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Old
03-21-2013, 06:02 PM
  #226
p.l.f.
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how can a star pitcher just suddenly lose it
wierd

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03-21-2013, 06:16 PM
  #227
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Why can't pitchers work on tinkering during bp? Why not treat a Spring Training game like a game situation..

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03-21-2013, 06:19 PM
  #228
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Was Romero working on a sinker this spring?

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03-21-2013, 06:22 PM
  #229
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Was Romero working on a sinker this spring?
I understood that he threw only sinkers during his first spring training start

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03-21-2013, 06:25 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
how can a star pitcher just suddenly lose it
wierd
For one, Romero was never as good as his 2011 season suggested. He got hugely lucky that year and turned was was otherwise a very solid one into a gaudily huge season that he couldn't possibly live up to.

And then his control deserted him last year. Strikeouts plummeted, walks shot up, and he couldn't hold men on base. And because 2011 was so amazing looking on the surface, it made the fall in 2012 look that much worse.

Obviously he should be better than he was last year, but maybe not as much as might be expected thanks to 2011.

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03-21-2013, 06:26 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by donkeyy0 View Post
Why can't pitchers work on tinkering during bp? Why not treat a Spring Training game like a game situation..
because bp isn't a game-type situation. Spring training games are meaningless, which is exactly why they are perfect for tinkering and tweaking with no real repercussions.

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03-21-2013, 06:32 PM
  #232
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Anyone who isn't concerned about Romero is naive, oblivious or a combination of the two. This is well beyond the small sample size/bad luck/throwing only changeups issue. The guy literally can't throw a strike. Unless the mound is about 10 feet closer in Toronto I don't see how its just going to magically change come April.

Even in his awful '11 ST, he struck out about a guy per inning and the walks were bad but manageable. Now he can't even finish a single inning in a minor league spring game or throw strikes 50% of the time.

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03-21-2013, 06:40 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by theaub View Post
Anyone who isn't concerned about Romero is naive, oblivious or a combination of the two. This is well beyond the small sample size/bad luck/throwing only changeups issue. The guy literally can't throw a strike. Unless the mound is about 10 feet closer in Toronto I don't see how its just going to magically change come April.

Even in his awful '11 ST, he struck out about a guy per inning and the walks were bad but manageable. Now he can't even finish a single inning in a minor league spring game or throw strikes 50% of the time.
Wait, so hes been throwing changeups for most of the spring?

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03-21-2013, 06:46 PM
  #234
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I've learned to take ST with a grain of salt. I will judge Ricky Romero in April 6th against the red sox. No sooner.

And even if he struggles, I give him 2-3 more starts before calling for his head and replacing him with Happ.
You have to agree though what he is doing is not promising. He needed a strong showing in ST. He sucked last year. His control is awful.

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Old
03-21-2013, 07:03 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Jozay View Post
Wait, so hes been throwing changeups for most of the spring?
Nah I just mean that there's always guys who work on certain pitches for the first couple starts of spring and get lit up since everyone knows what's coming.

This is a guy using his full repertoire and absolutely nothing works.

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Old
03-21-2013, 07:05 PM
  #236
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Mccown made it seem like hes still suffering from pain in knees and may be hesitant about his elbow

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03-21-2013, 07:07 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
Just to give you folks a rough idea of how some of the best pitchers are doing in spring training:

Verlander: 4.05 ERA in 13.1 IP
Kershaw: 3.79 ERA in 19.0 IP
Strasburg: 4.66 ERA in 19.1 IP
Cliff Lee: 5.56 ERA in 11.1 IP
Halladay: 6.75 ERA in 12.0 IP
Cain: 3.60 ERA in 15.0 IP

These are some of the game's most elite pitchers, and I don't see a single impressive line there.

The top 5 pitchers in spring training right now are: Lester, Maurer, Teheran, Francis, Cobb. Who? Exactly. Outside of Lester and Francis (who is washed up), I haven't heard of any of those guys.

Pitchers try new things, not caring for ERA. Sometimes they will go out and maybe work on one pitch all day, regardless of how they get hit, just to get that pitch going again. ST is not about stats, it's like judging a player based on how good their form looks during the pre-game stretch.
The other thing that must be noted is the low sample size. Pitching about 2 games worth of innings means each run counts as about 0.50 on the ERA. Pitchers who have given up 8 runs so far probably have at best a 4.00 ERA.

Still, it's more than about ERA with Romero. His pitch counts show a terrible ball/strike ratio and he's walked a ton of guys. I think if he had a 7.27 ERA but had 2 or 3 walks, I think we'd take that. 7 walks in 8 innings is worth worrying about, though, even in ST.

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03-21-2013, 07:17 PM
  #238
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because bp isn't a game-type situation. Spring training games are meaningless, which is exactly why they are perfect for tinkering and tweaking with no real repercussions.
But if it's mechanical can't bp be used just as effectively? Like why would mechanical issues or arm slot or whatever only be fixable in game situations

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03-21-2013, 07:30 PM
  #239
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Well in that case its no different than throwing bullpens.

Its true that its easier to practice pitching than hitting since you don't need a hitter, but both bullpens and BP can't replicate having a guy who's up there legitimately trying to hit the ball 450 feet off you

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03-21-2013, 07:35 PM
  #240
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Well in that case its no different than throwing bullpens.

Its true that its easier to practice pitching than hitting since you don't need a hitter, but both bullpens and BP can't replicate having a guy who's up there legitimately trying to hit the ball 450 feet off you
Ya so then you work on it in bull pen. Throw 3000 sinkers, then mix the sinker in in a game type situation so that you know with 100 percent confidence whether the pitch ACTUALLY works vs. Hitters in the situations you're throwing it.

If you feel comfortable throwing your sinker but guys are still clobbering it I don't see how you can be confident it'll work in real games.

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03-21-2013, 07:35 PM
  #241
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But if it's mechanical can't bp be used just as effectively? Like why would mechanical issues or arm slot or whatever only be fixable in game situations
you dont want a guy fatiguing his arm before a game

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:06 PM
  #242
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He is one of our most overlooked prospects. He will likely reach the majors this year and has very hard and nasty stuff. If we were to say lose Janssen and Santos to injury this year, I would not be shocked to see him in the 7th or 8th inning setting up Delabar.
I think we'll see him too. He'll pitch in NH till mid-May is my guess then be up to AAA.

I think the order for pen call ups might be Loup, Lincoln, Stilson.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:09 PM
  #243
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Stop reading too much into spring training. In 11.0 IP last spring Ricky had a 0.00 ERA, and we all saw how that turned out. In 2011, his spring ERA was 7.91 in 19.1 innings, and he was an all-star that year.

Spring training stats have no correlation with what kind of a season a player is going to have. Stop stressing!
I think they'll give him 3 starts to start the season. If he hasn't turned things around, they'll give Happ a shot.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:11 PM
  #244
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Took Romero in my fantasy league come at me

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:14 PM
  #245
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I don't see how the Jays can start Romero with his performance so far. Yes I know, its spring training, but there are certain things that you can tell like Bautista hitting for power (regardless of any stats) shows that his wrist is healthy and there is no need for concern. Romero not being able to find the strike zone is not a "spring training" thing, its a fundamental thing like if an infielder can't take grounders without dropping them. Romero is starting to look more and more like Dontrelle Willis by the day.

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03-21-2013, 09:35 PM
  #246
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Took Romero in my fantasy league come at me
does your fantasy league award points for runs given up?

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:36 PM
  #247
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does your fantasy league award points for runs given up?
Maybe they will let him start on offence and get all those hits and walks.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:38 PM
  #248
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I don't see how the Jays can start Romero with his performance so far. Yes I know, its spring training, but there are certain things that you can tell like Bautista hitting for power (regardless of any stats) shows that his wrist is healthy and there is no need for concern. Romero not being able to find the strike zone is not a "spring training" thing, its a fundamental thing like if an infielder can't take grounders without dropping them. Romero is starting to look more and more like Dontrelle Willis by the day.
This is exactly it. If he was just giving up a bunch of runs it's one thing and I wouldn't put much weight at all into it. It's the fact that he has no control or even worse control at this point that's alarming to me. The fact that he can't stop walking guys and giving up the long ball as well is worrying.

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:44 PM
  #249
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does your fantasy league award points for runs given up?
There's a BB category so I guess I'm tanking that one

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Old
03-21-2013, 09:45 PM
  #250
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Romero will start the year and happ will be the long man. If romero say... walks 4 batters in the first two innings--- promptly pull him and bring in happ before too much damage is done. Ricky deserves a chance but his leash should be incredibly short.

If Janssen starts the season on the dl I see no reason to not keep happ in the bp. Ditch Cecil or Jeffress

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