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Lundy and Carter to get a look flipping lines???

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Old
09-23-2003, 03:57 AM
  #1
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Lundy and Carter to get a look flipping lines???

as per Dellapina.

I know alot of people are looking for Jamie to get a look up with Lindros but I for one think that Lindros needs at least one guy who goes to the net and bangs in some goals from within 5 ft infront of the net and Anson fills that role where Jamie is to slight to do it effectively.

A Rucinsky-Lindros-Lundy line would be too much perimieter play IMO and that doesn't make sense to me.

Also interesting note was him mentioning how unlikely it would be for Lacouture to remain w/Holik due to his lack of hands(cough..Aneirin).

With the depth at forward this year I think they'll be some mixing and matching until guys really find the spot they fit best and even then we'll see some mixing according to game situations.We finally do have 4 lines full of guys that are capable players and this will be a big benifit this year in times of injuries and 3 games in 4 night situations.

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09-23-2003, 04:00 AM
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I don't mind it so much...

the question that should be asked is if Lundmark should be concentrating more on his offense, or should be be worried about what Patrik Elias may be doing, or if Lidstrom's going to sneak in behind him. Carter may be better suited for that role.

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09-23-2003, 04:07 AM
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Actually Lundmark is pretty good at gettting in front of the net. He did it a lot last year and was pretty effective.

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09-23-2003, 04:10 AM
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I'm of 2 minds on it. On the one hand, I want to see Lundmark get as much top 2 line time as possible. On the other, I have to say that I agree w/ JR (somewhere out there, there is a place where every tree just withered) and that placing Lundmark on the top line w/ Lindros & Rosie would make that line WAY too much of a perimeter line. Plus, I thikn that Carter's effectiveness will be pared down if he is placed on a checking line. This guy has been a top 2 line player his entire career, why bump him down?

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09-23-2003, 04:34 AM
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Frankly, I'm not that impressed with anything Carter has done as a Ranger, I haven't heard anything about him through camp and he hasn't done anything in preseason. Tell me again why he deserves a top line spot ahead of the lone goal scorer from Sunday's blowout?

I'm also confused by the perception that Anson plays a gritty, physcial game. Carter's a skater and a sniper. Put him with Holik and let him do just that.

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09-23-2003, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Frankly, I'm not that impressed with anything Carter has done as a Ranger, I haven't heard anything about him through camp and he hasn't done anything in preseason. Tell me again why he deserves a top line spot ahead of the lone goal scorer from Sunday's blowout?

I'm also confused by the perception that Anson plays a gritty, physcial game. Carter's a skater and a sniper. Put him with Holik and let him do just that.
Carter hasn't been impressive in his time with us both last yr and it seems he isn't making much noise this year as well but the fact still remains that his style of play is a better fit with Lindros' more so than any other winger we have unfortunately.

Anson does get the rugged power forward tag which isn't all that accurate but what is accurate is that he does go hard to the net and scores the bulk of his goals from within 5 ft of the net and cashes in on a ton of rebounds and garbage goals which is something desperately needed on Lindros' line.

Anson is a 2-way proven player who was edmonto0n's leading scorer when traded last year.He is a top 2 line player and to put him w/Holik on a 3rd line wouldn't be maximizing what he brings IMO.

Yes, he needs to put it all together as a NYR but to me he and the team both will experience the best results on the Lindros line.

As for putting Jamie there it would be underutilizing Lindros again by placing him with 2 finesse perimeter players.Who's go to the net on that line--Lindros only.Who would crash the net to cash in on rebounds--Lindros only again.

They'd have a tough time establishing any sort of cycle as they'd lack the size and to me they just wouldn't compliment eachothers game well.

If Lundy were to be moved up he'd fit much better on a skill line such as Nedved's but being their meshing so well there is no shot at that nor should there be.

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09-23-2003, 05:14 AM
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Lundmark is NOT a perimeter player. Perhaps he was a bit tenative in his first couple seasons at the NHL level, but Jamie was a nightmare around the net in Jrs.

Also, at this point he and Carter are about the same size. Carter has never had the size to be a real power forward and his injuries reflect that.

There is also this myth that Lindros needs to play with big wingers. Have you all forgotten how great he was with Mike York and Theo Fleury? He and York played great together, they were the best line in the NHL for a good chunk of the season.

York is also great around the net and he's 5-10/185, smaller than Lundmark by a good margin. For those of you who didn't see Jaime in Vermont, trust me when I say he's gotten quite big and strong, and his speed he not been effected. He's also no defensive chump.

All I'm saying is don't count it out before we see it. Carter has done nothing to warrent top line duty at this point.

 
Old
09-23-2003, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crack_puck
Lundmark is NOT a perimeter player. Perhaps he was a bit tenative in his first couple seasons at the NHL level, but Jamie was a nightmare around the net in Jrs.

Also, at this point he and Carter are about the same size. Carter has never had the size to be a real power forward and his injuries reflect that.

There is also this myth that Lindros needs to play with big wingers. Have you all forgotten how great he was with Mike York and Theo Fleury? He and York played great together, they were the best line in the NHL for a good chunk of the season.

York is also great around the net and he's 5-10/185, smaller than Lundmark by a good margin. For those of you who didn't see Jaime in Vermont, trust me when I say he's gotten quite big and strong, and his speed he not been effected. He's also no defensive chump.

All I'm saying is don't count it out before we see it. Carter has done nothing to warrent top line duty at this point.
I'll take your word on Lundmark, but to date he has not shown the tenacity of either York or Fleury.

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09-23-2003, 05:27 AM
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Agreed klinsgor...

he got pushed around a bit and was most effective in the slot. He needs to play with a couple guys that'll open up the ice for him so he can be free to get open for a shot. Unless he's a good deal stronger than last season, he's not likely to be much along the boards. I had originally wanted him to the left of Lindros with Kovalev on the right, which I thought forced a couple things: one, to get Lindros to crash the net, and the other, keep defenders to the center/right side of the ice which leaves Lundmark free to roam. That all left Carter to play with Nedved, and I actually thought Carter and Nedved played pretty well together in limited action.

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09-23-2003, 05:41 AM
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Fletch, what you had suggested made sense to me, however at this point Hlavac, Nedved, Kovalev looks pretty damn good.

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09-23-2003, 05:56 AM
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Yeah, i don't touch the Hlavac-Nedved-Kovie line until further notice. Maybe too much dipsi-dooing for you but they've shown chemistry which is what the team so badly needs. Why mess with one of the only bright spots so far this preseason.

On the Lundmark situation. I guess he'll get a chance on both lines and which ever he clicks with will be where he starts the season. i personally don't have a preference as long as he hopefully clicks with one of them and then stays there for a while.

Although York and Fleury could be classified as grittier then Lundmark i wouldn't say by much and there game was predicated on speed and nice passing. It's interesting that Lindros has had his most success as a Ranger first on the FLY line and then with Rucinsky and Bure. So he can perform well with players that aren't exactly muckers. On Carter, I have little worries about him. He's performed well wherever he's been and has always been a top 2 line foward. I'd expect the normal out of him.

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09-23-2003, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
I know alot of people are looking for Jamie to get a look up with Lindros but I for one think that Lindros needs at least one guy who goes to the net and bangs in some goals from within 5 ft infront of the net and Anson fills that role where Jamie is to slight to do it effectively.
---I've never understood why people think of Anson Carter as though he's a combination of John Leclair and Cam Neely. He is NOT a power forward. Never has been.

And I continue the find all of this talk about finding Lindros someone to do the dirty work on his line amusing. When we acquired him, it was because it was supposed to be him going to the net and being a physcial presence.

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09-23-2003, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laches
When we acquired him, it was because it was supposed to be him going to the net and being a physcial presence.
...and what IDIOT thought he could do that after 6 concussions?!?!....oh wait.

I think what JR is saying is that he's the closest thing we have to a PF on the right side as of right now.

I actually think that Lunmark and Carter play rather similar games when all is said and done. or am I competely off my rocker by saying that? Both have decent speed, can get off good shots, have enough offensive capabilities to score in the mid 20s in goals. Not overly good defensively but not bad. Not overly physical but can get into the corners from time to time and dig out the puck. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if Jamie grew some Dreads in the next couple of years.

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09-23-2003, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Laches
---I've never understood why people think of Anson Carter as though he's a combination of John Leclair and Cam Neely. He is NOT a power forward. Never has been.

And I continue the find all of this talk about finding Lindros someone to do the dirty work on his line amusing. When we acquired him, it was because it was supposed to be him going to the net and being a physcial presence.
What I find amusing is that you chime in w/o reading the full post or you'd CLEARLY have understood that I've pointed out that I don't classify Anson as a PF but rather simply point out that he undeniably makes his living by going hard to the net and scores the vast majority of his goals from withing 5 ft of the goal net.Is there something you don't understand about that?

As for the want for another big body to play with Lindros to do the dirty work when that's what we acquired him for let's think about that for a second----when Lindros was playing the best hockey of his carreer who was he doing it with, smurfs and perimeter guys like Theo, York, Rosie, Lundy or was it with a 6'5 235lbs LeClair and a 6'3 215lbs Renberg?

What is so hard to follow in the thought process of having MORE THAN ONE big body makes the line almsot impossible to contain down low?One guy draws a double team in the corner but is strong enough and big enough to shield the puck away to move it to the other big body who is now in asingle coverage and is also too hard to physically handle down low and round and round it goes.

I guess you never saw the endless cycle the Flyers were able to create with just such a scenario.

Having Lindros w/a Rosie and Lundy expecting Lindros to be the only one able to develop a cycle or play a physical game is just ridiculous and if you think we got him to play with finesse and perimeter guys while he did all the dirty work then I don't know what to tell you other then that makes zero sense.

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09-23-2003, 06:38 AM
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The FLY line was the first thing I thought of when I read the title of this thread.

It's atleast worth a shot in preseason. That line hasn't done anything yet so it's not like we're ruining something good right now.

Lundmark also is more of a goal scorer then Carter in my eyes. He also does get down low, but besides that, it's Lindros who needs to get in front of the net, not Lundmark or Carter. Jamie is not as finesse as you guys think, he's more of a gritty player ala smaller version of Jeremy Roenick.

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09-23-2003, 06:51 AM
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The difference b/w Lundy and Carter at this time is this--

Lundy is more of a speedster, a skilled player who makes his living more off the rush and w/creativity as oppossed to grinding it out and getting to the front of the net.

The biggest shortcoming he has in his game right now is strength on his skates at the NHL level.Too easily taken off the puck and is the type of player at this time that needs other guys to open up significant space for him.Having a Holik and a Simon or Barnaby bulling to the net and digging pucks to feed it to Jamie to handle and then the big boys try to get in scoring position for either a shot or a rebound is what would bring Jamie success.He'd provide the speed, puck carrying and offensive dimension to the line while the other to would do the dirty work and open up space.

Carter is also a slick skater that has good offensive skills but his game isn't all that fancy.He's an underated passer and knows where his game is---within a couple of feet of the net to get shots and cash in on rebounds with a knack for the timely ones.

He isn't a rugged overpowering guy but is very strong on his skates and handles himself well in the corners and infront of the net.

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09-23-2003, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
I don't classify Anson as a PF but rather simply point out that he undeniably makes his living by going hard to the net and scores the vast majority of his goals from withing 5 ft of the goal net.
Again, I have to concur here (Whoa, twice in one day that me and JR are on the same page). I liken Carter to Glen Murray. Is Murray a PF? Absolutely not. However, he drives to the net and scores most of his goals from within 5 ft. No, he does not physically punish people, but he does cycle very well w/ the puck and makes his living by creating havoc near the net.

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09-23-2003, 07:39 AM
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glen murray minus 20 goals.

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09-23-2003, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by jar jar links
glen murray minus 20 goals.
Did I compare stats? I said that they are SIMILAR players.

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09-23-2003, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by True Blue
Did I compare stats? I said that they are SIMILAR players.
in what way they both shoot righthanded? carter is more of a mellanby when mellanby was with the panthers. i personally wouldnt mind trading carter for a good defenseman

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09-23-2003, 07:56 AM
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"in what way they both shoot righthanded?"

In that they are both big, neither is overly physical, and both make their living in front of the net and in the corners.

"carter is more of a mellanby when mellanby was with the panthers"

If Carter was half as physical and mean as Mellanby was, you could make somewhat of a case.

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09-23-2003, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by jar jar links
glen murray minus 20 goals.
Glenn Murray pre being paired with Big Joe struggled to net 20 goals.He had one season that he had 29 I think sandwiched b/w 2 17 goal seasons if I remember correctly.

He exploded ala Leclair when paired with Thornton just as John did when paired with Lindros.

And I agree with TB that they have similarities in their games.Murray has a heavier shot and alittle more goalscoring but they go about the game in similar ways IMO.

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09-23-2003, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by aneirin
'A Rucinsky-Lindros-Lundy line would be too much perimieter play IMO and that doesn't make sense to me.'

Lundmark goes to the net at least as much as Carter and how is this 'bounce back' year for Lindros going to occur if he's strictly 'perimeter'?
Lundy goes to the net at least as much as Carter????

Do you even watch these games b/c either you say these things just to be different or you aren't very observant.

As for Lindros and you perimeter comment, reread it as I never said Eric would be too perimeter but the line as a whole would be.

Rosie while being decent on the boards doesn't play a go hard to the net, grind type of game and Lundy's biggest weakness is strength on his skates.Lundy is a speedster but his game is more off the rush and skating as oppossed to getting open in the slot for chances or being able to stand infront of the net to back in some loose pucks and IMO Eric needs one of those guys to thrive with.

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09-23-2003, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aneirin
Lundmark goes to the net at least as much as Carter
Huh? Lundmark goes to the net as much as Carter does? When?

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09-23-2003, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aneirin
'Lundy is more of a speedster, a skilled player who makes his living more off the rush and w/creativity as oppossed to grinding it out and getting to the front of the net.'

Carter does not grind it out. Where the hell does this come from? Carter and Lundmark both go to the net and both of them get the majority of their goals by receiving passes as they drive to the net. Neither of them pick up the kind of garbage goals you seem to be talking about where the player jams himself into a scrum and keeps whacking away at the puck. They'll both pounce on rebounds and are both quick to see the play develop but this thought that somehow Carter goes to the front of the net and creates havoc has no basis. It seems to me to be more wishful thinking than anything else.

You said it better than I ever could. You are exactly right.

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