Never ever want the Flyers to lose. I want them to at least try. I'd rather trade Briere, Mez, Coburn, Feds and lose with youngsters who want to be there than what they have had this season.
First, I want the players on the ice to give 100% effort. That doesn't change from year to year. Part of the disaster of this season seems to be that they are out of games mentally, and that needs to be addressed. They aren't cohesive and often just look lost out there.
Second, I want intelligent coaching decisions to be made about good line combinations, who's hot and who needs a rest. This starts to become more fluid as a bad season progresses. We've seen the effects of marching Bryzgalov out for all but 2 games. At this point, there is no reason to overplay Timonen, Grossmann or Giroux for that matter. Brière is a whole other story, as we have beaten to death (the topic, not Brière). I'd like to see a whole lot of Gustafsson and giving him top-line minutes. Hopefully he'll be back up with the Flyers soon. I don't want to see Knuble again
I want smart GM moves and considerations for the current situation. This is the most blatant aspect of "tanking", but it's just smart business to sell high and buy low. There's zero need to add players for a playoff push, but significant value in dealing some for prospects/picks and for cap space. A fire sale isn't needed, but be active in discussions.
Goals right now should be to work with the players to fix what is going so horribly wrong on the ice, while making personnel decisions that will strengthen this team for next season and beyond.
What angers me about this team/organization right now, is the fact that they are going down the tubes, yet Holmgren, (the ******* who assembled this collection of under-achievers) is given clemency.
Holmgren should be fired immediately.
Then his replacement ( Ron Hextall ), could come in and clear up this mess.
Holmgren's replacement will be able to hire a new coaching staff, and sell off the malingering toads who use so much cap space....Briere-Meszaros-Fedotenko-Knuble-Bryzgalov etc.
The Flyers = EPIC FAILURE
Thanks Holmer, you suck!
You don't have to root for them to fail. You can want the team to take logical steps to recognize its short-term situation and build for the future, knowing that that will impact their ability to win games now.
I also don't think its unreasonable to hope that the team can get a long, long look at Bryzgalov now (even if it means losing some extra games) so that it can figure out what to do going forward.
Mostly, though, I don't think it is unreasonable to want the team to finish, say, 25th in the league, rather than 17th. If you aren't going to make the playoffs, you might as well not do so in grand style.
At this point, knowing we aren't going to make the playoffs, then I want this team to finish as back as possible. This is the draft that can actually make this team that much stronger if we get in the top 5. I'd rather finish 30th than 20-25th. I hate this team losing but when opportunity like this comes knocking, you have to look at the real benefits.
I realized we weren't going to make the playoffs weeks ago. Since then, I just want the games to be competitive and entertaining and see that the right steps are made to improve the team long term (sell off some vets, let the younger players play more, etc...). Can't really get too down over a loss anymore.
I'm not rooting for them to tank but lately I haven't been cheering for them either. Some games, I can just tell they are going to lose or they look like they won't be able to get a win. Like last night, I knew they would blow it in the third period. I'm just like blah now, I watch but I can't get enthused about this time. Too much laziness out there. Tired of seeing good players playing halfheartedly out there. Danny Briere is horrible. It's just hard to watch anymore.
Goals right now should be to work with the players to fix what is going so horribly wrong on the ice, while making personnel decisions that will strengthen this team for next season and beyond.
I voted "ok with tanking", but this is what I was more aligned with...
I want player development. If we win as a collateral effect, that's fine, but I want Couturier to get better at faceoffs, I want Coburn to work on the accuracy of his point shot, I want all of the forwards to grasp the notion that the center of the ice in front of the goaltender is the most important area on the ice both offensively and defensively....
This season is lost from a W-L perspective, but there's no reason it has to be a complete loss from an organizational perspective. We need our players to improve for next season if we expect to be competitive.
That said, I do support the GM conceding defeat. Trading Briere, if he'll waive, is a no brainer. Listening to offers on Feds, Talbot, Coburn, Mez, etc make a ton of sense. Even trading a young forward with the recognition that we have a number of viable young, cheap forwards coming up soon could make sense from a cost control perspective if it nets us a viable PMD (even if not a true #1).
There's no question that I want Paul to be calling on Yandle, Buff, etc now in an aeffort to secure players before the offseason. Akin to trading FOR Biron during our previous lost season.
I guess I'm weird but I really don't have trouble wanting them to tank. I want them to win a Stanley Cup. I don't care if they win meaningless games. Rooting for them to lose to the Penguins is going to be tough (especially since I live in Pittsburgh) but when they start losing I become rather indifferent.
I'm not at the point like I was with the Eagles where I was actively rooting for them to lose but I don't have any problems with them losing games.
I'm not in favor of them not playing hard but rather playing guys who need to develop more.
If they aren't in the playoffs they're just hurting themselves by winning more.
I want them to win every game, but I try to balance that with future considerations....especially if those considerations help position them for another Cup run.
It's not that I want them to give up, but if the playoffs aren't an option I don't care nearly as much when they lose.
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Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
The whole notion of tanking is a bunch of garbage anyway. Would the anti-tankers really hate it so much if the Flyers ended up with elite talent that won them a Cup? People can laugh at the Penguins all they want, but the reality is they are laughing at us because it's been 40 years. The bottom line is I am all for what is best for this team and what gives them the best chance to win a Cup. If getting an elite draft pick gives them more chances to win in the future then I'm all for it. In the perfect world I'd want to win every year, but some years are not your year and you need to look at what is the best option for them to contend in future years. To me the best option is to sell off the vets that do not figure to be a part of future runs and to acquire pieces that can help them compete for years to come.
I think you're looking at "tanking" in the wrong light.
This team has glaring issues. Issues that aren't easily fixed. We need a top defenseman that can be the corner stone of our blueline and be built around. We need winger depth, and we need better goaltending.
The type of defenseman we need is not one that is a plausible possibility through FA or even trade which the flyers have relied on for many years (and lets face it, to little avail).
This team is 38 years removed from its last cup. Obviously whatever we've been doing since the , hasn't gotten the job done.
The only team since 2003 who won a cup without at least 1 top 5 pick in the 6 years prior was Detroit in 2008. Boston had 1 (Phil kessel) as well as a couple top 10 picks. Anaheim, Carolina, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, LA, Chicago all had multiple top 5 picks as well as some top 10 sprinkled in that preceded their championships. It's a legitimate correlation to make.
Now don't get me wrong, I want to see my team succeed as much as anyone, and to accuse me of the contrary is simply wrong on your part because its not accurate. However, my opinion is that this team hasn't gotten it done in almost 40 years. Something is wrong there. You need to groom your own players to give them a reason to play for one another, you need to fill the holes that have plagued this team forever and you need to do it through the draft. Do I enjoy seeing my team lose games? No, of course not, but its necessary to the future success of this team.
In the coming days, I will aware Pens fans of the existence of this thread, so that they can make fun of you when you say they're bandwagoners, tankers etc. As much as I hate those guys, I hate hypocrisy even more.
In the coming days, I will aware Pens fans of the existence of this thread, so that they can make fun of you when you say they're bandwagoners, tankers etc. As much as I hate those guys, I hate hypocrisy even more.
Explain the me the correlation between wanting your team to have a high draft pick to better the future and being a bandwagoner.
Nowhere did I say I want my team to purposely lose games. But what's the point of trading for pieces to make a fruitless run when we are not making the playoffs? I for one would rather finish dead last and get the franchise calibre player in the draft, especially this year, than finish 9th or 10th in the east, not make the playoffs, and get a guy who most likely won't make as big an impact as this team needs.
Are people really that thick skulled that they'll gladly accept 40 more years of mediocrity and falling short as long as we maintain our "pride" in that we can say "we aren't tankers! We don't get high draft picks! We just make the playoffs and get bounced in the second round every year! YEAH!".
I for one am sick of it. I want something to look forward to with this team other than more of the same. But does that mean I'm going to throw in the towel? Stop watching games if nothing changes? **** no. I'm as orange blooded as they come, but would it be nice to finally have a prospect like Seth jones who can potentially be the type of franchise defenseman that this team has never had? Absolutely.
Last edited by orange is better: 03-19-2013 at 12:30 PM.
Explain the me the correlation between wanting your team to have a high draft pick to better the future and being a bandwagoner.
Well, you've got a fair point there, and I wasn't implying there is one. I just threw that in, because that's one of the things often leveled at them, and is about as true as labelling the Flyers' fanbase as bandwagoners (or tankers or ...). But just ignore it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better
Nowhere did I say I want my team to purposely lose games. But what's the point of trading for pieces to make a fruitless run when we are not making the playoffs?
What is tanking if not wanting the team to purposely lose games then? If they give their all and lose, that's not tanking, that's losing. And I wouldn't trade for pieces, either, but that's not tanking.
You have to bottom dwell everyone once in a while. Flyers have been playoff regulars for a while. Maybe it's just their time?
Well, I think it's more of a problem that we have all the skill there, but wildly inconsistent play really put a hamper on that. In the 06-07 season, it was quick to assume that we were going to SUCK.
It's never acceptable to tank. You continue to play your hardest, no matter how bad things are. At this point, it's all about mercy at this point and that if it were to end today, I'd be content because I know that means there's going to be some big changes once the off season rolls around.
