at the expense of giving up 2 goals a game more on average now. It's a mess, and I don't even see any underlying positives that the Sharks can build on. Their game is a mess, they are not doing anything particularly well right now (except killing penalties).

Not to be a downer, I'm not really that upset about it, but at this point it's more about what can we do long term than to fix this season.
You're not being a downer. The team hasn't shown any signs of overcoming this streak unlike in the past. When you only have 3 regulation wins in the last 23 games its hard to see silver linings and moral victories.

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03-19-2013, 03:51 PM
  #165
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We could get in as the 8th seed and catch fire. Memories, long or short have nothing to do with anything.
I wouldn't bet on it. We played a great 2 periods against the Kings and that was it. We've had a few good games here an there, but nothing that shows signs that we can be a dominant team for longer than a game or two (if that). The first 7 games are a moot point.

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03-19-2013, 04:01 PM
  #166
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The team hasn't shown any signs of overcoming this streak unlike in the past. When you only have 3 regulation wins in the last 23 games its hard to see silver linings and moral victories.
So true. It is not just a typical 'slump' as all teams go through. Unfortunately, as being discussed in many details on the Sharks boards, it is just many issue's with this team right now.

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03-19-2013, 04:20 PM
  #167
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Our best year was our trip to the wcf, and Vancouver handled us. Last year we didn't stand a chance. This year we're worse. Our core is aging, so yes we're on the decline. I haven't forgotten anything. I've watched nearly every sharks game for the last 7 seasons straight on both tv and a season ticket holder. But I don't need to prove my history as a fan.

We've tried and tried to build around this core and have FAILED. how many times do we need to go through that? Seriously? We've had a couple tweaks done over and over again. Same result, no cup.

Maybe you're the one suffering from memory loss, eh?

A new coach isn't suddenly going to turn our slower players into forechecking, hard nose to the net machines. It's just not going to happen. The culture of this team is not an intense one and as long as this era of our existing core is still around, that's not changing.

I'm not suggesting we trade everyone. We have plenty of quality prieces to build on. But you have to give to get.
You don't need to prove your fandom, I'm just pointing out that it hasn't been "several years" of us on the decline. We're talking about a season and a half since our last WCF trip. It's not like the Flames, who haven't been to the WCF in 8 years.

I would say we've made pathetic attempts to build around the core. I mean look at some of the stellar names we've signed in the past or traded for mid-year... Winchester, Murray, Winnik, Handzus, Eager... sprinkled in with AHL scrubs like Helminen, Vesce, McCarthy, McLaren, Mashinter... Not exactly an impressive list of names. Outside of Nichol and Malhotra (maybe a couple of others. maybe.), the bottom six fill ins have not carried their weight. Point is, you say we've tried to build around the core and failed. I say we failed to build around the core.

Of course a new coach can't wave a magic wand and make us the best team in the league. But they can change a lot, which would give us a chance to reassess our current talent and future needs in another system (presumably the system that will be in place the next several years).

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03-19-2013, 04:21 PM
  #168
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We could get in as the 8th seed and catch fire. Memories, long or short have nothing to do with anything.

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03-19-2013, 04:34 PM
  #169
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Another season with "this core"? Really? You think a different coach will just suddenly be able to "fix" our problems.

It's over guys. The window is shut. Done. We've been declining for several seasons and its painfully obvious now more than ever that this core is a bust. We did very well, but our best days are behind us. For this core, at least.

The only core I want to see left over is under 30 or named Brad Stuart.
Sign me up for this. I supported this core with the best of them, but it's time for a new era of Sharks hockey.

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03-19-2013, 06:35 PM
  #170
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Another season with "this core"? Really? You think a different coach will just suddenly be able to "fix" our problems.

It's over guys. The window is shut. Done. We've been declining for several seasons and its painfully obvious now more than ever that this core is a bust. We did very well, but our best days are behind us. For this core, at least.

The only core I want to see left over is under 30 or named Brad Stuart.
The core is fine. A Coaching change may not make our guys skate faster but there is plenty of things a coaching change can do to change the system and improve our play and to win a game every once in a while. Need evidence to back up that theory? Look at our Penalty kill. Last in the league last year. Hire Robinson. boom, it's 3rd in the league just like that.

People said our window was "shut" after losing to the Ducks in 2009. Theyve been saying its closing every year since then. Guess what, the window is never shut. and its pretty pathetic that thinking that we have to tank on purpose like Pittsburgh and Chicago did before we become respectable again.

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03-19-2013, 07:04 PM
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The core is fine. A Coaching change may not make our guys skate faster but there is plenty of things a coaching change can do to change the system and improve our play and to win a game every once in a while. Need evidence to back up that theory? Look at our Penalty kill. Last in the league last year. Hire Robinson. boom, it's 3rd in the league just like that.

People said our window was "shut" after losing to the Ducks in 2009. Theyve been saying its closing every year since then. Guess what, the window is never shut. and its pretty pathetic that thinking that we have to tank on purpose like Pittsburgh and Chicago did before we become respectable again.
Dude, Columbus is better than us right now. The window has shattered it's shut so hard.

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03-19-2013, 07:13 PM
  #172
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Seriously everyone is screaming to blow it all up. Why not just trim the fat and add? Roster wise we have:

A high tier 1C (Thornton)
An elite top line winger (Marleau)
A great 2C (Couture)
A future 1D (Burns)
A young top shutdown D (Vlasic)

That's a pretty good foundation to build on with the pieces from trading guys like Boyle, Pavelski, etc.

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03-19-2013, 07:16 PM
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Right, so our window is shut because some team below us in the standings just happens to be hot right now and won a few games this month.

I'm not sure how some other team's short term success has anything to do with our ability to contend.

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Seriously everyone is screaming to blow it all up. Why not just trim the fat and add? Roster wise we have:

A high tier 1C (Thornton)
An elite top line winger (Marleau)
A great 2C (Couture)
A future 1D (Burns)
A young top shutdown D (Vlasic)

That's a pretty good foundation to build on with the pieces from trading guys like Boyle, Pavelski, etc.
Thank you, at least someone else is looking at this sensibly.

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03-19-2013, 07:19 PM
  #174
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Right, so our window is shut because some team below us in the standings just happens to be hot right now and won a few games this month.

I'm not sure how some other team's short term success has anything to do with our ability to contend.



Thank you, at least someone else is looking at this sensibly.
Yes, losing to the worst teams in the league mean's SJ can still contend.

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03-19-2013, 07:22 PM
  #175
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Yes, losing to the worst teams in the league mean's SJ can still contend.
http://espn.go.com/nhl/team/schedule...-angeles-kings

ERMAHGERD, Los Angeles got shutout by Columbus last year?!?! NOWAI! THEY COULDNT HAVE THEY WON THE CUP!!1!

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