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Old
03-29-2013, 01:25 AM
  #601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Hamilton doesn't have a NTC yet... would he be available?

Oh look at that, neither do Spooner and Khokhlachev.

Hamilton + Spooner/Koko + 1st +, and even then probably not.
That's not a deal Boston makes but if it were offered, Erkisson and Jagr for that price you have to pull the trigger. You'd miss Loui but good lord. Look at the lineup.


Whitney-Benn-Khokhlachev
Fraser-Spooner-Smith
Roussel-Eakin-Cole
Sceviour-Fiddler-Vincour

Hamilton-Dillon
Daley-Goose
Rome-Larsen
Benn

Assumes you trade Robidas in the off-season.

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Old
03-29-2013, 01:56 AM
  #602
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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
I just I don't get it. What does what Jagr did 15 years ago with the Penguins have anything to do with the current Dallas Stars team? Love him for his leadership. Ok. Love him for his production. Sure, but love him because he used to be fantastic and now is good? Really?

Ray Bourque got traded. Jagr's been traded. Selanne got traded. I'm not advocating they treat him like crap and don't tell him a thing till the deal's already done but sit down him with him, conference call his agent and explain where Dallas is. Good lord he's in the dressing room, you think he doesn't recognize a non-winning franchise when he plays for one? Tell him you love him and want him back next year. Tell him to make sure he brings any offers back to you to match because he knows if he's on this team he'll get power play time and lots of ice time and be encouraged in any way possible to spend time with the kids and train with them whenever he wants. You don't tie yourself to a 41 year old player at the expense of the younger player and pick your franchise desperately needs. For 3 freaking weeks you say thank you but here's what we need to do.
"Tell him to bring back any offers"...this shows you're not dealing with reality. Jagr is a different cat, he lives and does things his own way. If what Heika said about him is true then he will not be feeling great toward the Stars if he is traded and certainly won't be under any obligation to give them a chance to match another team's offer.

Oh, and Ray Bourque was searching for a Cup; irrelevant. Jagr was traded to NY out of a bad situation in Washington; he welcomed that trade and it rejuvenated him in his early 30's - a decade ago. Selanne is nowhere near Jagr in terms of legend status, and he wasn't anywhere close to it back when he was traded to San Jose either.

I can't argue my point in logic it just has to do with class and respect. A very very few players in sports have accomplished enough for me to think of them in these terms but Jagr is one of them. Feel free to disagree. I would add that it just doesn't look good around the league among players for an organization to trade the #8 all time leading scorer when he's specifically asked not to be. Call that bull**** but I think it would matter.

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03-29-2013, 01:59 AM
  #603
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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
That's not a deal Boston makes but if it were offered, Erkisson and Jagr for that price you have to pull the trigger. You'd miss Loui but good lord. Look at the lineup.


Whitney-Benn-Khokhlachev
Fraser-Spooner-Smith
Roussel-Eakin-Cole
Sceviour-Fiddler-Vincour

Hamilton-Dillon
Daley-Goose
Rome-Larsen
Benn

Assumes you trade Robidas in the off-season.
I almost hope we can get Spooner just so we can see how he would pan out in Dallas. You slotting a first year player in the two hole over Eakin is cute though.

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Old
03-29-2013, 03:14 AM
  #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
That's not a deal Boston makes but if it were offered, Erkisson and Jagr for that price you have to pull the trigger. You'd miss Loui but good lord. Look at the lineup.


Whitney-Benn-Khokhlachev
Fraser-Spooner-Smith
Roussel-Eakin-Cole
Sceviour-Fiddler-Vincour

Hamilton-Dillon
Daley-Goose
Rome-Larsen
Benn

Assumes you trade Robidas in the off-season.
Who is 1st overall in 2014? That roster would be awful at an NHL level for a year or two.

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Old
03-29-2013, 03:46 AM
  #605
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Originally Posted by Fly Like a C5 View Post
Interesting. What don't you like about Spooner?
Well, I watched him quite a bit in Kingston and I just don't see it. He has a poor attitude one that I've watched with Anthony Stewart, Bobby Hughes, Radek Smolenak and others that have come through Kingston. He's got great puck skills, and vision. Definitely a talented guy but I don't believe his game is that translatable to the NHL game. He's smaller (I know it doesn't mean much nowadays) but he's not a guy who'd go into the corner on an every game basis. If he's not in the top 6, I don't see him every being a NHLer. Some guy just can't adapt. I watched Ott in the OHL and he scored. A lot. But you could see he could do everything if that was what was asked of him. I don't see it in Spooner. I could be totally wrong, and I know the Bruins are high on him so we'll see. This is just my humble opinion.

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03-29-2013, 03:53 AM
  #606
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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
Sentimentality is a losing mindset in sports. When you focus on feelings, emotions, the past or what have you teams miss the facts, logic and correctly assessing where they are and where they're headed.
I fully understand what you're saying but I have a hard time agreeing. I love football but my main gripe is that there's no loyalty. It's a very different game with non-guaranteed contracts and thus they are inflated but I think that a guy like Modano and Morrow should never be dealt unless it's a Tkachuk situation where you want to bring him back. Like I think the Flames will try to do with Iggy. That's just my opinion and it probably isn't the best for the team but that's my opinion and I respect yours. It's just a different mentality within sport. I think, honestly, it's a cultural difference between countries.

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03-29-2013, 04:01 AM
  #607
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Whitney-Benn-Khokhlachev
Khoklachev isn't really a winger. He's more of a 2nd/3rd line C. He reminds me of a Russian Eakin a little bit with less of a motor. They have decent offensive skills but on a good team they aren't really a traditional 2nd line C. I like him as a player but as I say, I'd rather a guy like Knight with lesser upside but has a better translatable skill set plus I don't think he's as highly touted (pure spculation)

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Old
03-29-2013, 07:36 AM
  #608
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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
I just I don't get it. What does what Jagr did 15 years ago with the Penguins have anything to do with the current Dallas Stars team? Love him for his leadership. Ok. Love him for his production. Sure, but love him because he used to be fantastic and now is good? Really?

Ray Bourque got traded. Jagr's been traded. Selanne got traded. I'm not advocating they treat him like crap and don't tell him a thing till the deal's already done but sit down him with him, conference call his agent and explain where Dallas is. Good lord he's in the dressing room, you think he doesn't recognize a non-winning franchise when he plays for one? Tell him you love him and want him back next year. Tell him to make sure he brings any offers back to you to match because he knows if he's on this team he'll get power play time and lots of ice time and be encouraged in any way possible to spend time with the kids and train with them whenever he wants. You don't tie yourself to a 41 year old player at the expense of the younger player and pick your franchise desperately needs. For 3 freaking weeks you say thank you but here's what we need to do.
You tie yourself to him and Whitney because they are by far the two best offensive threats this team has. Take them away and this team is nearly unwatchable.

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03-29-2013, 09:39 AM
  #609
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The Stars new, cute reporter on the web Ali Lucia interviewed Derek Roy as part of Wednesday's UTSW Practice Report, and Roy mentioned that his agent and the Dallas Stars are talking right now. Previous reports indicated that talks had broken off. Lucia mentioned that Roy is a guy teams are calling about.

Link

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Old
03-29-2013, 10:54 AM
  #610
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The Stars new, cute reporter on the web Ali Lucia interviewed Derek Roy as part of Wednesday's UTSW Practice Report, and Roy mentioned that his agent and the Dallas Stars are talking right now. Previous reports indicated that talks had broken off. Lucia mentioned that Roy is a guy teams are calling about.

Link

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Old
03-29-2013, 11:22 AM
  #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Karp View Post
He reminds me of a Russian Eakin
I want dat!

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Old
03-29-2013, 11:37 AM
  #612
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It is close to the deadline and everyone close to the organization says he will be signed or traded. I don't expect him to sign but they are going to try to sign him up to the last minute. The team needs him as a stop gap for a few years.

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Old
03-29-2013, 12:12 PM
  #613
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What about Noesen? I'd love to have him on our team, and he's a righty. What do you guys think about him?

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03-29-2013, 12:30 PM
  #614
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That Dallas-Boston trade on the main board, Jagr/Robidas has be so giddy. If only it would happen.

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03-29-2013, 12:40 PM
  #615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
I just I don't get it. What does what Jagr did 15 years ago with the Penguins have anything to do with the current Dallas Stars team? Love him for his leadership. Ok. Love him for his production. Sure, but love him because he used to be fantastic and now is good? Really?

Ray Bourque got traded. Jagr's been traded. Selanne got traded. I'm not advocating they treat him like crap and don't tell him a thing till the deal's already done but sit down him with him, conference call his agent and explain where Dallas is. Good lord he's in the dressing room, you think he doesn't recognize a non-winning franchise when he plays for one? Tell him you love him and want him back next year. Tell him to make sure he brings any offers back to you to match because he knows if he's on this team he'll get power play time and lots of ice time and be encouraged in any way possible to spend time with the kids and train with them whenever he wants. You don't tie yourself to a 41 year old player at the expense of the younger player and pick your franchise desperately needs. For 3 freaking weeks you say thank you but here's what we need to do.
As a GM, if have any concern for your reputation and ever want to sign a star free agent again, you have to work with Jagr as equals. It isn't that he cannot or should not be traded. But he was brought here under a premise and I am sure GMJN and Jagr discussed what the terms were ahead of time.

If he is open to being traded to a contender do it. If he isn't, then you hurt your club more, by doing it anyway, than you help it, even with the prospect we would receive. The NHL is full of unwritten codes of conduct. I think this falls under that. You can't screw with Jagr like that without hurting your reputation long term.

It isn't sentimentality, it's strategy and part of the terrain.

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Old
03-29-2013, 01:16 PM
  #616
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Originally Posted by Ambassador Of Fun View Post
Who is 1st overall in 2014? That roster would be awful at an NHL level for a year or two.
And that's different than the roster we have now? Well except this roster would get better and our roster may or may not do that anyway...so...I'm still waiting for the downside?

As for Spooner, yeah they'd probably try to shelter him and give him easy minutes to begin with but Spooner has a higher offensive upside than Eakin and I think eventually he'd end up in that 2nd slot. Also depending on how they view Khokhlachev perhaps they'd move him to the middle and put Benn back on wing, though I doubt it. Either way it gives them options as to who's playing center/wing and adds a potentially fantastic puck mover to the back end in Hamilton.

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03-29-2013, 01:29 PM
  #617
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And that's different than the roster we have now? Well except this roster would get better and our roster may or may not do that anyway...so...I'm still waiting for the downside?

As for Spooner, yeah they'd probably try to shelter him and give him easy minutes to begin with but Spooner has a higher offensive upside than Eakin and I think eventually he'd end up in that 2nd slot. Also depending on how they view Khokhlachev perhaps they'd move him to the middle and put Benn back on wing, though I doubt it. Either way it gives them options as to who's playing center/wing and adds a potentially fantastic puck mover to the back end in Hamilton.
Eriksson and Jagr are proven NHL stars and the pieces we would be picking up are not. I have more of a problem with trading Eriksson obviously. He is part of the solution, not part of the problem.

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03-29-2013, 01:45 PM
  #618
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Hi guys, Kings fan here wanting to talk Jagr and Stars prospect depth. What position would the Stars be looking to bring in kid-wise? Kings could offer one of Vey (top center in Manch, projects as a 2nd/3rd line center in a few more years), Kozun (small guy with great hands/speed and great workethic/mentality... Either makes it as top 6 or maybe 4th line Gionta type), or a handful of D prospects (Campbell could be a 6/7 Dman next year, Deslaurier is a year or two away from cracking the line up, could be a 4/5 guy eventually, Drewiskie if you need a ready-to-go stay at home 6/7 guy), and depending on the quality of prospect, could send as high as 2013's 3rd or 2014's 2nd. Kings will not make an offer involving Toffoli, Forbort, and probably Pearson. We could be convinced to trade Martinez, but we might need a draft pick coming back (as Jagr is a pure rental and Martinez is a proven long term commodity). We also could include Richardson or Penner as a rental replacement to get Dallas through the season.

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03-29-2013, 01:50 PM
  #619
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Eriksson and Jagr are proven NHL stars and the pieces we would be picking up are not. I have more of a problem with trading Eriksson obviously. He is part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Think of it as the Rangers trading Andrus but getting back Profar in the deal. Hamilton is as close to sure fire as a prospect gets. I also think Spooner and Khokhlachev turn into NHL regulars.

Look I love Loui but we don't have anything like Hamilton in our system and we need a guy who could be a top pairing defenseman. Dallas' window may not be during the duration of Loui's contract. I know no one wants to contemplate that but this defense is still light years away and there's no guarantee the kid forwards pan out.

Right now I think they're at least two seasons away so Loui would have one last year on his contract or Dallas has several players under control for 3+ years. It's a gamble anytime you trade a legit 1st liner but Dallas needs to do something different than the same crap they've been shoveling out for the past five seasons.

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03-29-2013, 03:21 PM
  #620
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Hi guys, Kings fan here wanting to talk Jagr and Stars prospect depth. What position would the Stars be looking to bring in kid-wise? Kings could offer one of Vey (top center in Manch, projects as a 2nd/3rd line center in a few more years), Kozun (small guy with great hands/speed and great workethic/mentality... Either makes it as top 6 or maybe 4th line Gionta type), or a handful of D prospects (Campbell could be a 6/7 Dman next year, Deslaurier is a year or two away from cracking the line up, could be a 4/5 guy eventually, Drewiskie if you need a ready-to-go stay at home 6/7 guy), and depending on the quality of prospect, could send as high as 2013's 3rd or 2014's 2nd. Kings will not make an offer involving Toffoli, Forbort, and probably Pearson. We could be convinced to trade Martinez, but we might need a draft pick coming back (as Jagr is a pure rental and Martinez is a proven long term commodity). We also could include Richardson or Penner as a rental replacement to get Dallas through the season.
Vey or Forbort are probably the only pieces we'd have interest in from LA.
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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
Right now I think they're at least two seasons away so Loui would have one last year on his contract or Dallas has several players under control for 3+ years.
So? Sign him to a new contract.
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It's a gamble anytime you trade a legit 1st liner but Dallas needs to do something different than the same crap they've been shoveling out for the past five seasons.
Trading away one of the team's few good players I think would qualify as doing more of the same.

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03-29-2013, 03:31 PM
  #621
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A deal involving a player like Hamilton + other good assets is exactly the type of deal one would hope to get for Eriksson. No, he's not untouchable.

 
Old
03-29-2013, 03:33 PM
  #622
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piqued,

you do realize loui will be a free agent and he doesn't have to re-sign in dallas. if they're still foundering do you think he'd want to be here?

I don't get it. Everyone agrees they're not good enough but no one wants to make moves to improve the team. What exactly do you guys want?

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03-29-2013, 03:34 PM
  #623
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Making moves to improve the team that don't involve trading our good players we're building around. It's not complicated. Loui is loyal, he'll re-sign.

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03-29-2013, 03:38 PM
  #624
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piqued,

you do realize loui will be a free agent and he doesn't have to re-sign in dallas. if they're still foundering do you think he'd want to be here?

I don't get it. Everyone agrees they're not good enough but no one wants to make moves to improve the team. What exactly do you guys want?
I don't know how you hit the cap floor by getting rid of every player of value.

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03-29-2013, 03:56 PM
  #625
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I don't know how you hit the cap floor by getting rid of every player of value.
Wait trading one player, Loui, to get a 1st pairing defenseman and now all of a sudden we're worried about the floor? The cap is going down and they're going to have to fill the roster even if Spooner and Khokhlachev are on the team.

Look I'm not trading Loui unless the return is outstanding and that proposed trade fits that definition to me. They'll find the money even if they have to money whip another vet on a one year contract to hit the floor. 3 million or so is not insurmountable.

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