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GDT: March 19, 2013 - Cardiac Canes vs. Kitty Kats

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03-20-2013, 03:35 PM
  #451
Blueline Bomber
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
We agree up to this point.




Here, I fail to see how it is Staal's fault that many on his team are floaters. That sounds like a personal issue.
The failures of the team (or in this case, the effort) are a result of the failures of the captain.

Staal himself said it: He's got to be the best player on the ice. He's got to be the guy who steps it up when things don't go their way.

In all 4 games, neither statement has been true.

- Against Washington, OV was the best player on the ice. And when things weren't going Carolina's way, Staal stupidly took an unnecessary penalty.

- Against Tampa, pick and choose one of their rookies. They all played a better game than Staal, whose goal was the only shot he took all game.

- Against the Rangers, Nash was the best player on the ice. When things went south for the Canes (such as getting outshot 14-4 in the second), did Staal step up? Not unless you count losing faceoffs and floating in the offensive zone as "stepping up".

- And last night, Ellis was the best player on the ice.

And no, Staal can't force the rest of his team to score or to not take stupid penalties. But he can lead by example, and when things look grim or aren't going Carolina's way, put forth the effort to make it seem like the game isn't completely out of hand.

He's done it in the past, even earlier this season. The Islanders game from a while back looked grim, until Staal and his line carried the team on their back. Do you remember the first shift of that 3rd period? Staal and his line completely controlled the play, in a way that we haven't seen of late.

Hell, we don't even have to go that far. The Montreal game, where the Canes were down 2-0 after a pisspoor first. That 2nd period was ALL Canes, the entire period. Looking up the boxscore, the shots were 21-5 that period. And it all started with what was probably our last good-looking PP opportunity, Eric Staal being a large part of that. And though we eventually lost that game, it wasn't because of Eric Staal or the effort he put forth.

Like I said, Staal's season on the whole, I'm pretty happy with. It's his play of late that's just mind-boggling, because it's such a stark difference. He's simply not as invested in the games as he's been this season.

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03-20-2013, 03:39 PM
  #452
Hayley from paramore
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Eric Staal is a great leader, I have exclusive inside locker room info

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03-20-2013, 03:42 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by geehaad View Post
Also, Ellis said that some are going their own way sometimes...getting away from the system. I'm willing to entertain the thought that the coaching isn't the issue, if it's because the players are subverting an effective strategy by doing cutesy **** instead of sticking to the system. If you had to hazard a guess as to which players those are, who would you guess? Do you think Eric Staal is a prime suspect, cuz I sure do.
I could get on board with this line of thought as well. We've seen some pretty loosey-goosey play from a few guys lately, first and foremost Skinner who desperately needs to simplify his game if he is going to get back on the scoreboard. Semin has been forcing it for a few games, particularly when he's asked to make something happen standing stationary on a faceoff dot. Pitkanen made a couple of goofball plays that cost us possession. There is clearly a need to tighten things up and get back to a much simpler and more direct north-south style of play, I think we could all agree on that.

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03-20-2013, 03:42 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Amaxing Joni Jokel View Post
Eric Staal is a great leader, I have exclusive inside locker room info
Tripp Tracey doesn't count.

In non-Staal related news, Selleck was suspended for his fight with Westgarth. Didn't realize he left the bench to fight Kevin. Would also explain how he got the instigator, despite Westgarth being a dick to all the Florida players before the fight.

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03-20-2013, 03:49 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
Here, I fail to see how it is Staal's fault that many on his team are floaters. That sounds like a personal issue.
It isn't necessarily his *fault* that others float, agreed. It is his fault that he doesn't *consistently* show them that floating is not the right way to play the game. Where effort is concerned, it's a hierarchy steeped in mediocrity.

Busting your ass to get off the ice at the end of your shift seems like it would be a great example, but I don't know enough about shift-taking in hockey to say that busting your ass to get back on bench is tantamount to hard work. But Eric Staal has busted his ass to get back on the bench about 6 times in his entire career. Does that mean they lose games because of it? No. Does it mean that no other player will bust their ass to get off the ice because Staal doesn't? Dwyer begs to differ. However, it does mean that it's *ok* to not bust your ass.

Furthermore, if Staal *did* bust his ass, and as a leader didn't accept lolly-gagging from others, I firmly believe we would have less concerns with this roster, and the rosters of past seasons.

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03-20-2013, 03:51 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by geehaad View Post
Also, Ellis said that some are going their own way sometimes...getting away from the system. I'm willing to entertain the thought that the coaching isn't the issue, if it's because the players are subverting an effective strategy by doing cutesy **** instead of sticking to the system. If you had to hazard a guess as to which players those are, who would you guess? Do you think Eric Staal is a prime suspect, cuz I sure do.
The prime suspect is Jeff Skinner. Bonus points to Jay Harrison, Pat Dwyer and Drayson Bowman.

Eric tried a spin o rama no look pass (which I think was a set play, b/c if a Panther hadn't got a stick on it, it would have been right to the tape of Slutty/low defender). Otherwise, I noticed him most when he would protect the puck with his body.

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03-20-2013, 03:53 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
The prime suspect is Jeff Skinner.
[sigh] Agreed.

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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
Bonus points to Jay Harrison, Pat Dwyer and Drayson Bowman.
Bonus points...as in "they pretty much do things strictly by the book"? I'm hoping that's what you meant there...

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03-20-2013, 04:23 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
From last night's games:

St. Louis loses to Vancouver
"Compete level in the second wasn't good at all, and that's how they scored their goals," Berglund said. "They were more greedy than we were. We played a good 40 minutes, but the other 20 minutes cost us the game."

Boston loses to Winnipeg
"It's not good enough," veteran Shawn Thornton said. "We should be [ticked] off. It's becoming a habit. It's not acceptable. We've got to have that mentality that we're going to get that next goal, not just hope that we're going to get the next one. It's not good enough. It's happened too often, that's for sure."

Phoenix loses to Los Angeles
"Obviously everybody in this room is frustrated and disappointed and desperate," Doan said. "We have to start with a desperate game, play a full game as desperate as we can. There was a lot of good things in the game, and we've got to take the positives out of it and keep going. We could have just as easily won that game, and we didn't."

Night before last, Calgary loses to Dallas
"I think everyone probably knew it was coming. We sat back and watched. We didn't take initiative and play the way we had to play off the beginning of the game. It's disappointing," Calgary forward Curtis Glencross said.

Colorado loses to Chicago
"One team was playing with lots of confidence, another team didn't, and it definitely showed on the ice," Hejduk said.


These guys are professional athletes. They're trained, often by professional psychologists, to believe that they win or lose based on their effort and mental intensity. You're going to get some variation of "we worked hard to win" or "we didn't work hard and lost" from just about every interview with a player.
Find me a quote similar to this FROM A GOALIE. I think that's the point you're missing here. To have a skater complain about lack of work means he's grouping himself in as part of the problem. Last night, Ellis basically said that he was the only one who punched in. BIG DIFFERENCE.

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“There’s no excuse. Guys had the morning off, we didn’t have to skate or anything, we had all day to rest up, we didn’t work,” he said.

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03-20-2013, 04:26 PM
  #459
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Again, it's been 11 1/2 periods since anyone *other* than a Staal scored. How this has turned into a "blame Staal" fest is beyond my comprehension.

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03-20-2013, 04:32 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
In non-Staal related news, Selleck was suspended for his fight with Westgarth. Didn't realize he left the bench to fight Kevin. Would also explain how he got the instigator, despite Westgarth being a dick to all the Florida players before the fight.
I was laughing when they announced that Selleck got the suspension for instigating the fight. Like you said, Westgarth literally spent his whole shift trying to instigate a fight with anyone when Selleck came off the bench went after him.

Awesome NHL debut for Selleck anyway: two game suspension for a lost fight and a probable concussion.

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Not many players can actually lose money by making their NHL debut. Well played, Eric Selleck.

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03-20-2013, 04:34 PM
  #461
Hayley from paramore
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Having uncoachable players like Jeff Skinner who haven't made a single adjustment to their game in almost three years is as big a problem as coaching or "leadership." I saw a quote recently from Skinner saying that he needs to learn to keep his head up. Why didn't he learn that years ago?

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03-20-2013, 04:38 PM
  #462
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Again, it's been 11 1/2 periods since anyone *other* than a Staal scored. How this has turned into a "blame Staal" fest is beyond my comprehension.
Because despite what you may believe, points aren't everything. Again, in the Tampa game, he scored a goal. It was a completely useless goal (A Ruutu special, if you will), and it came on his only shot of the game.

I don't know about you, but I'd want my captain, my star player, the guy I'm playing 8 million a year, the guy getting 22 minutes a night to have more than 1 shot on goal during a game. Especially a game against a team dressing a ton of rookies, and in a game where the team needed SOMETHING to give them life.

Instead, we had Eric doing jack until he was able to cherrypick a goal in a 4-0 game. Hell, IIRC, Jordan and his line GREATLY outplayed Eric and his line in that game, despite not getting on the scoresheet. That line put forth the effort in that game. Eric's line did not.

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03-20-2013, 04:39 PM
  #463
Hayley from paramore
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I take results over effort 100% of the time. I'd gladly have a team full of lazy, floating Staals if it meant not having to watch Drayson Bowman or Tim Brent ever touch the ice again.

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03-20-2013, 04:45 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by totalkev View Post
Find me a quote similar to this FROM A GOALIE. I think that's the point you're missing here. To have a skater complain about lack of work means he's grouping himself in as part of the problem. Last night, Ellis basically said that he was the only one who punched in. BIG DIFFERENCE.
Ellis also said something similar after his loss to Tampa.

Again, what other answer is there? "Well, we got out-coached, Sangs made an ass out of himself, D-Bo couldn't score on a pee wee goalie, and Skins doesn't know the meaning of unselfish hockey. So we pretty much had no chance to win with this bunch of ass-clowns I play with. Next question?"


Exaggeration aside, that's why athletes don't try to do serious analysis in an interview. There is only one right answer: we have to work harder.

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03-20-2013, 05:08 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Because despite what you may believe, points aren't everything. Again, in the Tampa game, he scored a goal. It was a completely useless goal (A Ruutu special, if you will), and it came on his only shot of the game.

I don't know about you, but I'd want my captain, my star player, the guy I'm playing 8 million a year, the guy getting 22 minutes a night to have more than 1 shot on goal during a game. Especially a game against a team dressing a ton of rookies, and in a game where the team needed SOMETHING to give them life.

Instead, we had Eric doing jack until he was able to cherrypick a goal in a 4-0 game. Hell, IIRC, Jordan and his line GREATLY outplayed Eric and his line in that game, despite not getting on the scoresheet. That line put forth the effort in that game. Eric's line did not.
Points are not everything, however if no one else has any points you can't win a hockey game, especially if you can't play any defense either.

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03-20-2013, 05:20 PM
  #466
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How many attempted shots did Staal have against Tampa?

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03-20-2013, 07:03 PM
  #467
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I'd like to report the ONE good thing that came out of last nights game. Westgarth is on the front page of Yahoo this evening due to knocking out Selleck last night after Selleck instigated the fight. Selleck has been suspended 2 games (1 for instigating in last 5 min and 1 for leaving the bench on a legal line change to start an altercation).
Selleck will have some extra time to recover from his unconsciousness due to these suspensions.

Well done Westy....finally you contributed something.

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03-20-2013, 07:38 PM
  #468
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well..............made the 2 hr drive to PNC last nite knowing damn full well that we were probably going to lose regardless what mike manuscalpo says because of it being our 3rd game in 4 nites--thought we played fair for the most part till our legs completely went away and not that disappointed in the loss but disappointed in the injurys-i believe we could have absorbed the loss had we the ability to rebound against the devils and then rest and take out the jets but losing 27 is making that rebound unlikely--lose these next 2 then you can stick a fork in us. reason i made the trip was that i had free luxury suite tix and let me tell you the free food in the luxury boxes is A-W-E-S-O-M-E! also i would like to say again what i said before the season started and that is JR needs to trade skinner while his value is high-he might be the best overvalued trade chip we have--skinner to the rangers for staal #4 -DO IT JR!

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03-20-2013, 07:48 PM
  #469
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How many attempted shots did Staal have against Tampa?
Near as I can tell (going through the Play-by-Play on the recap), Staal had 1 shot on goal (his goal), and 3 shots blocked. The 3 shots that were blocked all came before the 14:00 mark in the first period. Which means for the remaining 54 minutes of the game, he had one shot attempted, the breakaway that lead to his goal.

But maybe I'm being too harsh. Semin did carry that line in that game (3 shots on goal, 3 attempts blocked, 2 missed shots), so maybe Eric became frustrated with the lack of success on his first three shot attempts, and spent the rest of the game passing to Semin.

To compare, Jordan Staal had 6 shots on goal, 1 blocked, 1 missed shot, and 3 takeaways. You know, something more in line with what you'd expect your star players to be producing.

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03-20-2013, 07:53 PM
  #470
Hayley from paramore
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Shot attempts = effort

No wonder everyone likes LaRose

[/obligatory LaRose reference]

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03-21-2013, 12:09 AM
  #471
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Ellis also said something similar after his loss to Tampa.

Again, what other answer is there? "Well, we got out-coached, Sangs made an ass out of himself, D-Bo couldn't score on a pee wee goalie, and Skins doesn't know the meaning of unselfish hockey. So we pretty much had no chance to win with this bunch of ass-clowns I play with. Next question?"

This is why I wish Sean Avery was still in hockey. Love him or hate him, he was entertaining.

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03-21-2013, 07:12 AM
  #472
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This is why I wish Sean Avery was still in hockey. Love him or hate him, he was entertaining.
I loved Avery, not sure if I would have liked him here, but I loved him being in the league! We need a few more of guys like him.

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03-21-2013, 08:10 AM
  #473
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Near as I can tell (going through the Play-by-Play on the recap), Staal had 1 shot on goal (his goal), and 3 shots blocked. The 3 shots that were blocked all came before the 14:00 mark in the first period. Which means for the remaining 54 minutes of the game, he had one shot attempted, the breakaway that lead to his goal.

But maybe I'm being too harsh. Semin did carry that line in that game (3 shots on goal, 3 attempts blocked, 2 missed shots), so maybe Eric became frustrated with the lack of success on his first three shot attempts, and spent the rest of the game passing to Semin.

To compare, Jordan Staal had 6 shots on goal, 1 blocked, 1 missed shot, and 3 takeaways. You know, something more in line with what you'd expect your star players to be producing.
But if you game plan for the Canes, what do you do? You overload on the 1st line, not just with your top D pair but your checking line as well. Tampa is not particularly deep and there's a good fall off in both skill and physicality from their top D pair to their second which is who typically was out against the JStaal line. Not saying EStaal couldn't have been better but it's not really a level comparison.

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I loved Avery, not sure if I would have liked him here, but I loved him being in the league! We need a few more of guys like him.
Wow. I'm pretty sure the league doesn't need more gutless punks but that's just me.

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03-21-2013, 03:50 PM
  #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totalkev View Post
Find me a quote similar to this FROM A GOALIE. I think that's the point you're missing here. To have a skater complain about lack of work means he's grouping himself in as part of the problem. Last night, Ellis basically said that he was the only one who punched in. BIG DIFFERENCE.
Uhh, I'd say his wall of quotes from just the last night's games was pretty effective at demonstrating the point that such language is common from NHL players during a loss.

Now, find me a quote FROM A COACH that says otherwise.

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